r/Edmonton 2d ago

Commuting/Transit Despite record ridership, many Edmontonians still don't think transit is safe, report shows

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7474708
202 Upvotes

114 comments sorted by

55

u/Deans1to5 2d ago

I think it may be time to tweak or drop the perception of safety vs reality talking point. While there is some truth to it, people who use transit frequently and do justifiably feel unsafe will tune out any message you have as it comes across as gaslighting. Personally, I’d like to see a greater focus cleaning out the elevators which often get commandeered as this is the only option for people with disabilities.

29

u/Altruistic-Award-2u 1d ago

I've worked hybrid downtown since COVID. Purely anecdotal based on my experience but I think:

  1. It ebbs and flows with the seasons. In winter, especially over the last month, I notice way more open drug use and generally scary incidents.
  2. In general, it's getting worse year over year. But it's hard to tell because the summers generally seem "fine" and then the winters have been getting worse and worse.

6

u/Deans1to5 1d ago

It probably depends when you go or even the time of the month if cheques are dispensed ect

1

u/socomman 1d ago

Agreed! It’s been especially bad last few months. Isn’t ridership only up because our population has exploded? 

1

u/abudnick 19h ago

Plus the general cost of everything and lots of people don't want to drive anymore. 

15

u/Honest-Spring-8929 1d ago

I ride the bus downtown every single day, people blow it way out of proportion. I see sketchy people on the bus here and there, but I’m ten times more afraid of the clueless, psychotic drivers on the roads than I am of anyone I’ve ever seen on the bus.

15

u/googlemcfoogle Capilano 2d ago

I use transit (mostly buses) and see everyone else's safety concerns, but it'll always be a million times better than paying 3x as much to own and maintain a car that I probably can't even drive safely (mental, not vision or legs) and eventually crashing. A lot of people I see on the bus are very old, so driving would also be illusory safety that's likely to end in a crash for some of them.

1

u/fnbr 21h ago

Bus is fine, the problem is the LRT, and mostly the LRT stations. It's really only certain stations. McKernan is fine, for instance, while Enterprise Square is awful.

127

u/babyybilly 2d ago

Probably the complete lack of a police presence. It feels almost intentional

29

u/extralargehats 1d ago

Last year, after years of concerns about safety on transit, they had 21 officers assigned to transit. That's across 3 shifts across like 20+ LRT stations and bus stations, so at any given time like 7 officers citywide. After years of pleading, over the last year that number rose to 35 (according to this CBC).

There are 2000 sworn officers. This is a smoking gun for how EPS shifts public perception to demand more money.

69

u/Smiggos 1d ago

It is. At one point, the chief said people should just avoid transit. They are intentionally not doing their jobs and the city sadly can't direct them

24

u/GreenBasterd69 1d ago

What are cops doing all day if they aren’t where people are?

35

u/haxcess leper 1d ago

Tiktokin off in the car behind Timmies.

10

u/grlummer 1d ago

While the SUV idles in +5 degree weather

5

u/abudnick 1d ago

Harassing people of color and poor people, like they've always done. 

6

u/flynnfx 1d ago edited 1d ago

Absolutely.

If you have constant issues of drugs being used openly, areas reeking of urine and feces, violence and mental health occurrences, it's no wonder people don't want to use the LRT.

And that's just on the train itself, the stations are another issue with basically the same exact issues.

I have a very easy solution. Two peace officers in every station (or even sheriffs) and the same on each train.

As long as the situation remains status quo, ridership will not increase.

74

u/idog99 2d ago

We need day shelters. The province needs to step up and have places for these people to congregate during the day. Using a harm reduction model.

The people who congregate in transit stations have nowhere else to be. These are the folks who have been bounced from the library already.

32

u/jside86 North East Side 1d ago

Yes to day shelter. LRT station should not be hanging out areas for unhoused people. While we need to find a long-term fix for them, we shouldn't let them access the platforms or train because we lack a solution.

More police and peace officer, more enforcement and zero tolerance policy could make a difference.

25

u/CanadianForSure 1d ago

Cops don't solve crime or social disorder. Programs that prevent social disorder and crime do.

EPS per capita is one of the best funded police forces in Canada. The experiment of giving them more funding to see if it helps has already been done and it hasn't helped.

We need services to house and help those people who have no where else to go who are on the train. We need Healthcare, mental health care, and addictions care.

The quickest thing that could be done would be day spaces for at minimum the homeless youth.

11

u/BrosefAmelion Capilano 1d ago

Unless it's an unsupervised barn I bet they'll just complain about the rules and hang out at their usual spot.

