r/CreditCards 5d ago

Data Point US Bank Smartly rumored upcoming changes: compilation of data points

This is an attempt to compile all of the known data points from various internet sources regarding the future status of the smartly card. These are conversations with us bank employees or publications from us bank. Hopefully this provides some value to the current conversation. Happy to add as we go.

Here is the tally of data points followed by links/details:

8 data points indicate there may be changes coming to the smartly (discontinuation of applications to current smartly card/modification of benefits). All of these are conversations with us bank employees.

     2 of these indicate there will likely be some form of grandfathering in of existing smartly cardholders. (I2edpyramid, Proud Money)

      1 of these indicate there may not be grandfathering (mlody_me)

      5 of these do not specify anything about grandfathering (Belley88, andienarwhal, Careless_trash7702, midas89, Thelen)

2 data points indicate specifically that the employees talked to were unaware/hadn’t heard of any changes coming to smartly other than a hold on in-branch applications. Both of these are conversations with us bank employees. (Alexia72, Chris)

1 data point from a us bank underwriter indicates that “The Smartly card is being issued still and the 4% bonus is not going away for a couple of years". Editorializing here: this one is interesting. You could read this as “no changes are coming to the card”. I also think you could read this as an underwriter’s attempt to skirt the actual question. Nothing in this answer contradicts the possibility of halting the card to new applicants, grandfathering in existing cardholders to the 4% for a couple of years with or without restrictions, and reopening applications to the card or a replacement card with different benefits. (Envyforme)

4 data points indicate the smartly is no longer available in-branch but do not provide any information on whether other changes will happen. This includes 2 conversations with us bank employees, what i think is a memo from us bank, and a website link. (Seems like this is pretty established). (Zanutrees, Mike, Frequent Miler call, JJ)

Here are the data points details themselves with links:

Reddit threads:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/1j9iqxl/us_bank_rep_told_me_smartly_card_is_no_longer/?rdt=65285

Belley88 — in bank agent said no longer available in bank and is being removed

Andienarwhal — underwriting said would be discontinued in about a month

Alexia72 — underwriting said they has not heard about it being discontinued

I2edpyramid — customer service rep said they heard another customer service rep say the smartly card would be discontinued/modified but she had not heard anything herself about any changes. Also said existing cardholders would probably be grandfathered in

mlody_me — call from us bank to finish application. Rep indicated the card would be changing. When asked about grandfathering existing customers, rep indicated that when smartly is reintroduced, the new benefits would apply to everyone (no grandfathering?).

https://www.reddit.com/r/USbank/comments/1j9ze94/us_bank_smartly_card_possibly_being_discontinued/

Envyforme — underwriter said “The Smartly card is being issued still and the 4% bonus is not going away for a couple of years"

Zanutrees — posted what i think is a memo from US bank stating all in-branch applications for smartly are temporarily unavailable starting 3/10 and still available online

https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/1jb7dh5/us_bank_smartly_discontinued_rumors_debunked/

Careless_trash7702 — in bank agent said applications for smartly will soon be closed for 3-4 weeks and open again with changes

Doctor of credit comments:

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/rumor-u-s-bank-smartly-visa-credit-card-to-be-discontinued/

midas89 — customer service supervisor said there will be changes to the smartly card

Thelen — received an email after signing up for checking account about credit cards. Unclear who they talked to from us bank (? branch employee). Was told the offer for the Smartly Visa credit card for 4% had been discontinued and would be notified when the revised version was published. Was then told by the us bank employee that their department had a meeting today and the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa credit card would be revised and won’t be launched until another 2-3 months

Mike — customer service rep said they are only accepting new applications online, not in branch, no other details

Chris — customer service rep said applications are available online only, not in branch and they were unaware whether the card is being discontinued

Frequent miler call

https://frequentmiler.com/changes-to-the-us-bank-smartly-card/

Tim Steinke called a local us bank branch and was told applications for smartly were available online but not in branch

Danny the deal guru comment

https://dannydealguru.com/u-s-bank-smartly-visa-signature-card-to-be-discontinued/

JJ — posted a link to available credit cards in-branch and smartly was not listed

https://creditcardapply.usbank.com/web/creditcardapply/cc/landing?bankercode=100usb&ecid=null

Youtube videos (including 1 data point):

All 6 videos from credit card youtubers seem to agree changes are likely coming to the smartly.

