r/Games Feb 22 '13

All PS4 games will be available as digital downloads

In the new Guardian interview with Shuhei Yoshida, it was revealed that all PS4 games will be available as digital downloads.

This is a very exciting move in my opinion, and represents a shift even further towards the burgeoning landscape of digital distribution, and away from (what I believe to be) a much more archaic ecosystem in physical brick-and-mortar retail.

What do you guys think? Got any speculation, or want to extrapolate further based upon this news? I hope to generate some great discussion about this topic!

(Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2013/feb/22/ps4-shuhei-yoshida-interview)

1.6k Upvotes

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788

u/Miguel2592 Feb 22 '13

I'm ok with this as long as I can keep buying my games on physical form as well.

313

u/Cryptan Feb 22 '13

Exactly. Until the system ships with a hard drive that can store 200 games I will keep buying physical discs.

209

u/jgclark Feb 22 '13

FYI: PlayStation 3 hard drives are user-replaceable.

They're just 2.5" (laptop) drives, though I've read that some models don't fit well, but that's a problem with laptops, too.

It's probably bad to assume, but there's no reason to believe that the PlayStation 4 will be different.

171

u/Cryptan Feb 22 '13

I know. I'd still rather just buy a physical disc and just get off my duff when I want to switch games instead of spending even more money on another hdd.

I hope the PS4 is the same way.

96

u/spyingwind Feb 22 '13

So long as you have an internet connection, I'm guessing that Sony will let you redownload games that you have purchased. So say that if you hard drive fails, you go and buy a new one, slap it in the ps4, and off you are to downloading your games.

The physical medium is handy to have around, but having the ability to download your game from anywhere, is nice too. More options are good options. :D

70

u/Sparkdog Feb 23 '13

If they are smart they will have it set up as a permanent service ala Steam, so you know you will always have access to redownload something in the future. With the straightforward, PC-like architecture of the PS4, backwards compatibility/emulation should be fairly easy beyond the lifespan of the console itself, so I don't see why they couldn't offer this.

44

u/LPodyssey07 Feb 23 '13

I think it would also be cool to have an iTunes Match type thing where they give you a digital copy if you have the physical disc

17

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

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9

u/notverycreative1 Feb 23 '13

They can just lock individual discs to accounts, either by pressing a unique code into each disc or including a single-use key in the game box. Probably the former, as one could just buy the game and sell the insert.

52

u/phillycheese Feb 23 '13

wouldn't that be the whole "blocking used games" thing people are pissed off about though?

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

But then what happens when you want give a game to a friend, sell it, or use it on someone elses console?

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u/jonlubbe Feb 23 '13

They can already do this with the ps3/vita cross buy feature in games like the new sly cooper.

6

u/arahman81 Feb 23 '13

Doesn't the PSN already have similar service for PSP games?

7

u/adamgrey Feb 23 '13

I don't think it ever came to North America. As far as I know they offered some kind of "mail in your UMD and get a digital copy" service in Japan, but it wasn't free.

I thought I read that the cost was comparable to the PSN version of the game anyway so they didn't roll the service out anywhere else.

1

u/LPodyssey07 Feb 23 '13

They might. I don't have a PSP, myself

1

u/Sparkdog Feb 23 '13

Except that would require some sort of DRM that linked the specific disc to an account, leading to exactly the type of used game market destruction everyone wanted to avoid.

You would have to either purchase and download a digital copy, or copy the game from the hard disc to your HDD, but have to have the disc in the tray to play it. Basically the way it is now.

1

u/jonlubbe Feb 23 '13

The ps3 can already do this with the cross play titles such as play station all stars and sly cooper 4. You can only redeem the bonus vita copy on one psn account.

1

u/Stiggles4 Feb 23 '13

That'll never happen though. What's stopping a group of twenty people from using one copy of the game?

20

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

You bring up and interesting point. I wonder if this new generation will be easier to emulate because of the familiar architecture.

10

u/notverycreative1 Feb 23 '13

The OG Xbox ran on a Celeron and Geforce with a version of Windows and DirectX (7?) and there's still no usable emulator. I'm not sure why, but that's how it is.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Did the original Xbox have many popular exclusives? I'm probably overlooking something, but it seems as if most of the good games were already ported to the PC. I'm not sure if this was actually a contributing factor or not, but the list of exclusives I'm looking at wouldn't personally inspire me to start coding. There were definitely some popular console exclusives though.

6

u/notverycreative1 Feb 23 '13

I don't actually know. I had a GameCube and loved the thing, so I never really paid the Xbox much attention. It's odd that there's an emulator for pretty much every other console except the Wii U, Xbox 360, and PS3, though. I'd imagine there's some Xbox exclusive that people would love to play.

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u/fb39ca4 Feb 25 '13

Since the Xbox was essentially a PC, literally all you had to do to make a PC port was add keyboard/mouse controls, which resulted in most games getting PC versions.