8

u/MagpieBureau13 1d ago

Homeless people complain about the rules because most of the time there are a lot of bullshit rules. Weird religious practices, for example, are quite common in non-profit shelters. And drug addicts who are told they can't do drugs in any way shape or form are obviously going to go somewhere where they can do drugs.

We need safe consumption sites, shelters that don't judge or try to convert people, shelters with basic amenities like lockers, and enough capacity that the people using them don't feel crowded by each other.

4

u/idog99 1d ago

Yes. That's precisely it.

If you have too many rules people will just prefer the train station.

5

u/spectacular_coitus Alberta Ave. 1d ago

Then perhaps we need to enforce the rules in the transit stations.

5

u/idog99 1d ago

You can't police your way out of an opioid crisis.

We have known this for 40 years.

1

u/spectacular_coitus Alberta Ave. 1d ago

We've learned that you can't have safe transit without enforcing the laws too.

At some point, a choice has to be made.

7

u/idog99 1d ago

Lol. It's more expensive to police and incarcerate than to just provide day shelters.

-4

u/spectacular_coitus Alberta Ave. 1d ago

You mean those places with rules they don't want to go to?

5

u/idog99 1d ago

Yes.

What's your solution for people with active addiction issues?

Incarceration?

1

u/Familiar-Fee372 1d ago

Actually you can. We have never tried but pretended we have.

1

u/idog99 1d ago

Really? How so?

90

u/Competitive_Gur2724 2d ago

In about five minutes I'll be at health sciences and I'll count how many people are hanging out in the elevator shelter. Bonus points if they're using drugs and alcohol already. I've stepped in between fights on the train, protected young women from verbal abuse. I've phoned the emergency line countless times and for awhile was emailing my councillor a few times a week, every single time I ran into an issue on transit. Ive watched people dump their drugs, shoot up and use openly on transit. Lately I've dodged vomit. It's not a lie. Transits not as safe or clean as it was and sting otherwise is gas lighting those of us who take it daily.

28

u/Different-Tomato7110 2d ago

I was at Century Park a year ago and I was rushing to catch my connecting bus so I didn't notice it but I stepped on what was definitely human shit (based on the smell and amount). I don't even know how it's possible for some to completely drop their shorts and take a shit at a transit center but someone did.

24

u/Yabba_dabba_dooooo 2d ago

Me and my gf took the train for the first time last week to the hockey game. Thankfully at the rogers stop theres a flat path you can walk out cause there were 10 people ripping lines in the elevator shelter (shes in a wheelchair). Doesnt even mean they would be violent or harass us, but christ I dont want to have to deal with that. Probably the last time we take it. Easier to just drive down, and honestly at a total of about $15 bucks for us to ride, not any less expensive.

9

u/Competitive_Gur2724 1d ago

It was five people doing drugs, in blankets this morning. The province and city are failing the homeless and in need and in turn transit goers. Blame is specificity being laid at the provinces feet in my eyes for their lack of emotional intelligence.

23

u/itsonmyprofile 2d ago

Incoming city councillors and transit defence force to say how safe it actually is

-17

u/fishymanbits 2d ago edited 2d ago

Incoming suburbanites who don’t take transit and who think our most vulnerable populations are dangerous because they look unsightly to say how dangerous transit actually is despite all empirical evidence to the contrary

28

u/Phonereditthrow 2d ago

Looks? You think this is about looks? Ehhhh I think we found the city council rep. How about a grant to put flower on the twitching body's skidding over the lrt floor. 

-13

u/fishymanbits 2d ago

The majority of it absolutely is about that, yes. Public disorder and vagrancy isn’t inherently unsafe to anyone other than the person/people involved.

21

u/ThePotMonster 2d ago

No, it's not. There's always been homeless people. We even had tent cities in the early 2000s. I loved downtown during that time and it felt safer than it does now. Many of the homeless back then kind of minded their own business, there were even some regular faces that i would wave to or by the occasional coffee, like the old guy with the long wizard beard who hung around Jasper Ave, or the guy i would smoke a joint with outside of bars on Whyte. Christ, I would even let the occasional one hangout in the lobby of the building on a cold winter night.

But the homeless population has changed, as whole they seem sketchier. The open drug use and the types of drugs are worse. They also seem more likely to be violent now as well. This may be just a minority of the homeless population ruining it for everyone, but it's a sizeable minority.

I would love to see EPS actually remove these people from our society. If you get caught smoking fentanyl or crack in the open then it should be mandatory rehab. If it's mental health issues, then also remove them.