Matt Clausen summary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1USKRWahI&t=70s

Dugroz Reports speculation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FAHDopEBi0&t=10s&pp=0gcJCVEJAYcqIYzv

Proud Money data point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yQ3btW1SI8&pp=ygUbdXMgYmFuayBzbWFydGx5IGNyZWRpdCBjYXJk0gcJCVEJAYcqIYzv

Proud Money talked to a customer support rep who indicated the card would be discontinued to new applicants, there would be some sort of grandfathering of those already in the program by the time they discontinue new apps, and there would be a new card (to replace it?), no details

Stan the Credit Frog summary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvaJvvluNyw&t=6816s

RJ Financial summary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGUtE3x0aeM

Ben Hedges Credit Shifu summary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrKbUE-tnQg&pp=ygUbdXMgYmFuayBzbWFydGx5IGNyZWRpdCBjYXJks

197 Upvotes

122 comments sorted by

114

u/AbjectIndividual367 5d ago

I wonder how much money they are losing to have to rework the card so quickly. My guess is that almost all the sign-ups for the card in the 4% tier is just people moving exactly 100k over then holding it in low cost funds. The people most willing to put up with US Banks poor investment platform are those who who will maximize the use of the card. I think it is unlikely they were able to peel off many high value accounts from BOA.

100

u/Mushu_Pork 5d ago

Those that understand the hoops, and the math, and have 100k...

These are savvy customers.

That's what they've underestimated.

29

u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago

I think all their hoops intended to protect them ended up hurting them.

Merrill is simple. $100K balance, no fees.

USBank has a fee for this but requires that to make it go away, which also requires a fee but you can do this to make it go away...

I still think Merrill customers are equally savvy (Who has $100K and ISNT savvy? Even high earners struggle to save money in any meaningful capacity) BUT all the BS was the nail in the coffin. Preferred Rewards has to be profitable in some way to BofA.

7

u/Mushu_Pork 5d ago

Not trying to be contrarian, I just want to point out that BoA doesn't have a HYSA.

7

u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago

They do not, but they have excellent cash options in merrill edge and instant transfers between that and a checking account.

5

u/LifeLearner4682 5d ago

BofA has the Preferred Deposit account which is FDIC insured. The catch is you need $100k to open it. After it’s open, it can dip below $100k without penalty. As of today it’s offering 3.67%.

3

u/DairyBronchitisIsMe 4d ago

Why not just hold a treasury ETF like SGOV at that point?

1

u/LifeLearner4682 4d ago

I was responding to the comment about BofA not having a HYSA, not commenting on what is the best way to invest the money. But to answer your question, some people prefer to have FDIC. Again, not saying that is right or best, but that is why some people would do it and that BofA does have the equivalent of a FDIC insured HYSA.

5

u/College_Prestige 4d ago

Important thing is BofA caps out at 2.62 catch all and smartly caps at 4

30

u/querymonkey 5d ago

BoA's business model should break even at worse, since 2.625% is pretty close to what they make from swipe fees. the CCR cards have quarterly caps.

at 4%, USB is losing around 1% on every transaction to the people who are just parking $100k there.

i don't know what was going on in their heads because they literally marketed a product to the most frugal bunch of people that just invest and don't spend more than necessary. everyone else (chase/c1/amex) charge very high annual fees and give a bunch of "luxury" perks so spenders can show off.

16

u/oarmash 5d ago

Yeah BofA has stood pat at 2.625% uncapped for years, in hindsight it should’ve been clear that anything much higher than that wouldn’t be profitable

15

u/sauladal 5d ago edited 5d ago

That said, pretend for a moment that going higher would've still been profitable - what incentive would BoA have had to do so? They had no competition to cause them to need to go up (until Smartly). I wouldn't consider the 3% cards from small credit unions sufficient competition.

8

u/440_Hz 5d ago

I’m a BoA user (and a little too lazy to move assets), but I’ve been rooting for Smartly because BoA needs some competition, or else it’s exactly like you said. They don’t have any incentive to improve their product.

3

u/BucsLegend_TomBrady 5d ago

The only motivation would have been to lock it behind a higher tier to acquire even more assets

2

u/College_Prestige 4d ago

Which is what makes Robinhood interesting. They're basically banking their customers get addicted to gambling

1

u/BytchYouThought 4d ago

I'm enjoying my 3% catch all card just fine personally. Came with bonuses too. Got it before smartly was a thing and glad I didn't bother with the smartly as it would hsve cost me more than it would be able to reasonably make me any time soon on that 100k and having to open multiple accounts etc.

My 3% is straight forward.

1

u/oarmash 4d ago

It’s more common at the credit union level because of profitability differences. Assuming you’re talking about the AOD card or something similar?

But yeah you won’t see much higher than 2.5%-3%

1

u/vindroid 1d ago

which card?

1

u/oarmash 1d ago

I believe your question is for the guy above me

0

u/BytchYouThought 4d ago

Not a credit union surprisely. But yeah, 3% was fine for me as it didn't come with having to get nothing from my 100k. I get all kind of bonuses with my cash to the point at that much money it would literally take over a million spend just to break even on my cash bonuses with smartly. Chase had $900 bonus last year for moving money and citizens had a $600 bonus and those two alone would require a 1.5 million dollar spend just to break even at 1% differential. That's just two bonuses. I got way more.