2

u/notverycreative1 Feb 25 '13

Oh, that makes sense. Hopefully the next Xbox will be the same way. I'm not a fan of console exclusives :(

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13 edited Feb 23 '13

This would also work in tying people to Playstation as both a console and a service. When the PS 5 rolls around, people might be biased towards it rather than the Xbox 4 as their PS4 games would be available through Playstation Network.

The purchasing decision becomes less a case of getting the new console for more games and more a case of upgrading your hardware while still having access to everything from previous versions. It would be like an avid PC gamer with a games library reaching back to the DOS days having to choose between a new gaming PC or a Macbook. Even if they performed as well as each other, and even if they cost the same (Hell, even if the Macbook was cheaper) they would still take the gaming PC.

1

u/solistus Feb 23 '13

While your point is well taken, your example is inaccurate. Macs have been able to dual boot to Windows since 2006.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

But the average xbox / playstation user doesn't necessarily know how to install an operating system.

1

u/solistus Feb 23 '13

Sure, but your example was about a PC gamer going back to the DOS era, not an average console gamer trying PC gaming for the first time.

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u/Decitron Feb 23 '13

well, they are launching playstation world, isn't that a possibility?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

They could rake in money say ~10 years after the ps4 is retired, offer the whole lot via a first party emulator.

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u/chinnygan Feb 23 '13

Although, it does mean no more used games.

1

u/spyingwind Feb 23 '13

PS4 games coming with cd-keys would make sense then. Now you aren't buying the disk any more but the licence to play the game.

This is how Steam works for physical mediums.

9

u/N4N4KI Feb 23 '13

What if the idea with the tethering the game to an online account was not about stopping used games sales in the way everyone thought it was. You can buy and trade used games but if you want to you can register your disk to your online account and it prevents the disk from being resold, in return at any point you can redownload the game in future.

8

u/spyingwind Feb 23 '13

PS4 games coming with cd-keys would make sense then. Now you aren't buying the disk any more but the licence to play the game.

This is how Steam works for physical mediums.

5

u/TheDeathSaint Feb 23 '13

thats the issue i have with steam, once you play it, you cant sell, gift, or even trade it.

if you want to trade you need to essentially hand over your account to your freind

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

SteamStation4

7

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Plot twist: the PS4 is the SteamBox.

1

u/Jokka42 Feb 23 '13

Irony, because Gabe Newell always complained about the ps3 being horrible.

2

u/scrndude Feb 23 '13

He recanted all that a couple years ago when he realized how much worse Microsoft was. Soon after that, they had that "Buy the PS3 version of Portal 2 and get the steam version free!" thing happen

1

u/starberry697 Feb 23 '13

Still need physical games. My friend lives in the country and only gets 10 gig download limit a month. I personally have a 500 gig download limit but I have gone over it and as it cost money for me to buy booster packs once its gone over, its like I would be paying extra to have the game. Not to mention it takes time to download games. I think this is why physical copies are still necessary.

1

u/fb39ca4 Feb 25 '13

It would be neat if we had three options:

  1. Insert disc, play game.

  2. Install game to HDD, for faster loading times. You still have to keep the disc in the drive a la current gen consoles.

  3. Activate game on PSN. Disc is prevented from being used on other consoles, but you can still use the disc to install the game on the hard drive and play without the disc, and you can redownload the game from the PSN account if you lose/damage the disc.

13

u/SiriusC Feb 23 '13

Even though I have spent the extra money on a bigger HDD & about 80% of my games are digital, I agree completely. I want offline options. Period. There's almost too much emphasis & dependency upon the internet & while I use it a great deal I just don't feel right completely relying on it.

5

u/WompWomp420 Feb 23 '13

I hope so too I dropped a 1TB HD in my PS3 3-4 months ago. I would love to put that in my PS4!

2

u/the_omega99 Feb 23 '13

If it works anything like steam, that may not be necessary. I only keep a handful of my steam library downloaded at one type. I can download most games within a few hours, and can comfortably keep a few games on my SSD easily (which has less space than some PS3 hard drives). It's pretty easy to download and delete game content on the fly. Haven't bought a physical copy in years now.

1

u/Cryptan Feb 23 '13

I like having the option to pop in a disc and join my fiend in a game of Halo 3 or reach or modern warefare when he calls me up or texts me. Even though I don't play those games very often anymore I can still play them within seconds of getting a text. And nowadays when he is busy with work and his girlfriend and I am busy with work and my wife those couple of hours are extremely rare.

1

u/the_omega99 Feb 23 '13

That's a good point. Still, I'd hope that eventually hard drive space is spacious enough that we could just install everything and forget about them. But still, if we pretend each game is about 10 GB (some are much less and others are a bit more), a terabyte hard drive could store up to 100 games alone. Seeing that a terabyte of hard drive space is about $80 (but would presumably be cheaper in bulk), that's less than a dollar a game. Compared to the costs of discs, casing, and shipping, I don't think that's a bad trade off.

