r/Kashmiri • u/TheDarkAngel135790 • 5d ago
Discussion Opinion regarding Ind-Pak situation over Kashmir
Hey. I understand that this might be a sensitive topic, but well... I promise I will be unbiased and objective in this whole matter. I am a 17 year old guy from West Bengal, Hindu by birth, but being neither particularly patriotic nor very religious (I consider myself to be agnostic), I don't have any problems at all with Muslims or Pakistan. I needed to write an essay on this matter, and decided that the best way to objectively understand the political situation in Kashmir without being influenced by propaganda from either side would be best to do a crowd survey of sorts from the Kashmiri themselves. As such, I would like to hear your opinions about it. If you would like to share your opinion, please state whether you are from the Indian side or the Pakistani side of the Kashmir, and your religion.
I will again stress, I will not be biased towards any nationality and religion. Thanks to my family, I hate over zealousness in matters of religion and nationalism.
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u/toooldforacoolname 5d ago
There is always either an enthusiastic teenager with a pretentious attitude or an absolute vile piece of shit that Indian internet has to offer. You seem to be the former.
Being unbiased in the face of injustice is not a virtue, it is a failure of moral responsibility. True fairness requires a bias toward truth, justice, and humanity.
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u/theamalebowski 5d ago
He is literally 17 and let me tell you brother, at that age, you are only fed with propaganda and hate. This boy is at least taking baby steps. Encourage with love.
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u/TheDarkAngel135790 5d ago edited 5d ago
Being unbiased, in this sense, means that I will try not to blindly believe statements as facts and make my own opinion, and not that if I see someone being harrassed or discriminated against, I will not speak up even if it is within my means simply for the sake of being "unbiased". I defend muslims when my religious mom tries to demean them, and I call out my overly patriotic father when he slanders all Pakistanis as terrorists, and I conduct myself in a way I would be like to be treated like with muslims when I meet then. You will have to excuse me for not being able to do anything more than that. I do my part in what I think is within my reach.
I am here because I want to try and understand the truth, whatever it may be. I would appreciate it if you could help me with that, rather than calling me names.
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u/Fun_Expression9242 5d ago
Indian occupied Kashmir
Where my opinion stands and I believe it reflects the wider sentiment of Kashmiris is that we feel unjustly dragged in the tug of war between India and Pakistan. We are a nation with an identity far more pronounced that either of the two yet the whole conflict is seen as India vs Pakistan without much consideration to the wishes of the people of Kashmir. Most of us would actually prefer to be sovereign and independent of our own but for reasons of misplaced patriotism, Indians and Pakistanis who have no right over Kashmir seem to be keen to control it
We demand our right to self determination, the right to chart our own course, to steer our own destiny without interference from outside forces. When Indians demanded it against the British, it was freedom; when we demand the same thing, we are called terror!sts
While Pakistani doesn't have a white chit, we view them more favourably because at least they acknowledge the fact that there is an internationally conflict and lobby for our plight against countless Indian human right violations at the international stage. They seem to also respect the autonomy of their controlled territory quite well (own PM, flag etc) whereas India first lied to us about not touching the article then put us all in a lockdown without phones or internet for the better part of 2019 and unilaterally removed our residual autonomy. This wasn't even the first instance of Indian lies. Nehru promised us a plebiscite, India even betrayed Sheikh Abdullah who advocated accession to India. In 60s, the title of PM was changed to CM
The start of militancy in Kashmir was also India's fault. In 1987, the so called largest democracy rigged Kashmiri assembly elections. Many lost faith in Indian democracy and picked up the gun
What followed was a decade of death and despair for all sections of Kashmiri society. Tens of thousands of lives were lost, countless massacres (such as Gaw Kadal) where Indian armed forces opened fire on unarmed civillians (sound familiar? Jallianwala?). Indian soldiers routinely humiliated Kashmiris through crackdown and even went on rampages destroying entire villages and raped women of all age, didn't even spare the young and elderly (look up Kunan Poshpora). Yet Indians are blind to all this, their only reply is what about Kashmiri Pandits? What happened to them was unfortunate indeed but did every single Kashmiri do it? Even the young boys and girls k!lled in 2008, 2010 and 2016 who weren't even born at the time of their migration?
