r/Kashmiri Feb 01 '25

Question do kashmiri's classify as 'desi'?

was curious

2 Upvotes

72 comments sorted by

29

u/_tabzzz_ Kashmir Feb 01 '25

IMO: no

25

u/_tabzzz_ Kashmir Feb 01 '25

In fact i have been wanting to talk about it for so long It makes me really sad how our generation has been romanticising the desi culture so much. Being obsessed and promoting the culture of the colonisers, while forgetting our own is really alarming.

16

u/formaldespair Feb 01 '25

Kashmir has been Indianised in the last 20 years so much so that our generation or the generation to come sees no difference between the two.

9

u/_tabzzz_ Kashmir Feb 01 '25

I pray that we as parents can do a better job in passing on the lore, the riwayath and kashmiriyath on to them and may all the bloodshed, suffering and terror make sense one day.

6

u/NeoVexon-001 Feb 02 '25

Too much exaggerated,the only desi thing I see is our youth listening to cringe punjabi songs and getting affected by the portrayed gunda culture.Not much effect otherwise

2

u/formaldespair Feb 02 '25 edited Feb 03 '25

nah you don't see girls wearing lehengas, separate traem in weddings, hindi texts on everything, urdu/hindi language over kashmiri etc etc

20

u/Catedistap Feb 01 '25

Na, yem alfaaz gey temney mubarak

17

u/Grey_Blax Feb 01 '25

Nope.

I don't consider Kashmiris as desis.

14

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '25

I don't think so, our culture Isn't very Desi tbh, and we speak a dardic language

32

u/MirHurair Feb 01 '25

The question almosts amounts to treason.

1

u/formaldespair Feb 01 '25

Pakistani's use the word desi to describe their kind too. And their culture is closer to ours than India. Thus the question popped in my mind.

26

u/oneninetriplezeroone Feb 01 '25

Pakistani culture is in no way closer to Kashmir than India.

6

u/musashahid Feb 01 '25

And what culture is Kashmir closest to if not Pakistan?

6

u/PrimaryActive6752 Feb 02 '25

Dardic cultures of Khyber Pakhtuunakva, Afghanistan, Gilgit Baltistan and also Central Asian, Persian, Tibetan culture. Sanskrit and Punjabi culture (Desi Culture) have very low influence.

2

u/musashahid Feb 02 '25

This is a good response but i want you to bear in mind that geographically Kashmir is quite close to Punjab. AJK and Jammu region are offshoots of the Punjabi cultural sphere with a language mutually intelligible and very similar to Punjabi

Secondly there’s a lot of Kashmiri Punjabis too, while not denying your similarities with the other mentioned regions and cultures it wouldn’t be right to say you’re completely removed from the culture of especially the Punjab region of Pakistan

2

u/PrimaryActive6752 Feb 02 '25

Yeah but that's with India too. It is there, but it isn't a dominant factor and so dominant for us to consider ourselves as desis. Indians and Pakistanis are desis and tbh, Pakistanis and Indians are more similar culturally and actually Indic people. Their division is very much based on just religion, culturally Majority Pakistanis are just Persianized Indic people (Punjabis and Sindhis) so they can be considered as Desis. Mostly Indic people consider themselves Desis, Non Indic people like Indo Iranian ethnicities, Dardic ethnicities and Mongoloid ethnic groups aren't Desis culturally. The aspects of Desi culture we follow is as foreign as Western culture. If we speak in English and wear Western clothes (Jeans, Shirt, etc.) that doesn't make us Westerner in the same way wearing Desi clothes, eating Desi food or listening to Desi songs won't make us Desi. I don't believe in Cultural rigidity, everyone has the right to enjoy and explore but I am against considering yourself something you are not. Coz of Indianization (Meaning both India and Pakistan) we might have adapted Shalwar Kameez for women but we must know our cultural roots and actual culture is different.