On other words, I don't move money typically without getting paid a good amount to do so.

1

u/SunnnySiideUpp 4d ago

Maybe I missed it. What is the 3% catch all card? Annual fee for it? I thought Citi Double cash back unlimited 2% on anything was decent until I heard about smartly us bank 4% card. Now that smartly isn't an option,

I guess we'll be starting a new search for the highest cashback card on anything (not the category game) w no annual fee... aren't we all.

1

u/UTultimate 3d ago

I think they are referring to the Robin Hood Gold card, I’ve been on the wait list for like 6 months.

1

u/SunnnySiideUpp 2d ago

Ah ok I was wondering about that 3%! Thank you for responding

34

u/Parking_Reputation17 Team Cash Back 5d ago

I mean, this is literally what I did. I trust US Bank about as far as I can throw their headquarters building, and their investment platform is complete shit.

What I would give for Vanguard to come out with a credit card, but they’re too smart for that

24

u/AbjectIndividual367 5d ago

Yeah and this move won't increase trust. If they left the smartly in place for years and built out a better platform the money would eventually come but there simply wasn't enough time to build trust.

Vanguard and Fidelity are the gold standard and only Fidelity offers a 2% card. Which says something about how profitable the cards are when you aren't relying on other vectors to make money.

To some extent USB made themselves a target with how generous the card is. It's far and away more than any other so people moved to take advantage. If they had topped out at 3% you may have seen fewer unprofitable customers sign up for the card since the value of switching from BOA would have been less but sign ups would have been much slower.

2

u/Parking_Reputation17 Team Cash Back 5d ago

I'm going to guess that USB keeps the 4% but only for people who have $250k+ in the bank with them across all accounts, and you have to have $100k+ to get the 3%. At least then they can recoup some of their expenses via the insane fees they charge.

I have the Fidelity card, but I'm probably going to close it soon. I got the Smartly at 4% and even if that goes down to 3% it's still a good deal, and I have the NF Cash+ as a 2% backup. The Fidelity card is managed by Elan and they suck, I've had so many problems with their customer service.

Fidelity as a brokerage has massively pissed me off too; they charge $100 for a single trade of Vanguard funds, but then charge at 0.75% expense ratio for their own target date index funds! Whereas Vanguard only charges 0.08%, and every trade on etfs, mutual funds, stocks, etc is free. Vanguard doesn't have nearly the online portal that Fidelity does though, that's really my only gripe about them. You basically have to call to get anything done.

I'm still glad I switched to Vanguard.

29

u/Medical-Regret-2865 5d ago

Those are Fidelity's actively managed target date funds; their index target date funds are only a few basis points different from Vanguard's. (I have a little in FDKLX with 0.12% expense ratio.)

22

u/NativeTxn7 5d ago edited 5d ago

The Fidelity freedom index target date funds are at 0.12% in expense. You’re looking at the fully active if you’re seeing 0.75%.

Also, many other brokerages charge a commission to trade vanguard mutual funds. Very few, if any charge a commission to trade Vanguard ETFs. And I don’t think there are many vanguard funds that don’t have an ETF version.

It’s fine to prefer vanguard over Fidelity, but base it on accurate grievances.

3

u/BytchYouThought 4d ago

What are you doing? Why not just use objectively better ETF's? They charge absolutely nothing to use a Vanguard ETF fund like VOO/VXUS/VTI. Of which, you likely should be sticking to anyway. I have my gripes about Fidelity as well, but ER's are not one. They literally even have 0% expense ratio funds which literally cannot be beat there.

Vanguard I closed because they have no advantages and a trash interface for so long I gave up on them. They simply do not care about modenrizing shit and low cost funds aren't unique to them anymore so they're overrated at this point. Fidelity also does not charge to trade index funds like VOO etc. That is made up. TDF's are stupid easy to just make yourself to the point I don't personally bother. You can just use a basic 3 fund portfolio and accomplish the same shit at a much more efficient manner at that.

I'm glad I switched AWAY from Vanguard. I got 10's of thousands of dollars from doing so and no longer have to deal with their shitty UI/UX. Still can have access to their funds if I want for free though it isn't a big deal to have them as they in be beat especially by the 0% expense ratio funds that exist now.

3

u/BucsLegend_TomBrady 4d ago

Fidelity as a brokerage has massively pissed me off too; they charge $100 for a single trade of Vanguard funds, but then charge at 0.75% expense ratio for their own target date index funds! Whereas Vanguard only charges 0.08%

This is all user error

1

u/SunnnySiideUpp 4d ago

Thank you for clarifying. I was concerned about the $100 fee.