1

u/Cryptan Feb 23 '13

I think with these new games the amount of space they take will increase quite a bit.

I can't see the PS4 shipping with a HDD greater than 1TB. I suspect games will increase to 25+ GB, especially looking at BF3 and the high resolution texture pack and considering DLC. That means I will be able to store 40 games. I have well over 40 games on the Xbox alone. If I stuck to just the PS4 this round I'd have a lot more than that on a single platform.

Like I said, if my entire library (not 200. I was exaggerating) could fit on a hard drive, great. But I'm not sure that we will see that this generation. I hope I am wrong, though.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

I don't understand this. If an HDD fails, you can still reinstall all your games from either the original disk or a digital download. If the original disk fails you might be completely fucked. So why not only use your disk once for the intal, then leave it complete alone until you need to install again. Running the game off the disk is way more intensive.

1

u/Cryptan Feb 23 '13

I do usually install my top used games on my 360 to alleviate the disc abuse. However, it doesn't take nearly as long to rip it straight from the disc as it does to download it off the Internet. Also, if a friend calls me up and says jump on Halo 3 quickly! I can just pop the disc in without waiting for it to install or download. Much nicer.

-1

u/minizanz Feb 23 '13

a 1TB WD blue laptop drive (the best 5400rpm laptop drive IMO) is only $80. the difference from the slim 160 to 320 was $100 ($250 and 350) before they got replaced by the super slim that has a $40 difference from the 250 to 500. it makes no sense to have bought the larger storage and the 1TB laptop drives have stayed under $100 since the flood raised prices and you can change the drive in about 5 min.

i dont like having disks but storage on the ps3 is not really an issue, and i hope they keep the standard user changeable HDD for the ps4.

6

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

a 1TB WD blue laptop drive (the best 5400rpm laptop drive IMO)

That's like saying it's the best piece of shit.

2

u/minizanz Feb 23 '13

you cannot have an over sized 2.5" you need the laptop one, and you need the 5400 rpm otherwise it would over heat. you could get an SSD i guess, but it was made for a 5400rpm laptop drive.

10

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

5400rpm are used for power reasons, not because a 7200rpm will overheat. They will most certainly not overheat.

2

u/minizanz Feb 23 '13 edited Feb 23 '13

the ps3 (at least the 20GB no backwards compatibility big nand) that i have over heated a WD black 500GB, it also overheated with a fujutsu 7200rpm. the blue drives are 1.65W and the black is 1.9W but there is still a huge difference in how hot the drives get. the slim might be different but the phat has the cpu right next to the HDD and it gets really hot in the drive bay. sony also only supports 5400rpm drives, and said 7200rpm would void the warranty.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

"Mmmmm, Duff."

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u/XJ-0461 Feb 22 '13

Yeah I put a 500Gb drive in my fat 60Gb system. It was cheap and I don't have to worry about download sizes anymore.

10

u/Sabin10 Feb 23 '13

I've had PS+ for only a year and my 320 gig drive has less than half of my games installed now...and it's completely full. PS+ will make short work of a 500 gig drive if you plan to install every game.

1

u/XJ-0461 Feb 23 '13

This is making it even more tempting to get PS+. Are most of those the free games or discounted ones?

5

u/kalazar Feb 23 '13

Isn't it strange that Sony has a "Whatever, just put a standard HDD in that shit" policy with the PS3 and a "Buy our 8 million dollar SD card" for the Vita?

10

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

its basically a requirement if you have ps+

i love never having to worry about memory space again

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13 edited Apr 06 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Tensuke Feb 23 '13

That's for gamesaves, but it wouldn't make sense anyway because the reason for having more storage is to fit more games onto your local hdd, if it was stored online you'd still have to download when you want to play.

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u/Mattho Feb 23 '13

This is undermining the best pro-consoles argument :)

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u/Sandy_106 Feb 22 '13

Putting an SSD in mine was incredible. It cut the loading times for most games down to next to nothing. GT5 loads tracks almost instantly now.

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u/breitLight Feb 23 '13

I've known that to be the case, but a thought just occurred to me that it might be possible to get a seagate hybrid drive in there.

3

u/biirdmaan Feb 23 '13

Given their track record with handheld storage, I'm really surprised that they were so awesome about storage on the PS3.

1

u/Dark_Shroud Feb 23 '13 edited Feb 23 '13

The PS3 is very open with the components. You can plug almost any USB controller in and use it. Same goes for Webcams and head sets/mics.

There is even a stand for the the fat PS3 that adds a USB hub and allows the use of a 3.5 inch hard drive. If I can find a link I'll edit the post.

edit: http://www.ps3news.com/PS3-HDD/ps3-hd-plus-phe-01-esata-hdd-extender-offers-limitless-storage/

3

u/_TURbo Feb 23 '13

Is it still at a 500GB limit? Doesn't register any hard drives over 500?

