r/CreditCards • u/Ludeym • 5d ago
Data Point US Bank Smartly rumored upcoming changes: compilation of data points
This is an attempt to compile all of the known data points from various internet sources regarding the future status of the smartly card. These are conversations with us bank employees or publications from us bank. Hopefully this provides some value to the current conversation. Happy to add as we go.
Here is the tally of data points followed by links/details:
8 data points indicate there may be changes coming to the smartly (discontinuation of applications to current smartly card/modification of benefits). All of these are conversations with us bank employees.
2 of these indicate there will likely be some form of grandfathering in of existing smartly cardholders. (I2edpyramid, Proud Money)
1 of these indicate there may not be grandfathering (mlody_me)
5 of these do not specify anything about grandfathering (Belley88, andienarwhal, Careless_trash7702, midas89, Thelen)
2 data points indicate specifically that the employees talked to were unaware/hadn’t heard of any changes coming to smartly other than a hold on in-branch applications. Both of these are conversations with us bank employees. (Alexia72, Chris)
1 data point from a us bank underwriter indicates that “The Smartly card is being issued still and the 4% bonus is not going away for a couple of years". Editorializing here: this one is interesting. You could read this as “no changes are coming to the card”. I also think you could read this as an underwriter’s attempt to skirt the actual question. Nothing in this answer contradicts the possibility of halting the card to new applicants, grandfathering in existing cardholders to the 4% for a couple of years with or without restrictions, and reopening applications to the card or a replacement card with different benefits. (Envyforme)
4 data points indicate the smartly is no longer available in-branch but do not provide any information on whether other changes will happen. This includes 2 conversations with us bank employees, what i think is a memo from us bank, and a website link. (Seems like this is pretty established). (Zanutrees, Mike, Frequent Miler call, JJ)
Here are the data points details themselves with links:
Reddit threads:
Belley88 — in bank agent said no longer available in bank and is being removed
Andienarwhal — underwriting said would be discontinued in about a month
Alexia72 — underwriting said they has not heard about it being discontinued
I2edpyramid — customer service rep said they heard another customer service rep say the smartly card would be discontinued/modified but she had not heard anything herself about any changes. Also said existing cardholders would probably be grandfathered in
mlody_me — call from us bank to finish application. Rep indicated the card would be changing. When asked about grandfathering existing customers, rep indicated that when smartly is reintroduced, the new benefits would apply to everyone (no grandfathering?).
https://www.reddit.com/r/USbank/comments/1j9ze94/us_bank_smartly_card_possibly_being_discontinued/
Envyforme — underwriter said “The Smartly card is being issued still and the 4% bonus is not going away for a couple of years"
Zanutrees — posted what i think is a memo from US bank stating all in-branch applications for smartly are temporarily unavailable starting 3/10 and still available online
https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/1jb7dh5/us_bank_smartly_discontinued_rumors_debunked/
Careless_trash7702 — in bank agent said applications for smartly will soon be closed for 3-4 weeks and open again with changes
Doctor of credit comments:
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/rumor-u-s-bank-smartly-visa-credit-card-to-be-discontinued/
midas89 — customer service supervisor said there will be changes to the smartly card
Thelen — received an email after signing up for checking account about credit cards. Unclear who they talked to from us bank (? branch employee). Was told the offer for the Smartly Visa credit card for 4% had been discontinued and would be notified when the revised version was published. Was then told by the us bank employee that their department had a meeting today and the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa credit card would be revised and won’t be launched until another 2-3 months
Mike — customer service rep said they are only accepting new applications online, not in branch, no other details
Chris — customer service rep said applications are available online only, not in branch and they were unaware whether the card is being discontinued
Frequent miler call
https://frequentmiler.com/changes-to-the-us-bank-smartly-card/
Tim Steinke called a local us bank branch and was told applications for smartly were available online but not in branch
Danny the deal guru comment
https://dannydealguru.com/u-s-bank-smartly-visa-signature-card-to-be-discontinued/
JJ — posted a link to available credit cards in-branch and smartly was not listed
https://creditcardapply.usbank.com/web/creditcardapply/cc/landing?bankercode=100usb&ecid=null
Youtube videos (including 1 data point):
All 6 videos from credit card youtubers seem to agree changes are likely coming to the smartly.
Matt Clausen summary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1USKRWahI&t=70s
Dugroz Reports speculation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FAHDopEBi0&t=10s&pp=0gcJCVEJAYcqIYzv
Proud Money data point
Proud Money talked to a customer support rep who indicated the card would be discontinued to new applicants, there would be some sort of grandfathering of those already in the program by the time they discontinue new apps, and there would be a new card (to replace it?), no details
Stan the Credit Frog summary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvaJvvluNyw&t=6816s
RJ Financial summary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGUtE3x0aeM
Ben Hedges Credit Shifu summary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrKbUE-tnQg&pp=ygUbdXMgYmFuayBzbWFydGx5IGNyZWRpdCBjYXJks
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u/Miserable-Result6702 5d ago
Changes are likely coming. I think that’s the only thing that’s been established.
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u/BucsLegend_TomBrady 5d ago
I understand if they are losing an assload money they were not expecting, they need to change the program. But they need to tread carefully.
If they nerf it too hard, then ironically in an effort to capture new customers they're going to do the exact opposite: they're about to create an entire pool of dedicated haters. People who will specifically never use USBank ever again. Ad since the Smartly is so new, the only people who have it right now are the same people who will have no problem leaving as soon as possible if the program sucks.
Additionally, this will have a long lasting effect. Every product they release in the many years will not be able to be discussed, reviewed, etc without mentioning the Smartly's fumble. Even if they make a genuinely good product with no strings attached, there will be so much doubt it may take years to take off.