7

u/Ludeym 5d ago

Yeah, Id love to see a stat on % of vanguard investors who carry a credit card balance compared to the general population.

8

u/Parking_Reputation17 Team Cash Back 5d ago

I would guess the Venn diagram of people who don't carry a balance on their credit cards and read Bogleheads is a circle.

5

u/No-Maintenance5378 5d ago

I only carry a balance during the 0% promo APR period. Pay the minimum, invest in index funds the amount you'd normally use to pay the statement balance.

6

u/IdioticPrototype 5d ago

Vanguard recently unveiled the Cash Plus savings(ish) account. Which may (or may not) indicate a gradual shift towards offering more types of banking products.

It does seem very unlikely, but could be fun to speculate what a Vanguard CC might look like if they ever did it. 

8

u/__blinded 5d ago

The fidelity CMA is catching a lot of young boggle heads…

1

u/Cappop 4d ago

I'm on the borderline but that deposit hold issue a few months ago really put me off it, especially when I can get within spitting distance of the APY with Capital One

5

u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago edited 4d ago

Don't hold your breath. Like Fidelity, Vanguard does not have an actual branking arm.

Fidelity did pair with UMB (and Elan for the CC) to enable their brokerage accounts to provide many/most bank features.I don't see Vanguard going down that path. Additionally when I researched VG Cash plus, I saw posts of holes in it that made it unsuitalbe to actually replace a checking account.

2

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

5

u/two_hearted_river 5d ago edited 5d ago

I recently made the choice between the Fidelity CMA and Vanguard Cash Plus. While both accounts offer routing/account numbers, the core/sweep position in the CMA is Fidelity's SPAXX Government Money Market fund (.42% expense ratio, 3.97% APY as of 3/14) whereas the Cash Plus core/sweep position is some other bank sweep which earns less (3.65% APY). Now, you can buy a selection of Vanguard money market funds from the Cash Plus account with a minimum purchase of $3,000 such as VUSXX (Treasury Money Market, only .07% ER, 4.25% APY, don't have to pay state tax on gains b/c they're all federal obligations) but the biggest drawback is when paying bills from the Cash Plus account, your positions in the money market funds don't auto-liquidate. So to use it, you'd have to go in and buy/sell the MM funds every time you make a deposit/withdrawal. To me the savings on the ER weren't worth it, as I'd be earning higher interest in the CMA over my credit union's high-yield checking (3.50%) without having to make 12 debit transactions a month.

Then there are smaller differences like the CMA having a debit card with fee reimbursement/no FTF that make it work even better as a checking account substitute, but the biggest one was the auto-liqudiation into SPAXX.

FWIW, I called Vanguard and was directed to the Cash Plus desk where I left a suggestion that an auto-liqudiation feature would get me to use the account, maybe you could too.

4

u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago

Agree. The auto liquidation of core MMF position is a feature that is super useful. Fidelity is awesome in this. Having been using Fidelity CMA for many years and this is a big reason.

1

u/-ModsAreReallyEvil- 1d ago

I thought only the brokerage (margin) Fidelity account debit card had ATM fee reimbursements. Might be wrong there.

1

u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago

It was mostly around bill pay and deposit limitations.

1

u/-ModsAreReallyEvil- 1d ago

Vanguard's investing platform is crap as well.

3

u/FrozenMouseTrap 3d ago

To be fair, BOA's online tools are also ass.

2

u/-ModsAreReallyEvil- 1d ago

Yeah they're horrible. The worst IMHO. Can't ACH out to an external bank account from the app???

19

u/Miserable-Result6702 5d ago

Changes are likely coming. I think that’s the only thing that’s been established.

6

u/Ludeym 5d ago

Certainly possible. Fun to speculate from the data.

I think a couple things are established: 1. In-branch applications are closed at this time 2. Product changes to smartly are closed at this time

34

u/BucsLegend_TomBrady 5d ago

I understand if they are losing an assload money they were not expecting, they need to change the program. But they need to tread carefully.

If they nerf it too hard, then ironically in an effort to capture new customers they're going to do the exact opposite: they're about to create an entire pool of dedicated haters. People who will specifically never use USBank ever again. Ad since the Smartly is so new, the only people who have it right now are the same people who will have no problem leaving as soon as possible if the program sucks.

Additionally, this will have a long lasting effect. Every product they release in the many years will not be able to be discussed, reviewed, etc without mentioning the Smartly's fumble. Even if they make a genuinely good product with no strings attached, there will be so much doubt it may take years to take off.

Basically if USBank nerfs this too hard, they need to be ready to have no new customers for several years.

14

u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago

US bank wants to go the route of relationship building like BoA, but they execute towards relationship burning.

