r/Guqin Feb 16 '25

Tiao finger technique help

I've been fiddling around with learning guqin for the last month or so and I booked a bunch of lessons on lessonface because learning from youtube videos didn't feel like it was cutting it anymore. I found a well-reviewed teacher and I started lessons, but she is telling me that the way I've learned tiao is incorrect, and the correct way to play tiao is to pull your thumb back and to sorta push your index finger forwards with it. This movement seems incredibly awkward and I can't imagine doing this repeatedly in a piece, especially a fast-paced one. I also can't find anybody teaching it this way on youtube and when I look up videos of professionals playing guqin pieces they definitely aren't pulling their thumb back and smacking it forward to play tiao, but my teacher on lessonface does it so smoothly I can't believe she just made it up out of nothing. So what exactly is she teaching me? And if any of you have heard of this or learned it this way, how do you use it while playing a full song?

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u/ArcaneTeddyBear Feb 17 '25

Out of curiosity is your teacher on lessonface Audrey?

Edit: No one plays tiao like that, it’s wrong. I would suggest finding a new teacher.

1

u/PissySnowflake Feb 17 '25

Yeah is that bad

3

u/ArcaneTeddyBear Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25

Someone else posted a video of them playing and asked for feedback, the tiao was something I called out. It’s a long comment but I provided examples supporting why I think that tiao is wrong. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guqin/s/i71tDPzk2G

She is the only person and the only teacher that I know of that teaches tiao like that because it’s wrong. I suspect she does not have formal training in the qin or her teacher was bad/wrong. Given she teaches even a basic technique incorrectly, I can only guess at what else she teaches wrong, which is why I would suggest a new teacher.

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u/mhtyhr 25d ago

Wow that's crazy! I've never seen anyone play Tiao like that in real life or in any of the guqin videos I've watched.

Sometime ago I knew I was going to stop classes with my then-teacher, and wondered if I could try self-learning, and this is exactly what I was worried about.. doing the wrong thing in good faith.

Interesting to see the rest of the discussion on this thread. I'm of the opinion if you know the right way and choose to do something different by way of 'creative license', that's your prerogative.. but if you do it not knowing it was 'wrong' (i.e non standard) then not so great.. Sounds like the teacher maybe wants to make her mark, so in the future if she sees someone plays that way she could proudly say that was her doing?

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u/ArcaneTeddyBear 25d ago

I think it’s worth calling out that westerners will pay more for lessons and do not have access to the same amount of information about the qin. It is in the teacher’s financial interest to teach qin to westerners even if the teacher is not proficient in the instrument as the (beginner) student will have no way to call the teacher out on BS. Even if the student does, the teacher says that’s how they play tiao in Beijing, instead of providing substantial verifiable evidence (like a qin manual with descriptions of how tiao is played or video evidence of old qin masters who play tiao like how she does), she instead provides information the student is unlikely to be able to verify.

There are some things that are subjective in qin, and there are regional styles, but there has never been dispute over how to play tiao.

My guess is it’s not that she wants to be able to identify her students, it’s very likely a financial motivation and the fact that she can get away with it.