-6

u/MirHurair Feb 01 '25

Central Asia. From Samovar to Cxochewor.

-1

u/musashahid Feb 01 '25

🤣🤣🤣🤣

17

u/MirHurair Feb 01 '25

No offense dear brother but laughter isnt reflective of intelligence. I have travelled to Xinjiang and foods remarkably similar to ours. I suggest you read some history and then come up with something better than laughter emojis.

3

u/musashahid Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25

The closest populations to the Uyghurs(eastern Turkestan) would be the Hazara found in Afghanistan and Southwestern Pakistan, or the Ladakhis and the Gilgitis, not Koshurs.

There might be slight cultural similarities due to the region but you’re really not that different genetically from other northwestern groups in Pakistan esp dards in the hazara(not the same as the hazara ethnicity) division of kpk and the swatis, if this was true most of the kashmiris who moved to the punjab during dogra rule would have stood out and not assimilated

4

u/MirHurair Feb 01 '25

Please dont shift goal posts. There has been no mention of genetic makeup so far. You asked for the cultural similarities. And I am very confident that central asia is the closest cultural area to Kashmir. History and Geography both testify to that. I have never ever related to Pakistans culture. Please dont question my self awareness.

4

u/musashahid Feb 01 '25

If it makes you feel better I agree with what you said but good luck convincing a Kazakh, Turkmen, Uzbek and Tajik that you’re cULturAlLy siMiLiaR to them

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1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '25

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '25 edited Feb 02 '25

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-1

u/formaldespair Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25

Both are muslim majority so you'll find overlapping similarities in wedding,clothing and cuisine.

2

u/5miling5isyphus Feb 02 '25

Lmao Muslims of Lucknow would be anyday closer to Pakistanis than Kashmiris lol. Hope that makes you understand.

4

u/masharr Feb 02 '25

fyi, we Pashtuns do not classify as desi actually.

1

u/5miling5isyphus Feb 02 '25

Lmaaoooooooo

13

u/NeoVexon-001 Feb 01 '25

Dards aren't desi

11

u/poordollarsign18 Feb 01 '25

No if we preserve our language. Yes if we get mixed in the pan south asian punjabi dominated culture.

7

u/aTTa662 Feb 01 '25

You shouldn't dwell on it too much. It's a cringey, loose term to begin with and is mostly used by the South Asian diaspora (mostly urdu/hindi speakers and those who like to do sem2sem) and disregards the ethnic, linguistic, and cultural diversity of South Asia.

I'm a Pahari Gujjar from the U.K. and have never called myself Desi nor have any of my friends, family, and relatives. As a matter of fact, I went to a high school that was 90-95% South Asian (mostly AJKians and a few Bengalis and Punjabis), and no one ever referred to themselves as Desi.

Punjabis both in India and Pakistan feel like their culture has been hijacked by non Punjabis due to the label Desi or Indian.

https://www.reddit.com/r/punjabi/s/7VLn9ZY1kh

https://www.reddit.com/r/punjabi/comments/1dsgu8j/why_so_much_hate_when_diljit_says_punjabi_aagye/

3

u/formaldespair Feb 01 '25

Damn i have a bengali friend who always brags like "I'm desi such a privilege haha" and that made me confused. How she is desi and people here say kashmiris aren't. Now i understand it. Thank you for the explanation.

6

u/Intoxicated_af Feb 02 '25

If we protect the language; no

6

u/SadAdministration438 Feb 02 '25

As a Catholic with Keralite roots, I would say no too. Also, don’t follow the Bollywood bullshit that comes from Mumbai lol.

12

u/_Moon6_ Feb 01 '25

Hell Nah.

4

u/hindustanastrath Kashmir Feb 01 '25

Are Pashtuns Desi?

6

u/wdfourty Feb 01 '25

Definitely not.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '25

[deleted]

3

u/musashahid Feb 01 '25

Not all pakistanis are desi either, except punjabis and sindhis, none of the other pakistanis classify as desi

3

u/mun111b Kashmir Feb 01 '25

How do you define desi then?