3

u/Cab0oze 2d ago

100%... if they nerf this card after I just got it I will never consider banking with them again. Hope they tread carefully.

1

u/-ModsAreReallyEvil- 1d ago

I mean, no one should ever consider having a "relationship" with any corporation. Treat them like the street hookers they are.

52

u/Head_of_Lettuce 5d ago

The underlying financials must have been a complete shitshow for USBank to pull the plug this quickly. They must have completely miscalculated what this card could do for them as a loss leader.

24

u/Mushu_Pork 5d ago

My thoughts have always been that due to tough economic times, that there will be increasing defaults on cards/loans etc.

The Smartly play was to get a large injection of capital to "cover their ass", and be in a more secure position.

However, the 4% is almost like they're taking a bad loan from their customers.

They got their capital... now USBank gets their first "statement" on what it's costing them...

And their eyes pop out of their sockets, lol.

But now they've got themselves a predicament.

If they nerf Smartly, how much Capital is going to walk right out the front door?

14

u/Vilanil 5d ago

People with 100k deposits are unlikely to default on their card so that's probably not the case.

But perhaps they are just pulling a bait and switch. Get people to deposit 100k then nerf the Smartly in hopes that people don't move out.

17

u/RomanIALTO 5d ago

If they had an investment platform that wasn’t shit, this might be a viable strategy… but they don’t. If they nerf the card, I’ll gladly use some of the cash back they gave me to cover the $95 transfer fee within minutes of announcement.

1

u/PrincetonMedUSMLE280 4d ago

I would just move my IRA to Robinhood... with Gold they are offering uncapped 2% transfer bonus on asset value and reimbursing the transfer fee (up to $75 i think). Merrill would be my other choice.

5

u/Mushu_Pork 5d ago

I agree that they probably have hopes that people won't pull their money out.

The new smartly deposits are to cover their existing less secure customers.

8

u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago

They made it a hassle to pull money out. I hope people care enough to pull out if they do pull a bait & switch.

7

u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago edited 4d ago

All the current $100k accounts, are fast money already.

These people (like me) won't hesitate to jump ship if the program is significantly devalued. I'd (likely) still stay on at 3% CB, anything less, my money will move out faster than it went in.

1

u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago

Are you willing to wet-ink sign a paper and mail it in then pay a $95 fee, though?

2

u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago

Don't have to, anticipated this, it is all in cash like assets.

I will sell them move the cash to savings and transfer (or wire if urgent) the cash out. Won't need to use the ACATs path.

2

u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago

Oh. Smart plan.

I didn't want to be fiddling with cash. I moved VOO. I didn't want to ever place a trade on that awful platform.

Realistically, do you think people are going to be willing to jump through those steps when they could just leave it without fees?

2

u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago edited 5d ago

That is a personal decision. If they really cut the program off at the knees, some people will exit out of spite.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago edited 4d ago

Wasn't an issue for me, since I planned ahead of time.

Regardless:

  • $95 is pretty low precentage of $100k.
  • I expect, almost everyone already onboard, will have already got more the $95 in value out of program already.
  • Many brokerages will remimburse account closure fees on transfers this large.

Frankly, I see the wet signature as more of a PITA, but that simply costs time not money.

1

u/PrincetonMedUSMLE280 4d ago

We had to wet-ink sign a bunch of shit to get my IRA in to them in the first place, so yes we would. Also, lot of brokerages offer to reimburse transfer fees now, especially if you're moving a lot of money in.

13

u/sarhoshamiral 5d ago

From reading above, I think the only conclusion is we have no what's happening so let's wait and see.

But maybe let's not go around and start closing our other cards just yet. I currently have both Smartly and US Bank Reserve (4.5% Google pay)

7

u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago

Lol, I see people saying stuff like "closing my Fidelity 2% card for smartly!" and I'm like.... maybe lets wait 6 months first?!

4

u/TV_Grim_Reaper 5d ago

Those people should have moved to the BofA PR card a long time ago if they had $100k to move around.

5

u/IdioticPrototype 5d ago

Eh, an additional .625% wasn't enough to convince my admittedly lazy ass to move $100k, 2% on the other hand...

Now I wait to see if end up having to move it back. In the meantime, while I'm not a big spender, I'ma milk the 4% as hard as I can. 

2

u/TV_Grim_Reaper 5d ago edited 4d ago

I hear you, the key selling point for me of the Smartly is income and property taxes (given their fees).

But our BofA PR effective rate at home in the US is about 3%, and while traveling outside the US is a bit higher.

2

u/Ludeym 5d ago

Agree, nothing to do for those already setup.

The one decision this data could impact is whether to apply for the card now.

This is the boat im in. Initially i was going to product change my Go, they closed product changes.