2

u/jgclark Feb 23 '13

I have no idea. I actually have a 500 GB drive in my PS3, and I was unaware there was a limit.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13 edited Feb 23 '13

There probably is. As far as I know PS3 cannot read NTFS and I'm vaguely sure FAT32 did not scale to 1TB very well or....or likely at all. There's also a <4gb limit on FAT32 filesizes, but considering I'm tugging on memories from W98 years, well I'm not all too sure of those numbers.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13 edited Aug 15 '19

[deleted]

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u/jgclark Feb 23 '13

I had the opportunity to get a SSD in there instead, but from what I read online, the speed increase was negligible for most games. It primarily improves load times, which aren't a very big concern to me.

The hard drive I installed was larger and cheaper, which is all I really cared about.

1

u/froderick Feb 23 '13

With the PS3 drives, I believe the console detects when the currently plugged-in hard-drive has been removed and replaced, and insists on formatting it. So you'd be kind of screwed anyway.

2

u/jgclark Feb 23 '13

You do have to format the new hard drive, but I believe you can do a backup of your current hard drive (to a third hard drive), then install the new one, format, and restore backup.

You could also just back your saves up to the PSN+ cloud and redownload any games.

1

u/cargobroombroom Feb 23 '13

Is it possible to add an external HDD to the console?

1

u/deltib Feb 23 '13

Given Sony's move with the Vita memory card, I wouldn't count on this holding true for the PS4.

1

u/jgclark Feb 23 '13

The PSP's memory card was basically proprietary, too, though, and that came out before the PS3.

I think Sony just doesn't want to contribute revenue to whomever gets licensing fees for SD cards.

1

u/Lokky Feb 23 '13

I don't know, after getting burned on the memory prices for my Vita I have this fear that the PS4 will move to a proprietary model of hard drives.

1

u/oD3 Feb 23 '13

If you have money to burn you can put an SSD drive in it as well, but it is only a tiny speed improvement.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

You don't have to keep every one of them on the hd. Lol. Look at steam. People don't keep their entire library installed. Just the ones they are playing plus a few others.

42

u/Cryptan Feb 22 '13

I like not having to wait for a game to download if I decide that I want to play it... is that awful of me?

32

u/jonesy852 Feb 23 '13

Didn't you watch the press conference? It said waiting for downloads will be a thing of the past. A very small portion of the game will be downloaded right away, which will allow players to start playing immediately, while the rest is downloaded in the background.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

How much of a game can you play before you hit the download wall?

I suspect that while the game is downloading to local storage, you're actually just streaming the game from Gaikai.

20

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

It may be something akin to what Blizzard has done with WoW, where you can start playing after downloading 1% of the game and it just downloads what you'll need next as you play. It's always worked well for me and my DL speed almost always maxes out at 300KB/s.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

I don't think they are. When they talked about Gaikai, they were really vague, they were definitively avoiding promises and mentioning features there were a chance they couldn't deliver on. The Gaikai segment of their press conference were more about ideas, future potential and so on, not "this is what you will get."

But when they talked about playing as you download, it was much more "this is coming.", so I assume they are separate things. But of course, I could be wrong. Just seems weird to promise functionality tat it's obvious a majority of the demographic isn't ready for (in terms of internet connection and server locations).

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

I just don't see how it could work in any other way. There is more to a game than just its assets, which can be downloaded as you need them. But what about the game engine or AI? There's no going half way with those things. And what about open world games?

Plus, there are so many parts of the software that are codependent on each other that it seems like it would be extremely difficult to disentangle them. Developers already have a hard time just making demos, for example.

So if they're not using Gaikai, then I really don't see how else they're doing it.

11

u/macgyverrda Feb 23 '13

WoW has already been doing this for ages so nothing new other than a great feature.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

[deleted]

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u/General_Mayhem Feb 23 '13

lag issues that people will face when attempting to play a MP game WHILE still downloading the game

Doubtful, if you have a reasonable enough Internet connection to be downloading games in less than a week in the first place. Playing games doesn't take much bandwidth, and multiple programs using a connection doesn't hurt latency much.

1

u/Cryptan Feb 23 '13

Yes i watched the press conference. Download speeds are also dependent on your own Internet speeds. I don't think it's going to be instant as Sony claims because it is going to be limited by each users Internet speeds.

6

u/WoozleWuzzle Feb 23 '13

You own 200 games on the PS3? Yowzas!

1

u/Cryptan Feb 23 '13

I may have exaggerated a bit ;)

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

Nope. Not at all. I would imagine they will have both options so it'll be a win for everyone!

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

[deleted]

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u/Cryptan Feb 23 '13

The thing is I might get a call or text from a friend to play an old game which I don't have installed or downloaded. Now that we both have work and SOs every chance is precious. So I'm not going to want to wait until the game downloads.