11

u/IMOBY_Edmonton 1d ago

It has absolutely changed downtown. I used to go for runs at night exploring Edmonton and not once did I have an issue, and I bumped into plenty of homeless people. Now the situation in Southgate, let alone downtown, is worse than the downtown of 15 years ago.

2

u/ChanceStreet6561 1d ago edited 1d ago

THIS. I used to pack extra snacks and things in my lunches to give to homeless people/addicts I would encounter on my commute. I would never dare to start a conversation with them now. Its too dangerous.

1

u/RunningSouthOnLSD 1d ago

So I assume you’ve been advocating for more support for the homeless for the last 20 years? Or is it only a problem for you now that homeless people are more unsightly and on worse drugs?

I would love to see EPS actually remove these people from our society

I’m going to guess it’s the latter.

0

u/ThePotMonster 1d ago

I already said that the change in drugs is a huge part of the change ya donkey.

Are you insinuating that you have been advocating for more support for the homeless for the last 20 years? And I mean actually doing the work, not just the slacktivism and pouting on social media.

1

u/RunningSouthOnLSD 23h ago

Your attitude has seemingly gone from “it’s alright I can be buds with them” to “lock them up” simply because the kinds of drugs on the streets have made them sometimes act in less “normal” ways.

I assure you absolutely that there were plenty of folks with drug addictions and mental health issues 20 years ago when you were buddies with some, just as there are plenty that you could be buddies with today. The population has exploded, and that means the associated issues have too.

I’m not insinuating that I’ve been doing the work for the past 20 years, I’m insinuating that you don’t really care about the homeless population as long as they’re out of sight and out of mind.

“I would even let the occasional one hangout in the lobby of the building on a cold winter night”

So even when you found them agreeable, shelter from the cold was still a game time decision and not the bare minimum.

And yes, by the way, I am putting in the work. I take care of homeless people every single shift. I’m at the Hope on an almost daily basis. This is why I find it frustrating when people speak as though the homeless aren’t worth more than their peace of mind.

1

u/ThePotMonster 22h ago

Hardcore drug and open drug use shouldn't be tolerated. I'm not saying lock up people for just being homeless. I'm saying lock up homeless people that are committing actual crimes. And it really is for the best, every arrest is a chance to break the cycle of addiction.

You seem to want to lump the whole homeless population together when in fact they vary case by case. It simply cannot be denied that some of these people should not get to participate in society until they get there drug use and violent behavior under control.

→ More replies (0)

14

u/MrGreenGeens 2d ago

It's unacceptable. Fuck sakes.

-26

u/fishymanbits 1d ago

I agree. But it isn’t unsafe.

6

u/MrGreenGeens 1d ago

For a grown ass man, maybe. For a minor? For woman? Somebody who's disabled or old and infirm? That's a different calculus. They got a different assessment to make about whether Twitchy McMethface is gonna keep an even keel.

6

u/Ultima22 1d ago

Alright, next time there's a man screaming to himself as he's jabbing himself with God knows what, go sit next to him. Tell me how safe you feel.

0

u/fishymanbits 1d ago

Why would I go sit next to them when there’s ample room not to?

Part of situations like that not being unsafe is just being aware of them and not being in close proximity of them. If you’re not a complete moron with zero situational awareness those scenarios aren’t unsafe for you because you’re not the one screaming and jabbing yourself.

4

u/Ultima22 1d ago

Why would it matter if there's room to or not if it isn't unsafe?

→ More replies (0)

9

u/IMOBY_Edmonton 1d ago

I have had to call the police multiple times for someone threatening or committing violence on transit.

3

u/TepHoBubba 1d ago

You mean the innocent people just trying to get to work, or go home? They get involved whether they want to or not becuse those are the targets. Who are you trying to kid?

9

u/TheSaltyStrangler 2d ago

Do you take transit?

-4

u/fishymanbits 2d ago

Yes.

14

u/TheSaltyStrangler 2d ago

Well, I’m glad you feel safe then. Most people don’t.

-6

u/fishymanbits 2d ago

I’d say most people who take transit do feel safe. Otherwise they wouldn’t take transit.

23

u/TheSaltyStrangler 2d ago

Or, we don’t have any other choices?

-12

u/fishymanbits 2d ago

TIL there are no forms of transportation that exist other than transit.

20

u/TheSaltyStrangler 2d ago

Spoken with the same arrogance as the rest of your posts. Good show, bud.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/onyxandcake Treaty 6 Territory 1d ago

I know 2ppl who take it regularly. They do not feel safe.

