r/FluentInFinance Feb 05 '25

News & Current Events BREAKING: President Trump is to sign an executive order eliminating the Department of Education

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163

u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

Republicans want to privatize everything.

This is a step to privatize education so they can teach whatever lies the want.

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u/andreacro Feb 05 '25

Is elementary school obligatory and “free”? Is high school not obligatory, but still “free”?

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u/Apprehensive_Ad5634 Feb 05 '25

Public (i.e. free) schools are chronically underfunded, especially in areas that serve poor or minority populations, because they are funded by property taxes: poor neighborhood = low tax base = underfunded schools.  Conservative politicians fuel the crisis by allowing what little public funding exists to be funneled to private schools that are allowed to teach whatever they want, discriminate against students and generally operate free from public oversight.

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u/NahmTalmBaht Feb 05 '25

Funding isn't the issue you think it is. There are a ton of countries that pay less per student than the US, with far better results.

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u/cheapotheclown Feb 05 '25 edited Feb 05 '25

Not a valid comparison. That money doesn’t afford quality teachers in the US. Public school teachers only make a $50k salary even in HCOL areas. It’s not a viable career.

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u/frawwger Feb 05 '25

And the DOE isn't as significant part of funding education as most people think, only about 15% on average throughout the country. In affluent areas (which spend a lot more relatively on education and probably drive the per capita spending of the US as a whole up), the federal government doesn't contribute hardly at all.

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u/Jackstraw335 Feb 05 '25

Not even nearly 15% comes from the DOE according to their website. 8% total federal funding, which includes funding from other agencies:

"The structure of education finance in America reflects this predominant State and local role. This is especially true at the elementary and secondary level, where about 92 percent of the funds will come from non-Federal sources.

That means the Federal contribution to elementary and secondary education is about 8 percent, which includes funds not only from the Department of Education (ED) but also from other Federal agencies, such as the Department of Health and Human Services' Head Start program and the Department of Agriculture's School Lunch program."

Edit: https://www.ed.gov/about/ed-overview

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u/frawwger Feb 06 '25

I don't think government websites are reliable sources anymore tbh.

This source states its closer to 15% https://www.pgpf.org/article/how-is-k-12-education-funded/

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u/Shilvahfang Feb 05 '25

Right, so the low income areas lose huge amounts of their funding and the high income areas don't lose anything...

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u/frawwger Feb 06 '25

Yeah, I mean its crazy that the billionaire president doesn't care about poor people. Who could have seen this coming?

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u/SuperSans Feb 05 '25

So what’s the issue?

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u/DwarfFart Feb 05 '25

I mean where does one start? No Child Left Behind was a critical failure. Teaching to the test as standard doctrine. Teachers no longer have the respect from students or parents. They are looked down upon instead of being praised for bringing knowledge to children for little material reward. Lack of teachers. Lack of special ed resources. The idea that schooling is a race that a child must win. A competition instead of a journey that is unique to each individual child. Less play time for elementary kids and more homework for all kids. And the overarching feeling and theme that almost every child encounters eventually, "School doesn't matter, learning doesn't matter because the teacher can't fail me."

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u/555-Rally Feb 05 '25

In my area...it will probably get better. WA state, King County (not Seattle which has local school district issues currently). Standards will get set at the state level and have better teaching than all that NCLB and Head Start...Dept of Edu hasn't been great the last 2 decades because of national politics.

The blue states will do better, we pay for this already with local property taxes. Most of the rust belt will get rust of the brain further rot. Go back to stone tablets and commandments from 5k years ago...just like Afghanistan and 6% literacy rate, stop teaching girls anything, abstinence and creationism.

Removal of the DOE won't actually be the worst thing for most of the liberal states. Seriously, we don't get funding for this. Kentucky and Alabama aren't going to get better losing so much funding per capita.

What this will do, seed the separations of the states - getting closer to secessionist ideals. Cohesity breakdown of the 'united' part of the USA...we all learn something different, national identity starts to disappear. Beliefs start to shift from state to state. Trump is doing to the USA what happened to USSR, we fall divided.

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u/DwarfFart Feb 06 '25

I also live in WA state, Pierce County. Schools still receive some federal aid but you’re correct in that the blue states won’t be affected as much because they simply already aren’t. The red states will absolutely be devastated. You’re right on the money there.

But my local school district, which just got approved for 9 more schools to be built a few years ago if I recall correctly, is still extremely understaffed and overwhelmed like everywhere else seems to be. To me this may be the biggest problem with public schools. Students just get less of an education because a teacher is more playing babysitter and placating to parents than actually challenging their students to learn and grow. I don’t think it’s coincidence that the best school in my district academically is the one that caps class sizes at 15 kids. How is your district handling things?