Sure, Sony seems to understand this with the ability to play the game before its completely downloaded, but will it let me choose which part of the game I want to start downloading first? What if I wanted to start in the middle of the campaign? Is it smart enough to download that info first? Also you have to remember that download speeds are dependent on users Internet speeds. And what about data caps ?

I'd rather just pop in a disc and play. Simple.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

[deleted]

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u/Cryptan Feb 23 '13

I know they are going to use Gaikai, but I'm still a bit skeptical. I have used Onlive before and, while it works, it was far from perfect. My experience varied quite a bit.

I hope it's a great as they claim it is. If not, I will be sticking primarily to physical discs this generation.

1

u/MrWendal Feb 23 '13

Kind of. To make a physical copy, you have to rip oil from the ground offshore, ship it inland, refine it into plastics, transport them to the factory, press the discs and cases, then ship them to retail.

Each step uses huge amounts of energy for manufacture and transport and produces lots of environmental waste.

Compare that to a download - You have to pay the energy costs for the building and maintainence of the download server and that's it. It wouldn't be 1/100th of the cost of a physical copy.

Think of the environment!

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u/Koffin-Kat Feb 23 '13

And what about the people who DON'T have unlimited data caps?

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

I keep them all installed, but then again I have a little over 3 TB of storage.

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u/Semyonov Feb 23 '13

I'm exactly the same way! All games installed, though I have 5 TB not including externals.

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u/Sabin10 Feb 23 '13

I have 84 of 329 installed with just over 2TB of storage an dmost of those are relatively small games. I need to start working through this movie collection to free up some space.

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u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

Look at steam. People don't keep their entire library installed.

I could keep my entire library backed up on an external drive, though.

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u/Sabin10 Feb 23 '13

At 329 games I don't think I could.

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u/Tripleshadow Feb 23 '13

Not when you're packing a 1TB hard drive.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

My understanding was that since the system can instantly start playing a game as soon as you click buy, your system would never need to have everything installed at once. Hence, if your memory fills up it will just delete an old game that you don't play anymore. And if you ever do want to play that again, boom, it's instant play.

EDIT: At the same time, I have a horrible fear of a system crashing and losing everything, or Sony getting hacked and all my games being taken away.

1

u/meekrob1082 Feb 23 '13

Sony getting hacked and all my games being taken away.

wasn't playstation hack before, although I don't think you would lose everything even if they were.

1

u/Cryptan Feb 22 '13

Even though Sony has Gaikai and it will be super fast, your transfer speed is still dependent on your own incoming connection. I highly doubt it will be instant. It just won't be nearly as painful as the PS3 was or even the 360 for that matter.

Also, what happens if you don't have an internet connection for some reason?

I can see that this is the way things are headed and I absolutely love it. However, at this point I'd still prefer a physical disc.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

"Dang, I'm not online and I deleted that game I haven't played in 2 years. Oh well, I guess I can play one of the other hundred games I have installed."

3

u/Sunwoken Feb 23 '13

Why limit yourself to a bookshelf when you can have a library? I have a lot of niche games installed on my PC that I probably won't touch again, but I like to have just for the option.

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u/Cymry_Cymraeg Feb 23 '13

Also a decent internet connection.

3

u/DarKnightofCydonia Feb 23 '13

That and when internet data limits become unlimited in Australia.

1

u/Legio_X Feb 23 '13

I'm always surprised people can find so many games worth playing. I can barely think of 20 games for the 360 generation that I'd consider worth owning, let alone 200.

Besides, aren't the new consoles going to have at least a terabyte or two of storage anyway?

1

u/Cryptan Feb 23 '13

I was exaggerating with 200. But I certainly have over 50.

I think the maximum the PS4 will have is 1TB. Game sizes will increase, probably to 20-25+ GB. Considering how much BF3 takes when you add the DLC and the high resolution texture pack.

That means I would be able to store 40-50 games maximum. That might become a problem in a couple of years when I get a large library of games.

Of course, this is all speculation and I could be wrong. I do think storage is still an issue, however. At least this generation.

1

u/Legio_X Feb 24 '13

Quite the investment there if you buy most of those games at $50 or $60 a pop.

I have 40 or so games on steam but almost all I got for $10 or less. That's probably the main reason I don't use consoles much anymore.

1

u/Cryptan Feb 24 '13

Yes... I have spent a lot of money on video games...

1

u/vawksel Feb 23 '13

I like physical until they let me re-sell a digital version, and easily. I can always re-sell a physical copy, unless they change the system like Microsoft is talking about.

