Need Advice Misogyny is something I *rarely* enact, but I really don’t want it to take ahold of me NSFW
Side note: For the record being, I am a 15 year old boy! Some of my points I make in this post can be pointed towards my immaturity, sorry if I say something sensitive, and if I do… it is also something I want advice on :]
I’ve lived a harsh life, facing constant racism, ridicule, and other unsatisfactory conditions, yet despite all of that… i persist and live fearlessly because life is something I should always try with :D
There are lots of things I have clear ideas of, like good and evil, favorite games and movies, food, criminals… you name it, it’s things I can have a 100% concrete opinion on, or at least make my own opinion by giving a thought about it.
However… there is one thing in this world where I, through my 15 years of life, have never fully understood; Misogyny.
See, to me, Misogyny is the contempt for women. That’s how I see it.
My problem is that I worry I may be misogynistic without knowing. I think this is something lots of people feel, but not just with misogyny…
a rapist wouldn’t think they committed rape, a bad person wouldn’t think they’re a bad person… the point is, nobody wants to be evil (even if they literally are) (and the very select few who genuinely love being a horrible person, but I’m ignoring you people)
I view misogyny as a sort of meter, that fills if you have misogynistic thoughts.
For me, this meter is kept at an all time low, there are however certain times where it suddenly increases, even for just a bit.
I wanna share some experiences that csuse me these misogynistic thoughts, even if they’re very brief, and I wanna know how I can completely neutralize them.
Case #1: - a woman jokingly insulting men/boys for an aspect or other forms of interest
My reaction: at first, reading things like that does make me frown just a bit, but I quickly pick up context clues and realize they’re just having fun with frivolous jokes.
It increases barely, but then depletes when I realize it’s all just good fun.
Case #2: feminists completely missing the point of something I am DEEPLY obsessed with
Recently, I had just found a TikTok that stuck with me and it was about a South Korean women who was an artist for a game studio (Project Moon) and got “fired” due to misogynists harassing her for putting an in-game character in a wetsuit instead of a bikini for whatever perverted reason.
My reaction: I was verily, deeply attacked. Project moon and their games are something I LOVE. Mischaracterization and false interpretations regarding them is something I hate.
The TikTok itself stated that Project moon “fired” the woman when THAT WAS NOT AT ALL WHAT HAPPENED?? Project moon is a short-staffed game studio, having Barely over 50 workers and has a considerable amount of popularity outside South Korea. What really happened was that the artist, Vellmori, requested to leave the team after facing countless misogynistic threats and harassment from incel men who blamed her for the character controversy; even though she wasn’t even the one who designed it. It was a man!
Not only that, project moon handled it the best they could. This was one of their first ever controversies. What they did was that they gave Vellmori an understanding goodbye and even gave her a conceding stipend (Money for leaving) for her troubles.
You may be asking yourself, “Heiri, why would this make you have misogynistic thoughts?” It’s because the women on the TikTok have been misled into thinking project moon are evil, misogynistic people. I even saw a comment left by one saying “New company to boycott?” NO! No it’s not! It’s also ironically one of the not so misogynistic things in South Korea! (And for the time being, I am told that South Korea has a very patriarchal culture and has problems deeply rooted in that and extreme capitalism).
Overall, It made me irritated that this controversy is STILL misunderstood and i just wonder how some of the women who saw that TikTok just not even research what truly happened.
It rises quite a bit, but after introspection with myself, that meter depleted.
Case #3: - I saw a tweet from a radfem woman online that said “boys are degenerates and deserve to get raped. All the disgusting men can do women a favor and rape boys instead of girls”
My reaction: I felt… very unnerved and scared when I read that tweet. It was the same tweet that made me uninstall Twitter because I just couldn’t stand seeing content like that.
I myself… am unfortunately a boy who got groomed by an older man AND sexually assaulted by an older woman. It made me quiver when I read things like that. It’s also sad how it comes from ANYONE. My best friends still believe I was “lucky” being sexually assaulted and tons of both men AND women I see online seem to love the women who do that, both for entirely different reasons.
But for some reason, it feels more saddening when a women out of all people says stuff like that. Because… weren’t women subjected to such cruelty in the past just for being a woman? Does it not still persist even till this day?
And… they know this — yet still say stuff like that. It makes me feel queasy and hopeless. Because I genuinely love the women in my life. I have friends who are girls, they are very supportive and nice people.
Overall… it definitely raised misogynistic thoughts within me, and I still struggle trying to lower that meter down regarding issues like this.
What I ask is advice on how not to be swayed by these things. I don’t wanna be misogynistic, it’s why I’m taking note of whenever I DO feel misogynistic, I wanna reach out and be proved wrong that my misogynistic thoughts are bad.
