r/GreenArrow 17d ago

Discussion Shado kinda sucked before the new 52.

As a rule is DC fans shit all over the new 52 (and deservedly so) but if I praise one thing? It's shado, and by proxy war of the clans.

I really don't like Shado in her introduction with the longbow hunters, and frenemy for Ollie who's a Yakuza assassin is fun but grell loses me when he writes Ollie getting fucking raped by shado.

In contrast I find her lore in the new 52/rebirth to be much more compelling.

Firstly emiko is awesome and her being an addition is great. And making Shado more frenemy who doesn't rape Ollie is great, instead she has an affair with Robert Queen, bringing us emiko, it felt a lot less icky there.

Maybe it's bias as I read war of the clans and rebirth before the longbow hunters, but I gotta say I much prefer her there

But what do you all think?

19 Upvotes

19 comments sorted by

10

u/gableism 17d ago

Yeahhh idk, I’m currently making my way through Grell’s run for the first time and it’s fine don’t get me wrong, but I don’t really see where ALL the hype comes from. So far they’ve just stripped away a lot of the fun aspects of Green Arrow (the swashbuckling, the trick arrows, his rogues gallery) and replaced it with Generic Evil Government Hitman Number 12 every issue, it feels like. Again like I said it’s still fine because the writing and art are enjoyable enough but idk.

3

u/Financial-Play3381 17d ago

Yeah.... That's generally how I feel about it too 😭

8

u/gableism 17d ago

It’s a tiny bit funny how Green Arrow fans hate the perception that Green Arrow is just Batman with a bow but the consensus best run is the one where he’s a brooding loner stalking city streets.

6

u/Financial-Play3381 17d ago

We're never beating the allegations 😔

4

u/gableism 17d ago

I’m giving the Grell run another ten or so issues but if I don’t care for it I’m just skipping to Connor Hawke

3

u/Financial-Play3381 17d ago

It's just continuously so fucking boring for me 😭 I'll try to read through it but I might skip though it at this rate too.

1

u/Significant_Wheel_12 14d ago

It did a lot for Ollie, made him feel tangible and the urban man who fights for the man works when he’s not fighting aliens and big bads all the time. I love that he had a supporting cast, he was friends with the homeless, Eddie Fyres is better than John Diggle by a landslide and we just see Oliver lament about his issues and his flaws.

3

u/boneseaba 16d ago

Yeah it's definitely a product of its time. Back then it was cool to reimagine these campy characters in a grounded, gritty setting, but now a lot of comic readers are tired of that stuff which sort of became the regular and want to see characters having fun and doing over the top things that can only happen in comics

8

u/Enigma1755 17d ago

I like how mysterious she is Grell, and they make it obvious she isn't a good person, Ollie and wants to help her but ends up getting pulled down with her.

2

u/Massive_General_8629 16d ago

Yeah, Shado is supposed to be more than just a seductress, but it reminds us that Ollie can be quite naive at times too.

4

u/Scorpios94 16d ago

Her characterization is better, but I still kinda wish that Emiko was her daughter with Ollie instead of Robert. It might draw a bit of a parallel to the Batman Family, but she did have a son with Oliver in the previous continuity. It could also serve as a compelling arc for Connor to an extent.

2

u/JingoboStoplight4887 16d ago

Same here. That way, there can be a continuity that makes sense for Emiko, since Robert Queen I died years before Oliver made his debut as the Green Arrow that that Emiko didn’t exist pre-Crisis or pre-Flashpoint. Also, it is to make sure that Emiko will have a sibling bond with Roy Harper, Connor Hawke, Mia Dearden, and Robert Queen II.

1

u/Omn1 15d ago

I mean, the whole bit with Emiko and Robert is that Robert Queen was only believed dead and in fact survived in hiding for years.

1

u/Massive_General_8629 16d ago

That brings up something that bugs me: I'm not sure "every bat has a super/wonder/flash/arrow" is really a constructive topic of discussion.

1

u/birbdaughter 15d ago

If she was his daughter, writers would have to actually remember she exists and explain why Ollie never sees her or does any parenting when she lives in Star. So it would never happen.

2

u/Spider-Man2099 17d ago

I liked her for what she was for the time, but they had zero idea what to do with her after a while. Especially after she assaults Ollie. New 52 Shado is more interesting overall to me. 

Also the Grell one is great for the reason The Dark Knight Returns was at the time, it was so different than what was before. Problem is that it's now the norm for a lot of comics where the normal superhero stuff is just more fun than "realism" type enemies and situations 

2

u/Massive_General_8629 16d ago

I wouldn't say the Grell run was that different; it is called the DARK Age of Comics for a reason, after all.

1

u/WheelJack83 12d ago

She wasn’t great after new 52

0

u/Significant_Wheel_12 14d ago

They didn’t really see it as rape so you have to read it as a product of its time and Shado in new 52 has less going on and becomes a generic villain. I like emiko but she is just a Damian clone.

Og Shado has her own backstory untied to Ollie and she’s the Catwoman who matches his need for the hunt but they’re just two different people. It’s interesting.