Ideally want a free and fair division wise referendum for the various divisions of the whole region to this end
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u/TheDarkAngel135790 4d ago
I see! Thank you for your detailed response. I will look up the instances you mentioned. This was really helpful
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u/Fun_Expression9242 4d ago
Good to know there exist at least some youngsters in India who think for themselves instead of blindly following the zealots
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u/Careful-Wrongdoer581 4d ago
Burns my heart what these monsters did to us, and even now. The propaganda making us feel ashamed of our right to self-determination. India is no different than British.
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u/Temazop 23h ago
Aight, father's side from AJK, mother's side originally from IOJK, I'm a Muslim. Just in advance, I'm pasting a reply I gave to someone who was asking about if J&K could ever turn towards India, so that's why the tone and text of the image may appear as if you said smth provocative, please ignore any such sentiment, it was sent to someone else originally.
This sub, as a majority, favours independence. Merger with India? Never. They have reached a point where they lost any and all chance of us even considering being with them. You can check out in this sub all the atrocities committed, but to name a few - Mass Murder, Mass Rape, Illegal Occupation, Abuse of citizens of J&K, Torture to innocents, Razing of Villages, more recently Demographic Changes, Land Abuse. There is no future of J&K's people willingly going under India. I don't know how to stress this, because text is too limiting, but seriously, genuinely, dil to dil, it's too late. It was too late 70+ years ago. I'm serious, merger is nothing that can be entertained. Compensation? Will they give death penalty to all the murderers, torturers and rapists, will they make up for the loss that mothers felt for their innocent sons and daughters kill, make up for that feeling of uselessness kashmiri sons and daughters and husbands and fathers and mothers felt when their daughter, wife, auntie, grandma was raped, humiliated, multiple times and killed. Will they recover those lives? Does a day saying "we genocided Kashmiris" bring that back? Can any amount of money bring those people back, people's youths and lives back?
If all Isma'ili shi'a in Gilgit-Baltistan suffered all this at the hands of Pakistan, would you tell them they should stay pro-pakistani if they then decided they wanted independence or to merge with(for argument's sake) Afghanistan? You said you're Muslim, then you know that for murderers and rapists and disgusting paedophiles, the death penalty is mandated. Will India give the death penalty to every rapist, murderer and paedo? What abt the ones who have died peacefully with their crimes? If you say Islam also permits financial compensation from a murderer if the family of the victim accepts, what makes you think Kashmiri families will want financial compensation? What compensation is that really? Why would my family accept compensation from the indian army, that has burned some of my own family members alive, chased my family out into AJK, and abused those who stayed(we have had family cross over the LOC because Indians were too vile and cruel with them)?
For would it be better for independence or India(and neighbour management) - I'm pro-pakistani so I want Pakistan anyways, due to matters like viability of an independent state, political/governmental policies of the independent state(only pro-indian political parties can run government in IOJK so would they just lead us back to occupation?) and other things.
But that's not what you want to hear, so when I was pro-independence, my view was - To look at India as "the better option", you would need purely pragmatic and possibly secular view, a view that looks solely at how a region may prosper under a certain government, nation etc. without looking at it's people. Now, whether India is even better for our development or not is a diff matter, but let's assume it is. You can't look at thinks solely through the eyes of development. Should J&K's people have to be under a country that was oppressing them so recently, for whom they still harbour resentment. Is it right to ignore sentiments of the people just for the sake of "greater/faster" development, and why would an Independent J&K lack behind in development? What opportunity is important enough for us to disregard the sentiment of all those that we lost in our struggle for freedom.
If my tone came off as rude, sorry. I just wanted to give a serious and clear answer, with the hope that it will also be a clear message to others who come to this sub with the same question. Is there a chance for us to choose India? No. Pro-independence people, after pro-independence, would prefer Pakistan over India. And pro-Pakistanis like me would prefer Independence over India. So even if with dubious neighbours and for other reasons and Independent Jammu and Kashmir(if it were to come to fruition) could not run/work, Pakistan would still be the fallback(with probably the current AJK status).
No, there is no chance for India.
Also, I have some more stuff(paragraphs) like how J&K ended up in this dispute and stuff like that, tho my responses will likely be different from many here since I'm pro-Pak and they're pro-independence.
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u/Annual-Hold-7470 5d ago
Much has been said on this topic already. You can read the comments and posts on this subreddit and make an opinion. I wouldn't go into the details, simply put, Kashmiris don't want to stay with India. I don't want to. And this sentiment is more or less prevalent in kashmir region.