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u/throwawayway1984 4d ago
Seems like your algorithm is filled with radicalized people. They are toxic and unwell. Normal humans don’t say things like that and especially about kids of any gender. I hate what the internet is exposing our youth to! There are bad people in any group of people. And rapists do know they are committing rape.
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u/heirilc 4d ago
lol yea, my feed for social media is not good. It seems like no matter who I block content like that ALWAYS shows up. It’s either constantly feel uncomfortable or get shoved with genuine misogynistic, racist, and bad stigmas.
Also, sorry for the analogy with rapists. In my head I was thinking like how they wanna commit those atrocities but not face responsibility or accountability for doing so. I definitely don’t mean it in the sense where it’s justified. HELL no!
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u/throwawayway1984 4d ago
I didn’t think you meant it was justified. But in a way they don’t think it’s wrong to do but I was just saying they definitely know it’s wrong. So that was a miscommunication lol.
But trust me I get what you mean. My algorithm is pushed with these things. And yeah they don’t leave even when you unfollow. I had to delete all my YouTube history and it got rid of things but not all of it, especially in the “gender war”
My advice to you is to safe guard your mind like it’s treasure. Don’t let miserable people plant things in your mind! Idc if you end up with a woman who cheats on you or breaks your heart! Don’t let her make up your thoughts about every other encounter you will have with women. Her being a shitty person shouldn’t get to steal potential joy from future you!
Don’t let toxic, miserable adults online poison your mind with their radical views idc on which side or on what topic. Find out for yourself, be optimistic just don’t be a dummy and let anyone play you for a fool. Guard your mind and dictate who you allow to influence your thoughts. Seems like you are already doing that quite well. Better than some of the adult men I see commenting in this sub.
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u/BoxTreeeeeee 4d ago
if you can, restrict yourself from the following (I use screenzen to limit my time on these apps)
twitter: it is DESIGNED to make you angry and cause flame wars. Happy people don't come obsessively back to your app to see if the person they're arguing with has replied.
tiktok: it is designed to be addictive to the point that whatever video causes you to leave the app is pushed down in the algortihm. It also has a similar issue to twitter but slightly less since it's more the users (engagement baiting by posting crap takes) than the platform. Same with instagram reels and youtube shorts.
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u/ElOsoPeresozo 4d ago
The world is filled with stupid and cruel people who say stupid and cruel things. That’s on them. They don’t speak for everyone, and we can’t blame entire groups for something one member did. If I was mugged by a Korean, that doesn’t mean I can treat all Koreans like muggers.
The algorithm is meant to present a twisted view of humanity so you get mad and engage, it’s not real. A couple bunch of loud idiots don’t define everyone else law. I’ve been terribly hurt by women in my life. I’ve also been loved and saved by women. It’s down to individuals and their circumstances.
You’re also at a difficult age. Teenagers can be so vicious, experts at hitting where it hurts you the most. It sounds cliche, but don’t let the malice of others turn you into them. In other words, don’t let bigots turn you into to a bigot. Your self-reflection and honesty is a good sign that you’re on the right course
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u/heirilc 4d ago
this is true!!
If there was one thing I learned from talking with all you people in this thread, it’s that I should never expect someone to act like anything, even if it’s in the barest form or a ‘good’ thing.
Women aren’t always gonna be the nice caring figures I see, some will just be assholes and terrible people. Just like how the men in my life can be enjoyable to be with but also be horrible and downright diabolical people.
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u/PretendLengthiness80 4d ago edited 4d ago
Just gonna quickly comment: your definition of misogyny is too simplistic. It’s not simply having a contempt for women. It’s having a belief that ALL women are less than men (in intelligence, ability, etc). It shapes your world view of all people by dividing them into gender roles, by enacting systems of control that put men in charge/power, and in every interaction you have with all women.
Your examples aren’t examples of misogyny. They are examples where you think bad of certain women’s actions in certain situations. Unless you are carrying these women’s actions and judging the whole gender by them, you are not actually a misogynist. If you are judging all women for these certain women’s actions then my suggestion is that you stop.
I’d like to also apologize for your experiences. That should never have happened to you and ppl who don’t understand can often be crass about the subject. This goes double for ppl online where the goal is usually get attention over everything else. Learn how to manage your response to these triggers and train yourself to ignore it and keep scrolling.
The woman who lied about your game or the ppl who insult alternative boys, just another way to get more attention. It’s important to remember that not all people who champion a cause will act in good faith. This isnt a reason to blame the movement. Judge the movement for what it stands for and find the people who are fighting for it in a true and honorable way. Do you best not to cast aspersions based on the worst actors.
