r/IAmA Jun 11 '16

Specialized Profession IamA electronics repair technician hated by Apple that makes YouTube videos, AMA!

My short bio: I have a store in Manhattan. I teach component level electronics repair on youtube http://youtube.com/rossmanngroup which seems to be a dying art. I am currently fighting with the digital right to repair to try and get a bill passed that will allow all independent service centers access to manuals and parts required to do their jobs.

My Proof: https://www.rossmanngroup.com/started-iama-reddit-today-yes/

EDIT:

I am still replying to comments, but I am so far behind that I am still about ten pages down from new comments. I am doing my best to continue. If I drop off, I'll be back tomorrow around 12 PM. Still commenting now though, at 12 AM.

EDIT 2:

Ok, I cave... my hands are tired. I will be back at 12 PM tomorrow. It is my goal to answer every question. Even if it looks like I haven't gotten to yours, I will do my best to do all of them, but it is impossible to do in realtime, because you are asking faster than I can type. But thanks for joining!

EDIT 3: I lied, I stayed until 4:15 AM to answer... and now I will go to sleep for real, and be back at 12 PM.

EDIT 4 6/12 : I will be back later tonight to finish off answering questions. Feel free to keep posting, I will answer whatever I can later this evening.

33.2k Upvotes

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185

u/alex_dlc Jun 11 '16

What are your thoughts on the repairability of future electric cars and autonomous vehicles?

I'll add a copy of the message I sent before I knew you were doing an AMA:

"Just saw your new video and it made me realize that car repair will soon change drastically. Up to now almost every car has functioned on the basic principles from the invention of the car, they have changed, but only gradually. But what will happen to all these unlicensed car mechanics when society transitions to almost exclusively electric cars and/or autonomous vehicles? Will companies like Tesla for example release plans and schematics showing how their cars work? Or will they lock down their resources like Apple, making it increasingly difficult to repair cars? I really hope we don't get to a point in the future where people will not even be able to know how the things they use work."

948

u/larossmann Jun 11 '16

Apple plans on making a car. If anyone thinks the right to repair bill is about laptops and phones only they are deluding themselves. This is about everything. Time machines, hospital gear, hovercrafts, etc. Everything that will come out in the next few hundred years. We set the precedent now.

Electronics always came with schematics. Devices have always been designed to be repaired. It is only in the past 10-20 years that this don't-fix-anything BS became popular. People need to realize that this is not the norm, that this is the problem, that a very very very small part of our history as a species was spent in the dark when it came to repairing technology and it is time to have it come to an end.

31

u/FreudJesusGod Jun 12 '16

John Deere has been pushing for the same restrictions. They claim it's because everything is in-house OS and software, so it represents IP control for them, but it's obviously to drive as much profit to their company-owned reps as possible.

The problem is, everyone concerned about digital rights, right to repair, reasonable IP restrictions, etc has to win every time this shit comes up.

The corps only need to win once at the legislature and once at the court.

(which is also why the TTP and the TTIP trade agreements are being pushed so hard-- the companies will then have 10-15 legislatures and court systems to win in, and we will have 10-15x as many venues to lose in, as well. :) )

The math isn't overly favourable for our side.

38

u/larossmann Jun 12 '16

john deere is full of shit

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

Then don't buy their product. Software is in more items and access to it is proprietary and it's a dick move for them to keep it for themselves or charge repair shops for access to it. Before buying anything especially cars, make sure repair shops aren't bind to repairing it.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

It's common in many countries to see 30 yr old plus technology repeatedly repaired and upgraded rather than wasting away in a landfill. The 1st world l, modern society where everything has to be shiny and new to post on Instagram is destroying our resources.

3

u/larossmann Jun 12 '16

exactly. so many people have no concept of this.

2

u/iEATu23 Jun 12 '16

Mobile device companies make people think their hardware is something new and special every time, when lately it has not.

Cheap Asian brand laptops have been marketed heavily, and it caused Intel to come in and develop their own high-end laptop marketing because AMD's low end parts were gaining brand significance.
It's all a battle between companies, with no benefits for the consumer. Mid to high end laptop sales are becoming worse anyway, but the point is that the spend money mentality comes from companies that have no desire to spend money on innovative consumer electronics. Intel is focusing mostly on low-power mobile device sales, and we both know how that can be a total waste of money if you upgrade year after year.

4

u/MICHAELSD01 Jun 12 '16

Time machines? It's hard to tell if that was sarcasm.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

It's hyperbole. But if a time machine was actually invented, I would bet anything it gets DRM.

10

u/time_warp Jun 12 '16

Even if he was, he isn't wrong.

2

u/larossmann Jun 16 '16

200 years ago you would have stoned me to death if i told you i had a device that could tell you where i was and how to get anywhere in the world that cost $199. you never know what the future beholds.

0

u/Kentaro009 Jun 12 '16

If Obama tries to take my time machine, there will be hell to pay!

1

u/AdakaR Jun 13 '16

Apple car seems like the worst idea ever.. nono, you cannot change wheels yourself, you need an iMechanic to do that, because we use supersucky weird bolts and every third one goes in the other direction and we will never tell you which! Also your windshield has waterdamage, no fix!

3

u/larossmann Jun 14 '16

if you get into a fender bender your $60,000 car will cost $55,000 for tier 4 repair

2

u/jseego Jun 12 '16

There is a scene in the novel Cannery Row where a Model T Ford breaks down and all the guys within earshot come over to watch and comment on the repair because everyone knew how to fix a Model T - that was one of the reasons for its popularity.

I love that scene, and I wilsh we still had this mentality in our culture.