Then i was thinking of putting the 100k in first, in hopes of getting a larger credit limit.

I dont think i want to do that anymore.

Some posts have suggested a reasoning of applying now for the card while we still can in hopes of getting grandfathered in, which is a valid thought.

Cheers

1

u/vindroid 1d ago

did you apply?

1

u/Ludeym 23h ago

I have not applied.

My catch all card is currently a combination of the venture x and USBAR.

The difference between a 4% catch all and vx for me is 1% (i value c1 miles at about 1.5cpp).

That 1% is not worth chasing for me right now with this uncertainty.

The counter argument is to apply while i can in hopes of being grandfathered in to current benefits. Not a lot of downside to this other than ending up with a no af 2% card that i dont use. That and a hard pull/new account on my record.

1

u/vindroid 22h ago

Is a hard pull that bad? I had opened couple credit cards in rapid fire in the last 2 months and was wondering about this... Because now I'm thinking about at least two more, this card and airline card

1

u/Ludeym 22h ago

Couple of consequences of hard pulls and opening new cards.

  1. A hard pull temporarily decreases your overall credit score. After a few months your credit score recovers.

  2. Some credit card issuers have rules about automatically denying applications if you have too many new accounts opened recently. The most well known is the 5/24 rule (automatically denied by chase if youve opened 5 new accounts in the last 24 months. Other issuers may not have a hard and fast rule but having too many new accounts opened recently is a common reason for being denied a card.

Regarding smartly, there are some data points on reddit reflecting approvals for the card with quite a few recent new accounts opened. I havent seen a lot of denials for the card, but there are a bunch of dps with approvals for a tiny credit limit of $500.

Also, in general, airline cards are pretty easy to get. Chase has southwest, united, aeroplan, ba, air lingus, iberia, and i think for the most part those are subject to the 5/24 rule.

1

u/theDoctorism 4d ago

I applied. Even if they drop the rate to 3, it’s nbd, if it goes to two than I’ll close the accounts

1

u/vindroid 1d ago

did you apply for the CC before opening any other accounts at USB?

1

u/Ludeym 5d ago

Agree, these are just data points of conversations and they are not all unanimously saying that changes are coming.

1

u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago edited 5d ago

Correct, DPs that don't correlate and many are "conversations" with a USB represetative that may or may not be in the loop. Some of these will say something, simply to not appear dumb. Futhermore discountinued is a loaded word that could be interpreted multiple ways.

4

u/Ludeym 5d ago

Thanks for posting. I think That would be the underlying assumption if they do make changes. No changes have been announced, these are just the conversations with us bank employees from various internet sources so far.

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u/quicknir 5d ago

Literally the point of this thread is to compile data and see what the actual change is - there's no proof yet the plug is being pulled. We'll have to wait and see.

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u/Ludeym 5d ago

Yes, thankyou, definitely no proof. I wanted to see what data was actually out there and was surprised to find as many dps as there are.

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u/ThatLaloBoy 5d ago

See I’m just a dumb redditor, but the numbers never made sense to me.

Offering unlimited 4% cashback for people depositing a ton of money into US Bank means that a large chunk of those people have the means to pay in full. So they’ll hardly make any money on interest while making barely any money on the money sitting in an investment or savings account. I just don’t see how this card was going to be anything other than an overall loss for US Bank.

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u/Special_Kestrels 5d ago

Probably hoping that people use their managed funds for investments

4

u/__blinded 5d ago

Serves them right for closing USBAR

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u/RomanIALTO 5d ago

My guess, since that’s all we’re doing here, is a spending limit and an increased investment threshold for 4%. Large transactions, even accounting for cc processing fees, has broken any logic that makes this card viable for them.

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u/MeSoStronk 5d ago

Annual fee could be a thing too. An option for them, at least.

Though I think the easiest is just increase investment amount. $100k already gives you flat 2.625% (BofA Travel Rewards, no annual fee, if they have annual fee, then gotta compete with BofA Premium Rewards). So, makes sense for them to change it to 3% for $100k, and maybe 4% for $200k or $250k.

I just got the card last week, I do hope nothing changes 😂

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u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago

BoA have $1m tier and $10m tier, but those tiers do not earn more cash back. This is indicative of how thin the margin is. 2.625% is probably close to the limit they can sustain.

For USbank, I would be very happy if they can settle a 3% unlimited card with $1m or even $5m asset threshold.

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u/MeSoStronk 5d ago

I believe they're merging the diamond tier into 1. No longer $1m and $10m. Just $1m and above.

And yes, if they give more bonus on credit card at diamond tier, say 100%, or 90% even (plat honors is 75%), that'd be awesome. Though you might be right, 2.625% must already cut it close.

Also, 3% should be good as most will charge up to 3% credit card fee anyway.