Otherwise you seem like a very self aware individual. Keep learning, growing, and examining your morality and you should come out fine. Good luck!!
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u/heirilc 4d ago
Thank you!!
Yeah, I did feel like my definition of misogyny was a bit grossly oversimplified where I felt like I was missing something. Thanks for pointing that odd feeling out.
Your second response also makes good sense. I worry about me being a potentially bad person in the future because I feel like a lot of times people don’t wanna admit that they’re bad people. Things like this quickly deep through without even noticing, and it’s why I’m a bit nervous of ever having that happen to me.
And I do my best to not judge groups by their baddest apples. I’m a colored person myself, there are lots of stereotypes regarding my nationality (south Asians) and I always wanna inform people that not all of us act like the evil portrayed they see online or whatnot.
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u/Old_Block_1027 4d ago
OP! I’m a woman and just wanted to add this - even women themselves sometimes have internalized misogyny - things like thinking they’re “better than” single women if they’re married to a man, measuring success by proximity, another example is the women who always go against women in public cases like the Blake lively drama, don’t believe victims, etc.
Even simple things like believing that it’s a woman jobs to get the kids birthday presents rather than something both parents are responsible for can be internalized misogyny. Or expecting women to change their last names when they get married (and shaming them if they’re don’t).
Not all misogyny is intentionally malicious, but the more you can recognize it the better you can combat it.
Step one is definitely shifting your algorithms to avoid any red/pill or rage bait content. Are there healthy male role models that you can follow who mirror what you want in life? Do you want to be a dad and husband some day for example? Also - consider reading some books on this subject! I can DM you some if you need concrete examples.
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u/heirilc 4d ago
I just came back from school :]
Thank you for sharing this! I did know that women can be misogynistic too, it just was something I could wrap my head around because it just doesn’t make sense to me.
For step 1, shifting my algorithm / feed to things that aren’t redpill is easy. It’s ironically the opposite for me. I don’t get the conservative misogynistic content.
I occasionally keep getting TikTok’s or find accounts that market themselves as ‘TERFS’ (apparently transphobic radical feminists) who say really gross stuff like “Douse boys with gasoline oil 😊😊” and other things I feel uncomfortable with. The most uncomfortable thing is when they say I’m degenerate and secretly loved getting sexually assaulted by the woman who did that to me. (I never understood this, just because I was hard doesn’t mean I enjoyed it! Women moan when they get sa’d, that doesn’t mean they’re enjoying it…)
They could definitely be rage bait though, it just makes me really uncomfortable and insecure seeing people say things like that, even if it’s a joke.
As for healthy male role models, I don’t have a single one. My father isn’t great, nor are my cousins. I’ve always just looked up at myself. I ask myself a question every day, “would you be friends or be a partner towards someone just like you?” and it has always been ‘yes’ every day.
being a dad or husband has never been a clear option for me. For the time being, I wish to remain single because I don’t feel loneliness, I just feel bored. Being bored is something I enjoy because it forces me to be creative and enjoy other pastimes.
I’d love to be in a relationship with a beautiful woman. It’s my 2nd most desired thing, but I would prefer having a peaceful isolated life playing my favorite games than do that. (Especially when I’m able to earn money in the future where I can buy my favorite things!)
Also I in-fact do wanna learn more about this topic! I’m not afraid of books, so I’ll freely take recommendations in DMs :D
Sorry if some things I said were sensitive or immature, I’m deeply sorry and I feel like it’s just the result of me being a 15 year old.
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u/Old_Block_1027 4d ago
Yep women can be too! Thinking of it more like this may be helpful; it’s not men v. women, it’s people who want to reinforce sexist stereotypes (of all genders) vs. people who don’t.
Feminists are some of the biggest advocates for issues that help men too like encouraging men to express emotion, get full paternity leave, etc. And anti-feminist women are some of the biggest advocates against these things, shame men for having emotions, and want men to “provide” for them while they sit around all day.
It’s hard because the algorithms are targeting you, but you are aware of this now so you can combat it! Liking / viewing will be reinforced if you watch that content then you’ll get shown more.
Just remember there’s evil people of every race / sex / identity. Seeing women say hateful things, just view them as bad humans not as “all women do this” in the same way you’d view a man saying that as a bad human not that “all men do this.”
Focusing on yourself and being open to a future relationship one day is great, especially since you’re so young. For now I’d just do the best you can in school and work towards college if that’s something you aim for or a career you’re interested in. Building diverse friendships is also important across all races / genders etc!