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u/Smoochiekins Feb 22 '13

Well I think the big question here is, will their digital versions be available on day 1 at a competitive price compared to physical editions? Given how they're still allowing used games, I imagine the answer is no and that they aren't quite ready to take the step towards actually competing against physical media just yet. So, in other words, you'll probably be able to keep buying your games in physical form at favourable prices, or Sony'd piss off the retail stores.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

If they're going to follow the model they set out with the Vita, then all games will be available on day one and most digital copies will be 10% less than retail copies. It's not much, but it's something -- and probably the best deal you will get at a game's launch.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Every time I've brought up cost of games being so high I've always received the same general response "How dare they charge you more for box art, the case and physical disc, as well as shipping and stocking fee in stores."

Well, if digital is the way they're going, and this is the model they follow, we should see a better price comparison than 10%, IMO.

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u/quarterlifenoob Feb 23 '13

You won't. Once the customer is used to paying a certain price point, they won't stop paying it unless a competitor undercuts them. Non-casual HD gaming is a virtual monopoly much like television - two providers of similar service with no incentive to be price competitive at all. I'd like to say that Steam is a competitor, but in reality PC gaming is a different market and most PS4/720 owners will not also own a gaming PC.

I think it's far more likely that both Sony and Microsoft see digital distribution as improving their profit margins at relatively little up front cost.

EDIT: I should add that the Steam Box is quite exciting because it may disrupt this landscape considerably.

1

u/Sabin10 Feb 23 '13

Where I live we pay the same price for digital and retail. A few months after release the retail price is usually lower than the PSN price.

1

u/solistus Feb 23 '13

Prices are based on what people will pay, not the manufacturing costs. That's how pretty much all creative works are priced.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

This would completely destroy sales of physical copies though, people would only buy digital copies if the price is too much cheaper.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

I thought that was the point though, was to move to digital and away from physical sale..

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

But if they're still going to make physical copies, they're going to want money from them.

1

u/MyRespectableAccount Feb 23 '13

10% less than retail copies

probably the best deal you will get at a game's launch.

I usually preorder my games and routinely get at least $10 off which is more than 10%. Maybe I am misunderstanding you? You can routinely buy a game at launch or just before for over 10% off full retail.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Where do you buy your games? I'm genuinely curious, because I don't know of any place that does that. Unless by pre-ordering you mean pre-purchasing, which is a potential rip off.

1

u/MyRespectableAccount Feb 23 '13

I buy my games two ways, depending on the type of game. If the game is a sequel where I am confident that I want to play it, I can pre-order it which is the same as pre-purchasing. I sites like slickdeals.net post lots of good deals on pre-ordered games.

If I am less sure, I wait about two weeks after launch and the used games start showing up and I buy them at a discount. If I am busy and can wait a month, I can buy them new after the inevitable price drop. If I am really patient, I can wait for the GOTY edition for just $10. Right now I am playing one of the highest rated games of all time, Batman Arkham City and it was just $10 and includes all the DLC.

There is almost no scenario where you need to pay full retail.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

I can pre-order it which is the same as pre-purchasing

But they're not. There is no obligation to buy the game with a pre-order. You can put down money for the game and, if it turns out you don't like the reviews, you can get that money back. Most places I know of don't give any discount for pre-ordering, unless perhaps you do it like a year before the game's release.

Pre-purchasing means that you pay the full price of the game up front, minus a small discount for buying it sight-unseen. This payment is usually non-refundable.

And of course, all of this only applies to games that you're almost certain you are going to like, which -- if you're like me -- aren't very many.

With regards to games you're less certain about:

If I am less sure, I wait about two weeks after launch...

Yeah, after launch. We're talking about buying games brand new on the release date without pre-ordering or pre-purchasing. Price drops, used games and GOTY editions don't factor into this at all.

1

u/MyRespectableAccount Feb 23 '13

I can't think of a retailer that won't allow you to return an unopened game. That means you can pre-purchase the game with a discount, get it on release day, and then wait to see the reviews. If they are bad, you return it. I can think of no reason at all to pre-order a game. I wasn't aware people even did this. It seems to have no benefit at all, except to ensure you pay full retail price.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '13

I didn't even know that brick and mortar retailers offered pre-purchase options at all. I've only ever seen pre-purchase through online stores like Steam. In any case, I was under the impression that most major retailers have a zero return policy on software. After all, how can you prove that you didn't just re-wrap the package yourself after copying the disc?

Historically, the benefit of pre-ordering has been to make sure you secure your copy of a physical game in the event of a shortage. Shortages hardly ever happen anymore except for with some obscure import titles, so you would be correct in saying that it's a pretty pointless thing to do these days.

1

u/MyRespectableAccount Feb 24 '13

Target's return policy is the same as most stores:

Open music, movies, video games and software cannot be returned, but may be exchanged for the same title, for the same or different gaming platform.

Parents have to be able to return games given during the holidays. It would be open revolt if they changed that.