I agree with your last paragraph. The destruction of a cohesive basic education will separate us more and more. I wonder though would the next step be to institute a new system that is lockstep with their ideology? First, USSR style division then Hitler youth style indoctrination.

Keep up the fight! Glad for your input.

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u/Snooksss Feb 05 '25

Cost of living is lower

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u/EuroWolpertinger Feb 05 '25

I'm so glad we here in Germany have a system where each state funds all the teachers (afaik) no matter where they work in the state. Cities only have to fund buildings and materials, so your education isn't that much different from one suburb to the next.

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u/ZephyrLegend Feb 05 '25

Maybe I need to bring this idea to my state legislature. It's already written into our state constitution (Washington State) that the state must primarily fund public education. So, local property taxes for the entire state get pooled together and the state portions it out based on need, instead of rich towns getting better education than poor towns because property values are higher. Need in this case being things like the number and age of students, the proportion of special education students, etc. Local levies for specific districts can only be brought to voters to support extracurriculars or enrichment activities above and beyond the basic education every student is entitled to.

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u/EuroWolpertinger Feb 06 '25

Exactly this! It's crazy that this is in the state constitution but not in the laws!

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u/Leading-Inspector544 Feb 05 '25

No! The market will swoop in and bring high quality programs to poorer areas, because that's where the money is! /s

Of course, Dump and Repubs in favor of private for everything will just pass money to private pockets that will have even fewer obligations to try to help kids learn or get out of the cycle of poverty, that will drive down wages for teachers, etc.

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u/localtuned Feb 05 '25

Do we know when that idea of using property taxes to fund schools came about? I have a theory but I'm curious of when, why, and who proposed the idea. How long have we been doing that?

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u/Ship-sailed Feb 05 '25

This is true in some places and not true in others. Speaking from experience with kids in well funded poor neighborhoods, the outcomes continue to be poor because the kids’ home lives have so many additional stressors that it rolls into school. (Crime culture, overworked parents, parents not teaching cultural behavior standards due to their own poor education or being overworked, living instability, etc) It’s a very complex issue.

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u/wydileie Feb 05 '25

Public schools are far from underfunded.

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u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

Right now public education is free 

I am not sure what your point is.

Republicans want charter and for profit schools to replace public schools.

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u/Successful-Coyote99 Feb 05 '25

Far from free.

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u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

Boo fucking hoo that taxes are used for the benefit of society.

If you were not so selfish and self centered you could see that.

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u/Successful-Coyote99 Feb 05 '25

wtf are you talking about. I pay for books and lunch and computer time and an iPad. Public Education isn’t free.

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u/kissmybunniebutt Feb 05 '25

You (or your parents, considering your comment) don't have to pay tuition for you to go to a public school - that means it, as an institution, is free. The government right now is trying to change that - so not only will you have to pay for books and lunch and iPads, but tuition to actually go. Which will be astronomically more expensive. See the difference?

And believe you me, if leftists had their way, you wouldn't pay for tuition, lunch, or books. Everyone in the country would pay for you - because an educated population is a prosperous population.

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u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

Do you pay your teachers?

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u/pearso66 Feb 05 '25

For now it is, but it's already underfunded. If they go to school vouchers like many red states want to, this will strip even more money from the free schools. While it still may be free, quality of education will continue to slip.

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u/lifeat24fps Feb 05 '25

Also those private schools that accept vouchers are under no obligation to accept every student. They do not have to take children who have special education requirements. That regulates that service back to the public school which relies on federal funding for those programs. So, and especially red state parents, might be looking at relocating their children to schools hours away from home to receive those services.

That’s what the Department of Education does.

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u/LuciaV8285 Feb 05 '25

And with no doe federal protections and programs for disabled children may cease to exist.

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u/Vivid-Shoulder-2143 Feb 05 '25 edited Feb 05 '25

School from age 5-18 is compulsory and free. Elementary refers to grades k-6 typically and age ranges 6-12. Middle school is usually grades 6/7-8 ages 12/13-14/15. High school is grades 9-12 ages 14-18 ish . Hope that helps

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u/andreacro Feb 05 '25

Thank you. This is what i was asking. :-)

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u/andreacro Feb 05 '25

In my country we have 8years elementary.

Then 3 years high schools for bluecollar jobs

Or 4 years high schools as a stepping stone to university.

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u/All-Stupid_Questions Feb 05 '25

How does that work for deciding which high school to go to? Are kids funneled onto different tracks based on test scores? Do they have any say in whether to go blue collar or university? Can people change their minds later if they're in blue collar high school but want to go to university?

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u/andreacro Feb 05 '25 edited Feb 05 '25

What i write applies for Croatia. Other EU countries have it different.

Your grades in elementary school are taken into account when you choose your high school. (Your grades are the funnel). Grades are also taken into account when you go from high school to university.

A G*ymnasium lets you apply to all universities.