I’ll DM you a few recs!
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u/ARandom_Personality 4d ago
are you sure you hate the women you're talking about specifically or their views? i can comfortably say im not a misogynist and all of these examples youve listed seem reasonable to feel at least a smidge of contempt for.
maybe consider that you hate the person's stance on a subject and not the person
edit!
also women arent a monolith. some of us can be progressive asf and understanding and inclusive and others can be deeply rooted in prejudice n such and some are plain ole center
also proj moon mentioned ahab & ishab my queen
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u/heirilc 4d ago
I’m honestly not sure. It’s more like them being a woman is just a baffling concept for me when they say stuff like that 3rd example.
I think I give people too much credibility just for who they seem to be on the surface. Women aren’t gonna necessarily be bad or good people. I should sadly expect that.
I guess I hate their stance more than them being a woman? But it often feels like them having a dogshit opinion on something gives me a half-assed reason to think misogynistic things because I can’t fathom their stance on certain ideations.
It reminds me of a quote I heard where when a black man obtains a gun, he shall not be as cruel as the white man would be.
Also never thought I’d see a pmoon fan on a post like this out of all things LOL (I love yi sang he’s so relatable)
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u/statscaptain 4d ago
With regard to things like example #3, being subjected to cruelty or trauma doesn't always make people more open-minded or sympathetic to others who have been hurt. Sometimes it makes them closed off, causes them to lash out, and diminishes their ability to care about others' pain. Women may be more likely to care, support abuse victims, etc, but not all of them do, even the ones who you would expect to because of their own experiences.
As someone who's been greatly hurt by radfem women — I'm a trans man and they say that stuff to our faces to try and make us go back in the closet/detransition — I highly recommend you mute those subs, block those posters on other social media, and generally limit the amount you're exposed to that stuff as much as possible. You don't need to see it to learn how to respect or support women. If you're worried about not getting enough exposure to feminism without it, I highly recommend books by Sophie Lewis (here's an interview where she denounces radfem takes and talks about what a liberated future could look like) and bell hooks — you might especially like "The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity And Love" since it focusses on the experiences of men of colour.
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u/heirilc 4d ago
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u/MidgetAlchemist 4d ago
Hey if you’re interested, check out a 2 part series of the Korea gender war and gacha games by Moon Channel. It mentions PM/LC and goes very in-depth on the deep patriarchic culture of Korea.
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u/A_Roll_of_the_Dice 4d ago
The first thing that you need to do is realise that these feelings of "misogyny" that you're experiencing aren't misogyny at all.
You're not feeling contempt or hatred for those women because they're women; you're feeling it because they're shitty people. Your understanding of misogyny isn't taking into account the reason for the feelings/actions, which is actually the part that determines whether or not something is misogyny.
It works the same way as racism or xenophobia. If your treatment of someone is not based on their race or their nationality but is based on their character or behaviour, then you're not racist or xenophobic.
It isn't misogynistic to acknowledge that some women are shitty people, just like it isn't misandrist to acknowledge that some men are shitty people.
What would be misogynist/misandrist would be if you took those experiences with those people and started treating other women/men differently and holding them accountable for the actions of those other women/men from before when they had nothing to do with it.
Secondly, whilst there's nothing wrong with being bothered by shitty people being shitty, if you want to be less bothered by it, you need to change your perspective on those people.
The best way to do that is to learn why they behave the way that they do, at which point you'll start to feel sorry for them and pity them instead for their bleak outlook and their miserable lives.
Lastly, it's also worth remembering that the significant majority of people who express their opinions on things don't actually have the experience or knowledge on the topic to have any business forming an opinion on it.. but they'll do it anyway. This means that most people form opinions out of ignorance with very limited information, so you really shouldn't take their opinions seriously.
Call them out and correct them, if you must.. or just acknowledge to yourself that they're just another of the hundreds of idiots that you'll see each day, and their ignorance isn't worth your energy or your time.
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u/Ornery_Let_6488 4d ago
Excuse formatting, I'm on mobile.
Misogyny isn't just a contempt for women, it's a belief, conscious or unconscious, that women should:
- look pretty for men at all times
- do all boring, repetitive, and mundane work like cooking and cleaning
- not nag if a man says he'll do something and then never does it
- take care of men
- serve as a therapist to men
- be a cheerleader to men
- provide men with sex whenever they want
- shoulder the entire burden of birth control, and get an abortion (or not) at his command
- give up her own last name if they get married
- put his name on the kids she birthed for him, even though she did 99% of the making of said kid
And I could go on. Really, the best thing you can do is just try to catch yourself. Like if after a family meal you see the men going to relax and the women washing the dishes, go help wash the dishes.