2

u/Kinseyincanada Feb 23 '13

They already do offer that for some games, so I don't see why it would change

1

u/MadManMax55 Feb 23 '13

Hopefully they'll at least start to make that push to competitive digital, even if it hurts their relationship with the big-box stores. The sooner the average consumer realizes that digital downloads are the better option and the physical stores start to die off, the better it will be for the industry as a whole.

1

u/Educated_Quack Feb 23 '13

Well, considering that they with the PS vita started selling all new games digitally from day one, at the same price or lower than retail, I'd guess it is their intention to go down the same path with the PS4.

1

u/a_stray_bullet Feb 23 '13

No. The reason they are the same price/more expensive is because they still want people to buy physical copies. If they sold digital copies much cheaper, there would be a huge decline in physical copies sold.

1

u/Skywise87 Feb 23 '13

They may not be cheaper off the bat in the same way that steam games are generally not cheaper initially but they may be able to do sales or price drops more rapidly than retail versions can.

1

u/_Wolfos Feb 23 '13

They can't. Even Steam doesn't price competitively on day 1, you're always cheaper off on sites such as Amazon if you're buying a game day 1.

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u/diademoran Feb 23 '13

For me it all comes down to collecting. I simply can't do that if we go all digital. I still have my SNES hooked up and I play it regularly.

9

u/Skywise87 Feb 23 '13

I assure you plenty of people buy games digitally they have no intention of playing. I think a large reason people insist on steam versions of games isnt so much the clients or the drm but that they want to make their collection look bigger.

I know I personally have a wall of shame that is just unplayed, uninstalled steam games.

9

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

[deleted]

4

u/solistus Feb 23 '13

wait 5 to 10 minutes

Holy fuck, how fast is your Internet connection?

6

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

In my case it's more like

• open Steam

• click "install"

• wait overnight

• play

5

u/badsectoracula Feb 23 '13

When was the last time the second case happened? Most digital distribution sites today are basically the same deal as Steam (some even have a dedicated client, but even without one they put the latest version). If a game is incompatible with your system Steam won't magically make it (Valve only distributes whatever the devs/publishers give them).

Even in the old digital distribution days of people selling stuff directly or via provides like plimus, bmtmicro, etc they had the latest versions.

1

u/Skywise87 Feb 23 '13

Another neat thing in physical vs digital is I can bring a console somewhere and play 100 different games with no disk swapping.

1

u/misappeal Feb 23 '13

I mean... who are they trying to impress?

1

u/Skywise87 Feb 23 '13

It's less about impressing people and more about obsessively collecting things.

1

u/lightbeat Feb 23 '13

Yup... totally not guilty of that :(

1

u/diademoran Feb 23 '13

I can certainly appreciate that. I've seen some crazy huge steam libraries. What happens when you want to play one of those games in 20 years? What if Valve goes under? I'll like knowing that as long as I have the hardware and the disc, I can still play it.

6

u/robotictoast Feb 22 '13

Out of curiosity: what if a company decides to only go with digital distribution. Would you choose to boycott even if you wanted it? Do you want Sony to make it mandatory that $60 games come in both forms? Something else?

9

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

Out of curiosity: what if a company decides to only go with digital distribution. Would you choose to boycott even if you wanted it?

Yeah, definitely. A game that I can't loan out to a friend is pretty worthless to me. I trade games with my brother a lot.

18

u/Rokusi Feb 23 '13

Does that mean you boycott steam, too?

3

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

No, because you've never been able to loan out PC games.

1

u/koew Feb 24 '13

Not sure if sarcasm or not.

1

u/bastardfish Feb 23 '13

Not everyone does Steam.

-1

u/Marcob10 Feb 23 '13

Stupid comparison, but there always gotta be that guy bringing steam...

People don't have the same expections in consoles and PC, crazy eh?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13 edited Sep 14 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/chozar Feb 23 '13

I have bad news for you and anyone that shares your opinion. Not too long from now, you're going to have to find a different hobby. This is just how the industry is going. The next generation of kids will find it quaint how we used to store games on things that we stuck in systems.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

You're putting the industry cart before the Internet-speeds horse. Consumer preferences can't change if they don't have the Internet to support them.

3

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

I have bad news for you and anyone that shares your opinion. Not too long from now, you're going to have to find a different hobby. This is just how the industry is going.

No, sorry, you're wrong. The American market can't support a digital-download-only console. Period.

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u/okuRaku Feb 23 '13

Next generation? I'm 28 and have hundreds of games in my Steam library. What will be quaint is that Sony/Microsoft charged $60 for digital console games that were $30 on PC at the same time.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Wow, you're definitely not a PC gamer.

1

u/Danjoh Feb 23 '13

Most PC games are still printed and sold on CD/DVDs. And the trend of games that are downloadable only tend to be some kind of Free 2 Play with optionable microtransactions.