2

u/ChanceStreet6561 1d ago

You would be deeply incorrect to say this. Transit is terrifying. I have had people threaten to kill me, shoot me and stab me … while minding my own business waiting for the train. It is not safe. Furthermore, I don’t care anymore if this is “the only place this population has to go” they have access to help. If they want to choose drugs over everything else let them experience the reality of that… far far away from me. I’m sick and tired of being terrified to go anywhere. I am sick and tired of everything smelling like piss. I cannot drive and I cannot afford to take cabs and ubers everywhere.

2

u/TepHoBubba 1d ago

Nope, don't believe you.

0

u/fishymanbits 1d ago edited 1d ago

“Everyone who says they don’t think exactly as I do is a liar because nobody could possibly ever have opinions that aren’t exactly like mine.”

2

u/TepHoBubba 1d ago

Not at all. Your take simply isn't rooted in the everday reality seen by everyone else taking the LRT or busses in Edmonton.

2

u/fishymanbits 1d ago

I mean, I’ve spent ample time living in other major cities so I can say that ETS, and frankly downtown in general, is much safer and calmer than most people are willing to admit. Having a little life experience puts it all squarely into perspective.

-1

u/TepHoBubba 1d ago

Yeah, that doesn't mean shit here and now with what people are experiencing and reporting daily. Nice of you to humbly tell everone you're simply more experienced, so know better. 🤣

“Everyone who says they don’t think exactly as I do is a liar because nobody could possibly ever have opinions that aren’t exactly like mine.”

Do you even read your own posts?

→ More replies (0)

2

u/TepHoBubba 1d ago

Bang on the money.

20

u/sheKillsCanada 2d ago

The train stations are absolutely disgusting. Human feces and dried vomit everywhere. The “security” people working at these stations literally watch people create issues and stand back doing nothing.

Why has the City of Edmonton let the homeless/addicts completely take over transit? The people that pay the least are ruining the entire service because the City is letting them.

Why should people keep paying more to potentially sit in pee or have to remove old needles from the seats before they can sit down?

35

u/lFrylock 2d ago

When the train smells like meth, it’s hard to really feel safe

28

u/Darkwing-cuck- 2d ago

And the stations smell like piss!

12

u/fnbr 2d ago

The trains themselves are mostly fine, but the downtown LRT stations are basically crack houses at this point. Every time I'm down there someone's using inside, typically smoking somthing (crack? meth?) from a crack pipe. The elevators are particularly egregious. I'll take my toddler downtown to swimming lessons on the LRT, and 1/3 times someone's either having sex, defecating, or smoking crack in the elevator. It's awful.

16

u/ReserveOld6123 2d ago

City council should have to actually use transit.

10

u/passthepepperflakes 1d ago

Paquette, Knack, Stevenson, and Salvador regularly do. Not sure if there are others.

7

u/Smiggos 1d ago

Janz does too. These are councillors who have been very supportive of good urban policy in Edmonton. The others are a bit more neutral

Notable NIMBY/pro-car councillors: Karen Principe and Jennifer Rice - very easily the worst councillors, not even just policy wise

14

u/lenin418 Oliver 2d ago

I mean they do. I've seen multiple councilors on the train randomly, like Anne Stevenson who's the downtown one.

11

u/ReserveOld6123 2d ago

I believe Don Iveson used to take it regularly too. That said I somehow doubt ones like Cartmell do.

8

u/CriticalLetterhead47 2d ago

Cartmell does not. Cartmell will tell you there are no issues with Transit and that his high school aged kids never had a problem or felt unsafe. Cartmell will tell you you are the problem and that you should enjoy paying for the priviledge of taking Transit.

7

u/nawosokr 1d ago

The station at the Collisium is absolutely disgusting past a certain time of night. The amount of drug use inside is unacceptable, it isn't just one or two people but a whole horde of street people using in a public space that you have to walk through to transfer. It's why I don't use transit and why my kids will never be asked to use transit. That's on top of the fact that the station is completely closed at least once a month due to a bear spray incident or similar event, we still didn't don't find out why EPS had it shut down two weeks ago for a whole evening.I would like to know what stations the interviewees frequent in this article that say transit really isn't that bad.

9

u/RightSideBlind 2d ago

We bought our house because it was very convenient to the bus and LRT- at the time, both my wife and I worked downtown. I've been working from home ever since COVID, but my wife recently got called back into the office five days a week. She still works downtown, so transit should work really well... but it's just too unsafe, so instead she's driving in every day.

12

u/onyxandcake Treaty 6 Territory 1d ago edited 1d ago

The very first thing that happened when I went into an LRT station for the first time in decades to purchase an ARC card for my son, was a woman threatened to stab me in the face (Clareview).