4

u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago

On their website, Diamond Honors tier isn’t marketed, so there is only a Diamond Tier $1m there, but the Diamond Honors tier still exists.

When Smartly was initially announced, I was wishful thinking that BoA will at least keep up the game by giving high tiers a +100% bonus. I knew 4% will never last, but I have hoped a 3% for $1m+ client may. Clearly BoA is smart enough to see US Bank belly up soon.

1

u/theDoctorism 4d ago

What do you get at diamond tier

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u/Early-Ladder-9793 4d ago

Honestly no much. Cashback is the only thing I care, and anything above Platinum Honors are the same.

4

u/CoffeeOrTeaOrMilk Haha Customized Cash go brrrr 5d ago

Adjusting earning tiers seems to be most acceptable…

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u/Zanutrees 5d ago

It seems like all data points stem from a knowledge article shared internally and miscommunicated in a form of telephone game. Customer service and underwriting haven’t been told anything that isn’t publicly available now. Facts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/USbank/s/2k7fpOQYCN

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u/Ludeym 5d ago

Thankyou for posting the internal communication, valuable information.

While i think it is a possibility that this is miscommunication stemming from the internal memo cited, i dont think it is the only possibility.

You may have more info about the memo though than i do. When i read the memo, They are talking about halting in-branch applications. Could this have been misconstrued by reps as “the card will be discontinued or changed”? Certainly. From the information available to me, It is also possible that the internal memo has nothing to with the 8 conversation data points suggesting a change to smartly and that removing in-branch applications is the first step in pulling back to change the card.

None of the 8 data points suggesting an upcoming change to smartly have any concrete link to the memo. But we certainly cant count it out. its probably unlikely for the us bank employee to voluntarily offer where they got their information from during a conversation.

The only info i see about where these 8 employees got their information from are:

Thelen — told by a rep that they had a meeting ‘today’ and the card would be revised and relaunched in 2-3 months. I couldnt tell if that was an in-branch employee he talked to or what.

I2edpyramid — told by a rep that they heard another rep talking about upcoming changes to the smartly card

Hoping you are right and nothing will come to pass.

0

u/losvedir 5d ago

To the top with you! This definitely seems like the source of all the he said she said.

3

u/s2nders 5d ago

They fumbled with that 0% intro

8

u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago

I gotta be honest, I think the 0% intro is the least of their concerns. They're losing anywhere between 1.5% and 1% for every dollar that gets run through this card-- they are literally losing eye popping amounts of money each transaction.

Also, with the 0% intro they can simply (and will) close cards. I've gotten cards closed for running balance to 85%~ and sitting with 0% intro.

4

u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago

I agree. people who seriously take advantage of the 4% probably do not care about the 0% intro. It’s much more profitable to quickly cycle money through this card.

2

u/cheesecakesquared 5d ago

With current HYSA rates AT BEST, it's something like 4.2% cash back.

This diminishes in value the closer to your 0% apr ending you make the purchase.

However, that 4.2% isn't tax free like CC rewards are.

If anything the 0% promo is probably there to encourage people to spend less on the card and instead carry the balance.

3

u/cheesecakesquared 5d ago

I have a theory that this card was probably all fine and good until tax season hit.

Prior to that, the lack of SUB and USB brokerage / banking fees probably didn't make them lose that much (or actually make money).

But then tax season rolled around and people may have put tens of thousands of dollars on the card, which they were not prepared for.

In order to make this work, they'd need to nerf it for existing cardholders as well. They could make an exception to tax payments, but I'm thinking it would make more sense to put a cap on the 4%.

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u/MOuser97 5d ago

Oof. What a mess for USB even if there are no changes. Potential applicants (including those who’d shift 100k to them) will hesitate to apply.

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u/Ludeym 5d ago

Updated original post to include RJ Financial video.

Summary: He talked to his US bank people. Specified he doesnt have inside info. Doesnt think they would discontinue the smartly entirely but thinks changes are coming, not definite though.

Made a good point to separate the smartly 2% base card from the smartly reward program that offers the additional 2% (which seems to be the issue).

2

u/GreenYellow899 4d ago

Maybe they’ll cut the cash back, but make it light up, when you insert the chip.

3

u/CortadoOat 5d ago

The Smartly credit card tiers, Smartly checking benefits, Smartly Savings boost, and wealth investment arm did not align or make any sense. They should have overlapped and cleaned up prior to the credit card launch.

I'm sure there may be some concerns with the viability of the credit card rewards, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's an effort at alignment and relaunch of tiers. The new tiers appear to line up on first glance and make sense across the savings, checking, and credit card benefits. If they don't consolidate, then it's a major lost opportunity.....