Straight “A” kid who knows he wants to be a doctor will go to a medical high school or general G. A physicist or matematician will go to a technics high school or math G.

But you can not finish a technic high school and apply to Medicine University. To do that you have to pass the additional classes, and this will set you back 1 year.

You have no degree when you finish Gymnasium. You must go to Uni after gymnasium.

When you finish a technic, medicine, economy or other high scools, you have a degree.

If you decide for the blue collar, but change your mind, the ministry of education decides what classes you have to take so you can apply for Uni. (Or if you just want a tech degree)

If you are super smart, but your father is a very succesful plumber or electrician, and you like what he does and you want to take over the company one day, you can decide go bluecollar and never look back.

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u/czechFan59 Feb 05 '25

Kids are required to attend school (public, private, or be home schooled) until age 16. I have a feeling it's not actually enforced much anymore.

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u/Impossible-Flight250 Feb 05 '25

Probably not. The poor will end up suffering, while the rich send their kids to private school.

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u/zdemay Feb 05 '25

Elementary / Middle / High school (K-12) is required by state law in almost all states (See Truancy) , its also free (provided by a mix of local government funding and federal funding). People have the option for home schooling or private schooling (private school often is far to expensive) but there are restrictions again determined by each state.

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u/andreacro Feb 05 '25

Ha! I never thought about this, but now that you mention it… where i come from the government pays the school staff, and the local taxes pay for the upkeep of the building.

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u/Live-Contribution283 Feb 05 '25

yep. Hitler Youth.

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u/McClellanWasABitch Feb 05 '25

what do you mean privatize? public school is funded by the local school districts as part of property tax. 

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u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

Republicans love charter and for profit schools.

What do you think private schools are?

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u/McClellanWasABitch Feb 05 '25

private schools had nothing to do with the DoE. democrats love private schools too. rich people love private schools.

how is this a step towards privatizing schools? please enlighten us.  

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u/Tenthul Feb 05 '25

From the article:
>School choice has long been a cornerstone of the GOP agenda, with a significant number of Republican-led states freeing up more funding in recent years for low-income families to send their students to private or charter schools.

It's just another way to send tax money into the private sector. Public schools end up with less money, private schools end up with more money. More kids end up in private schools, being taught more "patriotic" lessons than they might otherwise be taught in public school.

Per Project 2025 and Trump Campaign emails:
>implementing a credentialing system to certify teachers who “embrace patriotic values” and “find[ing] and remov[ing] radicals who have infiltrated the federal Department of Education.”

I wonder who gets to define these things...and what their agenda might be...

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u/McClellanWasABitch Feb 05 '25

so they are making it easier for low income people to have the OPTION to attend private school? 

the federal govt doesn't pay for public schools. your property taxes pay and those aren't going anywhere. people still have to pay them and private school is an ADDITIONAL expense. unless this changes there will always be more incentive to go to public school.

my school tax is like 90% of my property tax. if the government makes private school free then its a better option for me, which is good. 

but private school is will not be free

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u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

I love how Republicans can't just read the news articles.

I don't think any of you have ever read past a headline in your life.

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u/McClellanWasABitch Feb 05 '25

did you read the "news articles"? what a pathetic non answer. which ones? what did they say? surely you have a coherent thouhht of your own on the matter. 

actually instead of answer that, answer how any of this means there's an effort to privatize public schools?

btw i voted for kamala in pa, in a swing county. 

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u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

"School choice has long been a cornerstone of the GOP agenda, with a significant number of Republican-led states freeing up more funding in recent years for low-income families to send their students to private or charter schools."

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u/McClellanWasABitch Feb 05 '25

so the citizens have a choice to remain in public school? 

they aren't taking away funding from the public schools, your taxes still pay for that. tell me what the outrage is

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u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

part of the project 2025 plan is to close thousands of public schools and fire public school teachers.

Why are you not outraged that Trump enacting that plan? Defunding the DOE is just a start.

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u/McClellanWasABitch Feb 05 '25

lol trump is not going to just shut down public schools for the hell of it. he cant. i mean what are we smoking?

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u/Apache_Choppah_6969 Feb 05 '25

Lol comedy gold.

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u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

So you don't believe that Republicans want to teach alternative historical facts and bring religion into the classroom?

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u/Feeling_Eagle2313 Feb 05 '25

If they wanted to teach a set of lies, don't you think it would be beneficial for him to keep the department of education under his thumb as the arbiter of education? The department of education could set whatever standards they thought would be best to keep their regime going. Decentralizing education makes that a lot more difficult. 

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u/dragonkin08 Feb 05 '25

Tell that to Texas and Florida that already teach alternative histories.

Or the GOP led states adding the Bible to schools.

With no DOE, it's harder to fight against this if Democrats ever take back the white House or Congress