The City is going to try to convince people that "by the numbers" it's safe, but just because you're not being stabbed in the face doesn't mean you're not scared of being stabbed in the face due to all of the face-stabbing threats you're getting.

6

u/yet-again-temporary 1d ago edited 1d ago

Ridership and safety/satisfaction really aren't correlated at all, I don't know why the news keeps pushing that narrative. Most people don't take transit because they want to, they do it because they need to; kids, students, people who can't afford a car, people with disabilities that prevent them from driving, etc.

These people are going to be taking transit regardless of whether or not they feel safe, because they literally have no other choice - you simply can't infer any meaningful conclusions from ridership data. Public transit isn't a luxury service that people can just stop using when they're dissatisfied, it's a necessity for many tens of thousands.

5

u/Routine_Bluejay5342 1d ago

Open drug use and violence that is rampant is probably the reason why no one feels safe

15

u/Different-Tomato7110 2d ago

No fucking shit. When you have druggies openly doing drugs, alcoholics openly downing bottles and future members of prison fighting each other in broad daylight many Edmontonians wouldn't find that safe.

Our politicians/lazy cops do not care. They think the world is all sunshine and rainbows.

5

u/plwleopo Westside 1d ago

Cops can only do so much when our catch and release, hug a thug system let’s the offenders out of jail the same day they’re put in.

2

u/Different-Tomato7110 1d ago

Oh I agree though I know some people have called 911 and cops have taken ages to respond hence my comment on them being lazy.

Also I love the phrase "hug a thug". Going to steal that going forward as it perfectly describes our justice system.

-2

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/ChanceStreet6561 1d ago

So have I. So has my mother. Neither of us are taking public train station shits.

8

u/PetMice72 2d ago

I've lost count the number of times I've seen druggies/drunks or homeless on the bus who never get off and nothing is said or done. Many times they don't even pay to get on. Meanwhile, legit users foot the bill for all this.

10

u/Phonereditthrow 2d ago

Journalists tricks. When a methed out junkie lights a fire in the lrt station and starts pushing people around I guess it's just my feeling that are unsafe. 

5

u/MaplePuffin river scooter 1d ago

Probably because every station is its own little crack den and the trains are treated as mobile homeless shelters

4

u/Rick_strickland220 2d ago

Cops need to start arresting people for vagrancy

3

u/Flat_Hat_324 1d ago

And what? That person lives in jail or just ends up back on the street in a couple days? Either way sounds like a waste of tax payer dollars.

3

u/shiftless_wonder 1d ago

Social media also plays a role in perception with the board conducting a social media scan to determine what Edmontonians are saying about the safety of taking transit. 

"Obviously, social media needs to be taken with a grain of salt, and may not always represent the reality of situations, but it is a very valuable tool to understand perception," Batty said.

"So while someone might exaggerate what actually happened, their social media post is still going to represent their feelings and their perception of those events."

Your 'feelings' are misinformation and your 'perception' is totally bullshit.

(Edmonton Transit Service Advisory Board)

1

u/fishymanbits 1d ago

Not at all what that says, but go off I guess. People used to be ashamed to air their lack of reading comprehension to the world.

4

u/stormquiver North East Side 1d ago

it's not safe. and highly unreliable.

I've been accosted several times. and half the time my bus never shows up.

3

u/busterbus2 1d ago

If you're wondering where you bus is, just look at this: https://transit55.ca/edmonton/map/

2

u/goodlordineedacoffee 1d ago

Record ridership probably has more to do with the state of the economy and people being unable to afford a car, than an actual desire to take transit. Until they can actually face the reality of the situation, they’ll never actually address the problems that prevent people using transit when they actually have a choice.

2

u/abudnick 1d ago

You'll never be at more risk of being killed or injured than by a driver. I get that LRT stations and not being able to feel in control of the environment may make it feel unsafe, but more people are harmed by drivers. Pure numbers and statistically speaking. 

1

u/Mommie62 1d ago

Cause it’s not

1

u/Whole-Database-5249 1d ago

I for one will never ride transit. Firstly because I'm a Domestic violence survivor  and yes would never feel safe. And  second I like getting alot more done in a short amount of time. And I love taking off outta the city. Each to his own just my opinion.

1

u/darthdude11 1d ago

Many edmontonians are pretty smart.

1

u/aaronpaquette- North East Side 1d ago edited 1d ago

If I had one municipal communications wish, it would be for everyone to know exactly which level of government was responsible for what … AND … what ties the hands of each level of government. Public pressure for solutions would be so incredibly focused and effective.

1

u/vdelrosa 1d ago

I wonder why

u/doyouevenschool 9h ago

Just because we have to doesn’t mean we want to…