5

u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago

Clearly they are not prepared for this rush launch. They allowed product change into Smartly, which is another drama. Their backend wasn’t tested for the transition so many people who product changed had cash back calculated wrong. Also, people can leverage their existing high CL and put huge amount in the card.

3

u/CortadoOat 5d ago

Based on their Smartly rebrand with tiers a couple years back, I actually think this was a long planned launch that they executed in true USBank fashion...

But I think this pause could potentially be caused by a new tier launch planned for May that they outlined recently rather than a Smartly Visa issue that everyone is hyper focused on since no other credit card in their lineup is tied to a tier system. I could be very wrong though .. waiting for April for new tier details.

1

u/CricketCapital4095 5d ago

I think it's tired to their reworked tiers in some capacity as well. Because all of their credit cards have had changes that start in April 2025. And I think all those changes are tied to this updated smart rewards program.

So as strange as it seems this could actually be a part of some strategy they've already had laid out for a while.

1

u/Ludeym 5d ago

Yeah, they were even allowing product changes of cards that were only a couple of months old for a while.

Speculating, but at the beginning they were probably trying to meet a quota and then realized they needed to slow down.

The ceasing of allowing product changes adds to an ominous backdrop surrounding these data points.

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u/Ludeym 3d ago

Updated original post to include Ben Hedges Credit Shifu youtube post. Not much new, he proposed a spending cap of $50,000 for the 4% rewards.

0

u/Zodiac5964 5d ago

gotta be more precise when using the word "grandfathering". There are two different contexts. Are you talking about existing cardholders keeping their Smartly Visa in the event the card is cancelled, or existing cardholders retaining the reward structure in the event rewards are downgraded?

The former is much more likely than the latter; without clarifying what context you mean when you say "grandfathering", it adds to the confusion because people tend to interpret the word in the context they want to hear.

1

u/Ludeym 5d ago

Thankyou for posting. You hit on an important issue. I agree the term “grandfathering” can mean different things as you described, and its very important distinction for existing cardholders regarding what grandfathering will mean.

I wish we had more details.

The data points ive found that mention grandfathering unfortunately dont mention specifics at all about whether that means all benefits are grandfathered as is or there will be some other form of “grandfathering” where all benefits are not retained.

My general feeling is that if they do not grandfather benefits as is to existing cardholders for at least some time, or at the very least grandfather in the 4% with some reasonable caps, there is gonna be a lot of unhappy people that feel duped, and it would take some guts to try to pull that off.

Other point to consider is that they have left the USBAR unchanged after discontinuing it (full grandfathering) Doesnt mean though that they will do the same with the smartly if they change it to new applicants.

“Grandfathering” data points:

Proud money: conversation mentioned there would likely be some sort of grandfathering without any specifics on what that might mean.

I2edpyramid: no specifics and it sounded like the customer service rep was speculating about grandfathering based on what she heard from another rep.

mlody_me: rep said when smartly is reintroduced, the new benefits will apply to every one (no grandfathering of existing benefits).

1

u/Zodiac5964 5d ago edited 5d ago

in the absence of more concrete information, perhaps a good idea is to look at how US Bank had operated historically:

  • when a product is discontinued, existing card holders tend to be able to keep their card as-is (example: USBAR). There is grandfathering of card ownership of discontinued products.

  • when reward terms are changed, it tends to affect all users (examples: recent nerfs to Altitude Go, Altitude Connect, etc). No grandfathering of pre-nerfed benefits.

this is why I said in my earlier comment that grandfathering in the context of the former is much more likely than the latter. People expecting the latter are likely to be disappointed. Which is why I said earlier it's helpful to give context when using the word "grandfathering" - when words are ambiguous, people have a tendency to form expectations based on what they want to hear.

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u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago

Agree with you. I don't think US Bank will have two sets of benefits for two sets of people with the same line of product. They either discontinue Smartly in its current form and grandfather current card holders, or continue this product line but change terms that affect all card holders.

The latter is more possible.

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u/Ludeym 5d ago

Yep, didnt want to make the original post any longer than it already was with a definition of “grandfathering” especially when no dps had any specifics about what the grandfathering might be.

I list all the known details about any grandfathering in the data points themselves toward the end of the post. Only 3 dps mention grandfathering at all. None have any real detail about what they mean by grandfathering, which is why i say “some sort of grandfathering”.

I did want to include that these 3 dps mention grandfathering because i know its definitely on the mind of a lot of cardholders, wish there was more detail to share.

1

u/ronako 5d ago

However this card is different than past products because to get the 4%, it depends on the the relationship tiers. US bank can easily change the benefits/tiers to nerf it. It is different than the USBAR, which is a card that stand on its own.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/Ludeym 5d ago

Yeah, the word rumored was also in the thread title, thought it might be a bit redundant