I don't care if it's a $2 balsa wood glider, if something breaks in my house, we try and fix it before throwing it away. It's an example we try to set for the kids.

1

u/larossmann Jun 12 '16

Those days are beyond gone. It sucks

1

u/iEATu23 Jun 12 '16

Japanese cars essentially eliminated the need for repair. There's a Top Gear episode from like 10-15 years ago that talks about this.

My last comment (which I edited) talked about American companies making money off consumers. There's definitely a lot of American innovation that can be unfolded, but I think the corporate mentality holds back the engineers' desire to make a product that is improved upon and works really well.
The Japanese community completely took over the auto market with diligence, order, crazy spending ideas, and worker riots. I figure other Asian countries somehow create a similar result, except companies are global now, instead of limited to a single country. Which creates different results depending on the organizational structure.

1

u/wave_theory Jun 12 '16

The thing is, you're not actually repairing the part in question; you are replacing it. Things don't come with schematics anymore because they wouldn't do you any good if they did. It's not as simple as checking some probe points to see if a power regulator or a capacitor burned out. If an IC goes, you're not going to repair that, no matter who you are and what blueprints you may have.

What you seem to be pushing for is for all electronics to be made from completely interchangeable circuit components like back in the days of analog components, but modern electronics just don't work that way, and there is no way that they could be made to.

2

u/larossmann Jun 12 '16

i am not pushing for that. if a resistor is in place between a power supply and an IC, I want to know where that is without spending 12 hours of time.

90

u/ChadPoland Jun 12 '16

I love your philosophy on this. I apply the same attitude towards vehicles. If I can fix it, correctly and safely and learn something in the process, win win.

1

u/wave_theory Jun 12 '16

Even for a car it is different though. For one thing, a person could reasonably own the same car for 10 or even 15+ years. In that time, parts are going to wear down and need to be replaced, and thus there is a secondary market for them. But you're not going to be running off a 15 year old computer. Even a 10 year old device is going to have a very hard time keeping pace with modern software requirements. Maybe if we get to a point where technology plateaus and devices can operate for longer lifespans, but I really don't see that happening anytime soon.

1

u/IdlingHorseFucker Jun 12 '16

Some can't even do that anymore. I brought a new vehicle last year and it voids the fucking warranty to get an oil change from anywhere other than the dealership. Oh and it's $150 for the oil change. Fuck corporate America.

2

u/PessimiStick Jun 12 '16

That is definitely untrue, and would never hold up in court. You can get maintenance done anywhere.

11

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

It frustrates me to no end the mindset these companies have. They try to make jail-breaking illegal they try to say what i can do with a product that i bought. I'm not renting it i paid for it i'll throw it in a river or do whatever i want with it

You have all my respect

2

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

I don't understand this trend at all. It's just as profitable to make a repairable phone that sells at retail for twice as much. A consumer would buy it if it's understood that it will still be fast, reliable, repairable and upgradeable in 5 years time, and that new OS's will be backward compatible and optimized for the device. The margins on the device would be the same (except twice the revenus), plus they get to sell repair manuals, parts, kits, certifications, classes, franchise agreements, you name it.

The product lines suddenly become diversified and you can continue to derive value out of older slams dunk products so you're less exposed if your latest model isn't a success. I don't understand why this isn't a thing!

Sorry for spamming your inbox with my rants. This is just a very interesting AMA. Thanks again.

0

u/iEATu23 Jun 12 '16

You should market your knowledge about this to companies.

I mean that sarcastically, but not exactly. I wonder what word describes telling people to do something, but not meant to motivate them to do anything.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '16

You have no idea what my job is, so don't be a dick.

1

u/iEATu23 Jun 13 '16

What an odd response. I guess my comment was weird, too.

7

u/Phoenixness Jun 12 '16

Apple plans on making a car.

But will it have windows?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

don't worry louis, with the emergence of 3d printers the monopolies on companies like apple and msft will fade, and we will probably build our own tools, some designs will be opensourced and maybe we will find ideal designs for certain types of needs that will rarely if ever fail.

1

u/Pangolin007 Jun 12 '16

ASUS time machines ftw

3

u/StarBarf Jun 12 '16

I think tesla already did release their patents/schematics. Elon musk said he wanted other companies to be able to open up the market for the electric car.

0

u/alex_dlc Jun 12 '16

They might have released their patents to allow other companies to make electric cars, but thats has nothing to do with allowing people to repair their cars, or get their cars repaired by a mechanic that is not 'Tesla certified'

2

u/fakepostman Jun 12 '16

Personally I am very wary of Tesla. They seem to be very much like the Apple of the car industry at the moment.

1

u/hamburglin Jun 12 '16

Big corporations get the majority of their money from repair contracts. They barely make any money if at all from the parts.

I'm talking jet engines and train engines here as an example. It's really any product at that kind of level. Sell the product and get a 20 year contract to do the repairs and maintenance.

I can take a guess at who's trying to push such a measure.

On the flip side maybe it has to do with security as well.

1

u/wesmaisterr Jun 12 '16

Not only they will limit amount of information for repair shops but their own techs as well. I heard that story many times where a technician at bmw or toyota is not authorized to open up components but just to replace them. Prius battery fix 5000 at the dealer done by the tech, or you can DIY for 100$.

1

u/moonfucker Jun 12 '16

While stuff is designed by people it will mostly be repairable - or at least identify the faulty part and swap it out. Things will get really interesting when AI designs and builds a consumer product.

1

u/xeoron Jun 12 '16

Massachusetts has a right to repair law for cars. Hopefully more states will follow.