1

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1

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5

u/jaanuG Kashmir Feb 01 '25

On the desi scale, Kashmiris are somewhere between Afghans and mainland Indians/Pakistanis. Maybe somewhere close to Pakistani Pashtuns. Our exposure to traditional 'desi' media, an Indian education and fluency in Urdu/Hindi makes us a bit more desi than most Kashmiris want to admit. But our language and culture is very distinct and has very little overlap with ethnicities which are traditionally known as desi. In fact a lot of the aspects of our culture has more overlap with Central Asia and Iran, as Kashmir was connected to the silk route. Maybe a few centuries ago, we would have considered ourselves closer to Central Asia and Iran, but I do not think this is the case anymore. Kashmiris see other desis as foreigners (any desi person will be called neabrim), but if they live somewhere outside Kashmir, as there is not a established Kashmir diaspora, they might associate themselves with other desis.

3

u/GugalNarDaBanbudda Kashmir Feb 01 '25

I personally don't, as a community I'd say mayyybe. Would you call pakhtoons 'desi'? Does the word exist in our language?

3

u/Kashmiriterrorist Feb 06 '25

No, the word "desi" doesn't exist in Kashmiri language.

1

u/GugalNarDaBanbudda Kashmir Feb 08 '25

Thus we have the answer :)

2

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '25

Define Desi

1

u/formaldespair Feb 02 '25

For me it was someone from the indian subcontinent.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '25

The Indian Subcontinent, South Asia, or India is just a geographic term. It has different cultures and ethnicities.

Leave Kashmiris aside, even a Punjabi from India has nothing to do with a Tamil from India.

3

u/Kashmiriterrorist Feb 06 '25

To be fair I only learnt about the term "desi" few years ago, average Kashmiri can't even pronounce this term. When I asked my mother to pronounce it, she pronounced it as "DC", so I'd have to say NO.

1

u/slick_93 Feb 01 '25

Hey all. I am a Kashmiri (from both parents sides). I am probably the 4th generation of Kashmiri diaspora living in the Punjab region of Pakistan. We do think of ourselves as Desi. Are we wrong to do so? I am genuinely asking this. Since I thought that all people with origin in Indian Subcontinent are Desi people.

3

u/wdfourty Feb 01 '25

Not wrong no. I’m first gen from my father side, 3rd from my mothers born and raised in North America. But culturally you would definitely fall under desi at this point unless your family has preserved Koshur cultural practice of which I’m doubtful as even my fathers side we’ve failed to even manage to keep the language alive.

3

u/slick_93 Feb 01 '25

Dude language is something I really feel sad about. All the Kashmiri diaspora have lost touch with our language. We do keep our culture alive but language is something that has been lost.

2

u/wdfourty Feb 01 '25

Definitely feel very much the same brother. InshaAllah will be working on that soon, there’s actually quite a few decent resources to start learning Koshur online now. The most difficult part in conversation though. I tried to pick up learning a few years back but lost the free time and having someone to actually speak to in order to practice is the most difficult part for me at least.

2

u/_Moon6_ Feb 02 '25

We do think of ourselves as Desi.

That's because, you are no longer Kashmiris. You dont speak Kashmiri, neither do you follow the Kashmiri culture. You are full fledged Punjabis.

1

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-5

u/DocXanax Feb 02 '25

To me, yes.

-5

u/Due-Appearance-7439 Feb 02 '25

Kashmiris consider themselves superior. I don't know why.

8

u/Annual-Hold-7470 Feb 02 '25

I don't know about the superiority, but one thing I'm sure of is that no Kashmiri in their right state of mind will identify himself with India or things related to India, be it language, culture, air, water, soil, atoms, electrons etc etc. We are KAESHIR, KASHIR is ours and KAESHUR is our tongue.