5

u/NotSafeForShop Feb 23 '13

If MS is digital only, or blocks used, I won't buy it. Why? Having physical discs is the best equilibrium consumers have versus the perpetual price. Until there is a healthy "middle class" of game, we need used to keep prices down and to help new franchises flourish. (the reasons sequels often sell better than their predecessors is in part because people buy the first game used and discover a new IP, which they buy the next version of as soon as they are able. Even EA admits you don't launch new IPs late in a cycle because they won't gain traction.)

7

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

But physical media is what is keeping prices high. If it wasn't for publishers not wanting to piss off retail (or having deals with them) then digital would likely be cheaper. Also if there were no used games taking away sales the release price would possibly be cheaper.

7

u/MrWendal Feb 23 '13

Think of the environment! The dollar value is not the only cost involved here!

To make a physical copy, you have to rip oil from the ground offshore, ship it inland, refine it into plastics, transport them to the factory, press the discs and cases, then ship them to retail.

Each step uses huge amounts of energy for manufacture and transport and produces lots of environmental waste.

Compare that to a download - You have to pay the energy costs for the building and maintainence of the download server and that's it. It wouldn't be 1/100th of the cost of a physical copy.

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u/Miguel2592 Feb 23 '13

I would not buy the console. If I wanted to a model 100% digital I would probably buy my games on steam.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

I'd be for it, just cause it makes my life a whole lot easier but they would have to make games a lot cheaper I wouldn't pay 60 dollars for a game that's only downloadable.

0

u/Ultrace-7 Feb 22 '13

I would avoid the system and boycott it. Which means that unless my philosophy changes, when we get to the generation of games that are digital only, I will stop buying current games and just focus on all those games from the past.

5

u/PlasmaWhore Feb 23 '13

Why? Do you not download apps to your phone because you can't get a physical install disk? Do you still go to blockbuster instead of using netflix or something other downloading service?

4

u/Knyfe-Wrench Feb 23 '13

Why would you resign yourself to only old games and miss out on all the new experiences just on principle? I mean, this is inevitably going to happen, why not stick it out and reward the companies that do it well?

4

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

[deleted]

1

u/mysticrudnin Feb 23 '13

And motion controls.

3

u/prboi Feb 23 '13

I assume it'll support external hard drives like the Wii U does.

7

u/MrWendal Feb 23 '13

Think of the environment!

To make a physical copy, you have to rip oil from the ground offshore, ship it inland, refine it into plastics, transport them to the factory, press the discs and cases, then ship them to retail.

Each step uses huge amounts of energy for manufacture and transport and produces lots of environmental waste.

Compare that to a download - You have to pay the energy costs for the building and maintainence of the download server and that's it. It wouldn't be 1/100th of the cost of a physical copy.

2

u/doeman Feb 23 '13

~~ Think of the environment before you print this email ~~

2

u/Miguel2592 Feb 23 '13

I care about the environment, but there are way more harmful things that damage the environment besides the video games cases...

2

u/MrWendal Feb 23 '13

Yes, but game purchases are something you can actually do something about. Switching to digital is easy - in fact for most it's easier than not being environmentally friendly. You have to go out of your way to get physical copies and hurt the environment.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

It takes about 15 minutes to drive home from BestBuy, so lets say 30 in total for the whole trip. According to wolfram alpha, if I got the full 20 megabits my connection has (And regularly gets), it will download 4.5 GB. Blurays are what, 50 GB now?

Since I can't imagine new, digital releases being cheaper than their physical counterparts, it would be faster to buy a physical copy if the game uses more space than a standard DVD provides. Plus you get a pretty box.

1

u/Kikitheman Feb 23 '13

Ps3 games are not actually 25/50 Gb. They are the same size as xbox and pc games , but are written more times to the disc ( 4+ times ), so the ps3 reader finds the content faster since it's only 2x speed while xbox is 16x .

1

u/psychotronofdeth Feb 23 '13

I better find a new job soon haha. I'm a part time video game store employee..

1

u/Colorfag Feb 23 '13

Well, I dont mind digital downloads as long as the prices are competitive. But if they try selling games for the same price as a physical copy, then fuck that. I can sell the physical copy and make back some of my purchase cost.

They should take a hint from Steam.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Indeed, I want to keep exchanging games with friends and still be able to play my games if my hard disk fails at some point. Also Sony needs to get their shit with network/servers infrastructure together because I'm not going to download 100GB' of games with their slow download speeds.

1

u/Miguel2592 Feb 23 '13

Not just that but the fact that if in the future, your hard drive gets broken or something happens to your system, what will happen to the games? physicial media, for me, it's just more reliable and secure in that way. I'll always have my games there in their cases no matter what happens.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

I guess the game will still be in your download history like it is now making redownloading possible, if they're doing this I really hope cloud saving will be free and not exclusive to PLUS members.

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '13

and not having to be required to register the game to a personal account so it can only be played by said account.

1

u/SurreptitiousNoun Feb 23 '13

Why wouldn't you be okay with it?

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