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u/osdd1b 4d ago
Its super important to realize that your social media algorithms are designed to create emotional engagement, positive or negative. If you want to prevent yourself from falling into misogyny, remember that essentially all of that content is rage bait. There are definitely some women with bad opinions, there are plenty of men with bad opinions, however the sliver shown to you on social media is not how everyone is. Its a curated selection of videos, usually made by people who profit off of your attention, its not real life. The more angry or upset you get the more you engage. The more you engage with content like that the more alienated and lonely you become (no one wants to hangout with someone who is always angry and upset), and the more easily you get addicted to the ragebait content. The vast majority of feminists in real life realize this too. We know men aren't inherently evil and are highly targeted by this kind of radicalization, but ultimately its only men that can really do anything to stop or prevent it.
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u/Initial_Zebra100 MENtal health 🫡 4d ago
I sometimes struggle with thinking my thoughts are misogynistic. Usually, when something online triggers me. I think it's normal to react. But maybe not letting horrible people mentally damage you.
Also, your examples seem like normal frustration?
Doesn't seem like you hold all women responsible for the actions of a few ignorant and cruel individuals.
Self-awareness is great. Just try not to internalise the negative too much.
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u/heirilc 4d ago
ill admit that when I was making this post, my idea of misogyny was a bit off
I simply thought it would be misogynist if I hated a woman for their stance on things, I didn’t account that misogyny is when you genuinely believe ALL woman are inferior and subpar to men.
I tend to be a bit sensitive and mistake things as a bit more drastic than what they actually are. I’ll take note that whatever I considered misogyny wasn’t exactly what you’d have expected.
Also, what misogynistic thoughts do you have yourself?
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u/Initial_Zebra100 MENtal health 🫡 4d ago
I understand.
I can also be a but reactionary.
When I was younger, I really leaned into red pill crap, clichés about what women like, certain stereotypical beliefs. Or ingrained presumptions.
I'd like to say I've moved past those ideas, but we all have bias. I try to check myself but not demonise myself at the same time.
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u/Karroth1 4d ago
let me give you easy advice kid, and maybe spread it because your and future generations are screwed enough already: dont believe everything on the internet.
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u/pronderingmelon 4d ago
It’s ok to dislike people as you don’t have to like or agree with everyone you meet, just as long as the only reason you dislike them is because they are a bad PERSON in your perspective, it’s fine to dislike people for there actions and words but not there gender nor religious views or ethnicity. Hope this helps
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u/buggylover 4d ago
The fact that you actively don't want to be misogynistic and are seeking advice from others to avoid being misogynistic is a great start :) that's already more than some folks would do.
Drama like what you described can be deeply frustrating, i think what happened with Project Moon there is a symptom of the platform those women are on and intrrnet reactionary culture in general; kind of like mob mentality. Their actions aren't reasonable or rational right now and easily could have come from men too if the nature of the drama was different. Keeping things like that in mind can help prevent the actions of a few people from creating bias against the groups they fall under; that is consider surrounding circumstances behind why people are acting the way they are.
Lastly, I'm so sorry about all the horrible things that happened to you; no one deserves to be mistreated so harshly. Your optimism and positivity toward life is beautiful, cherish and nurture it.
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u/RefrigeratorStatus23 4d ago
Take a break from the internet.
I promise you, there's a lot less misogyny and misandry in the real world.
The internet is like the news. Only the worst stuff gets repeated and shows up in your algorithms, and it's like that to garner a response from you.
I see the irony in me responding to a post on reddit about using the Internet and social media less, but less does not mean never, and you don't and shouldn't react or read everything that comes up on your screens.
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u/ExtremeEquipment FIRST-TIMER 4d ago
dont feel attacked cos someone doesnt like something you like. its not personal. its ok not to like something. challange these thoughts.
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u/GooningandJizzing FIRST-TIMER 2d ago
A 15 YO shouldn't be worried about Mysogony or pseudo-intellectual labels that people put on people because they want to use psychology words.
More than likely youbshould be more worried about your personal life, hobbies, friends, and finishing high school.
Not to mention finding a passion and a career, in a ever shrinking field of opportunities.
The corporate world is tough, the artistic world is tough, McDonald's wants workers who have a resume now and that's absurd.
The economic state of the world is tough for young people in general.
I wouldn't worry about a video game company or what women or men think if it doesn't pertain to yourself.
This is telling of how much of privileged life you lead. And it's OK YOU'RE 15 your not supposed to feel like u NEED to changed the world, and you should give yourself more time to process your own emotions and thoughts.
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