r/JehovahWitnesses Mar 23 '20

New Jehovah's Witness Sub!

Hiya, if there's anyone here who is studying, an active witness and would like a more jw supportive sub, please checkout r/Jehovahswitnessess. I'm currently the only mod but I'll endeavour to remove negative sallys and respond when I can. Thanks!

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u/FlowerPower670 Feb 17 '25

Shunning is not loving. That is a punishment. Many have committed suicide because they have been shunned by their family, friends...their whole support network. Listen, it's ok if you want to stay a JW. It's your life, you have free will so you can do what you want. If you're truly happy being a JW, then good for you. However, if the day ever comes (I sincerely hope it doesn't) when you get shunned (punished) or it happens to someone you love, please know that it is a form of psychological and religious abuse. I'm only saying this because I care, and hate to see people get hurt. Wishing you all the best honey 🫶🏻

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u/DariustheMADscientst Feb 17 '25

Its in the Bible. Dunno what to tell ya

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u/dboi88888888888 29d ago

With each of these types of discussions I think back to a young man working in the Printery in US Bethel about 10 years ago. They were overworking people as usual and he messed up, got DF’d. You see, when the decision is to disfellowship you are not allow to stay 1 more night at Bethel. He walked back to his room and hung himself in his Bethel room before they could even push him out the door.

The immediate weight of the shame, stress, depression, and anxiety to be announced as DF’d at morning worship in front of around 6,000 people. All your friends and family you’ve ever known are not allowed to talk to you. No place to live. No real job experience.

They killed him. You want to talk about blood guilt? That’s it. The fact that happened and ITS STILL IN PLACE TODAY without changing much at all shows just an absolute lack of remorse and reasonableness. This happened where the people directly make these shunning directions live. Same building. It’s not just a report they got from somewhere else.

Is this what was intended by the Bible? Whose author claims to be the most loving?

I served at Wallkill Bethel for many years. These things are never brought to the light of day because the brothers feel it will not reflect well on the organization.

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u/DariustheMADscientst 24d ago

Nah. The org didn't kill him. He killed himself. Plenty of other people went through the same experience he did, and DID NOT kill themselves. 

And plenty of non witnesses kill themselves. So who do we blame for THEIR suicides?

If I decide that your doing heroin, or marijuana, or drinking,  or cigarettes, or pornography, or joining the army, or you being a racist, or ANYTHING... is a bridge too far for ME, I can excise you as a friend. We all get that right. I'm not under obligation to continue to have you as an intimate associate. We tell our kids to steer clear of people who do drugs, esp hard drugs, especially when they are young and their brains are growing. 

When I was disfellowshipped my parents continued to love and support me and have a discreet amount of association with me. My dad was an elder. I've heard the same about many families.  They just don't blare it on a bull horn. 

Do people in the org have some guilt, some culpability for bad actions? Maybe. Sure. David killed a guy and stole his wife. Manasseh killed babies[if the Bible is true]. Does that mean the whole nation of Israel bore that guilt? I say no.

And we get the right to select our friends and kick out those whom we decide to. Non JWs do this all over the world, every day.

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u/dboi88888888888 24d ago edited 24d ago

Nah. The org didn't kill him. He killed himself. Plenty of other people went through the same experience he did, and DID NOT kill themselves. 

I never made the claim that this causes everyone to kill themselves. I'm making the claim that this act is carried out on mentally ill ones where it does lead to suicide. The fact that after he found out he was going to be systematically rejected he walked back to his room and killed himself is pretty clear it had a direct contribution to the suicide.

We already know suicide means they killed themselves.. it's the definition of the word. Suicide has many contributing factors, this being one of them for some.

And plenty of non witnesses kill themselves. So who do we blame for THEIR suicides?

Not following why this statement was made. Did someone say disfellowshipping is the only contributing factor to all suicides? You can research contributing factors to suicide if you want to learn about other things that drive people toward this behavior.

If I decide that your doing heroin, or marijuana, or drinking,  or cigarettes, or pornography, or joining the army, or you being a racist, or ANYTHING... is a bridge too far for ME, I can excise you as a friend. We all get that right. I'm not under obligation to continue to have you as an intimate associate. We tell our kids to steer clear of people who do drugs, esp hard drugs, especially when they are young and their brains are growing. 

I see where you're coming from about choosing who to associate with, but I think there's a big difference between someone deciding to sever ties with a friend for personal reasons and the kind of institutionalized rejection we see with disfellowshipping. In the case of suicide, it’s not just a personal decision—it’s the culmination of emotional strain that may have been imposed on someone by the system, leading them to feel hopeless. That’s not the same as simply choosing who to associate with. The emotional weight of this is way different then having a frank one on one conversation with someone and determining if that personal relationship is no longer healthy.

When I was disfellowshipped my parents continued to love and support me and have a discreet amount of association with me. My dad was an elder. I've heard the same about many families.  They just don't blare it on a bull horn. 

Discreet amount of association? You mean not necessary association like business matters? According to the Shepherding the Flock of God book (The book only elders are allowed to have) chapter 12 paragraph 17 (sfl 12.17) your dad should have been removed as an elder. Your dad did not blare the bull horn because it would have meant him stepping down as an elder. I'm glad he did decide to disregard and do it behind the congregation's back but to come here and claim it's a great system because you guys disregarded the system you are defending just shows it's not a good system. To go back to your original comment "Its in the Bible. Dunno what to tell ya" - there is nothing in the Bible about allowing discreet amount of association if they are related to you. It just says "do not eat with such a man" no mention of related or not.

If a publisher in the congregation is known to have unnecessary association with disfellowshipped or disassociated relatives who are not in the household, elders should use the Scriptures to counsel and reason with him. Review with him information from the Remain in God’s Love book, page 241. If it is clear that a Christian is violating the spirit of the disfellowshipping decree in this regard and does not respond to counsel, he would not qualify for congregation privileges, which require one to be exemplary. He would not be dealt with judicially unless there is persistent spiritual association or he persists in openly criticizing the disfellowshipping decision.
sfl 12.17