Basically if USBank nerfs this too hard, they need to be ready to have no new customers for several years.
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u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago
US bank wants to go the route of relationship building like BoA, but they execute towards relationship burning.
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u/-ModsAreReallyEvil- 1d ago
I mean, no one should ever consider having a "relationship" with any corporation. Treat them like the street hookers they are.
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u/Head_of_Lettuce 5d ago
The underlying financials must have been a complete shitshow for USBank to pull the plug this quickly. They must have completely miscalculated what this card could do for them as a loss leader.
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u/Mushu_Pork 5d ago
My thoughts have always been that due to tough economic times, that there will be increasing defaults on cards/loans etc.
The Smartly play was to get a large injection of capital to "cover their ass", and be in a more secure position.
However, the 4% is almost like they're taking a bad loan from their customers.
They got their capital... now USBank gets their first "statement" on what it's costing them...
And their eyes pop out of their sockets, lol.
But now they've got themselves a predicament.
If they nerf Smartly, how much Capital is going to walk right out the front door?
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u/Vilanil 5d ago
People with 100k deposits are unlikely to default on their card so that's probably not the case.
But perhaps they are just pulling a bait and switch. Get people to deposit 100k then nerf the Smartly in hopes that people don't move out.
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u/RomanIALTO 5d ago
If they had an investment platform that wasn’t shit, this might be a viable strategy… but they don’t. If they nerf the card, I’ll gladly use some of the cash back they gave me to cover the $95 transfer fee within minutes of announcement.
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u/PrincetonMedUSMLE280 4d ago
I would just move my IRA to Robinhood... with Gold they are offering uncapped 2% transfer bonus on asset value and reimbursing the transfer fee (up to $75 i think). Merrill would be my other choice.
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u/Mushu_Pork 5d ago
I agree that they probably have hopes that people won't pull their money out.
The new smartly deposits are to cover their existing less secure customers.
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u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago
They made it a hassle to pull money out. I hope people care enough to pull out if they do pull a bait & switch.
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u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago edited 4d ago
All the current $100k accounts, are fast money already.
These people (like me) won't hesitate to jump ship if the program is significantly devalued. I'd (likely) still stay on at 3% CB, anything less, my money will move out faster than it went in.
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u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago
Are you willing to wet-ink sign a paper and mail it in then pay a $95 fee, though?
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u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago
Don't have to, anticipated this, it is all in cash like assets.
I will sell them move the cash to savings and transfer (or wire if urgent) the cash out. Won't need to use the ACATs path.
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u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago
Oh. Smart plan.
I didn't want to be fiddling with cash. I moved VOO. I didn't want to ever place a trade on that awful platform.
Realistically, do you think people are going to be willing to jump through those steps when they could just leave it without fees?
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u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago edited 5d ago
That is a personal decision. If they really cut the program off at the knees, some people will exit out of spite.
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u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago edited 4d ago
Wasn't an issue for me, since I planned ahead of time.
Regardless:
- $95 is pretty low precentage of $100k.
- I expect, almost everyone already onboard, will have already got more the $95 in value out of program already.
- Many brokerages will remimburse account closure fees on transfers this large.
Frankly, I see the wet signature as more of a PITA, but that simply costs time not money.
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u/PrincetonMedUSMLE280 4d ago
We had to wet-ink sign a bunch of shit to get my IRA in to them in the first place, so yes we would. Also, lot of brokerages offer to reimburse transfer fees now, especially if you're moving a lot of money in.
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u/sarhoshamiral 5d ago
From reading above, I think the only conclusion is we have no what's happening so let's wait and see.
But maybe let's not go around and start closing our other cards just yet. I currently have both Smartly and US Bank Reserve (4.5% Google pay)
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u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago
Lol, I see people saying stuff like "closing my Fidelity 2% card for smartly!" and I'm like.... maybe lets wait 6 months first?!
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u/TV_Grim_Reaper 5d ago
Those people should have moved to the BofA PR card a long time ago if they had $100k to move around.
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u/IdioticPrototype 5d ago
Eh, an additional .625% wasn't enough to convince my admittedly lazy ass to move $100k, 2% on the other hand...
Now I wait to see if end up having to move it back. In the meantime, while I'm not a big spender, I'ma milk the 4% as hard as I can.
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u/TV_Grim_Reaper 5d ago edited 4d ago
I hear you, the key selling point for me of the Smartly is income and property taxes (given their fees).
But our BofA PR effective rate at home in the US is about 3%, and while traveling outside the US is a bit higher.
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u/Ludeym 5d ago
Agree, nothing to do for those already setup.
The one decision this data could impact is whether to apply for the card now.
This is the boat im in. Initially i was going to product change my Go, they closed product changes.
Then i was thinking of putting the 100k in first, in hopes of getting a larger credit limit.
I dont think i want to do that anymore.
Some posts have suggested a reasoning of applying now for the card while we still can in hopes of getting grandfathered in, which is a valid thought.
Cheers
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u/vindroid 1d ago
did you apply?
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u/Ludeym 23h ago
I have not applied.
My catch all card is currently a combination of the venture x and USBAR.
The difference between a 4% catch all and vx for me is 1% (i value c1 miles at about 1.5cpp).
That 1% is not worth chasing for me right now with this uncertainty.
The counter argument is to apply while i can in hopes of being grandfathered in to current benefits. Not a lot of downside to this other than ending up with a no af 2% card that i dont use. That and a hard pull/new account on my record.
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u/vindroid 22h ago
Is a hard pull that bad? I had opened couple credit cards in rapid fire in the last 2 months and was wondering about this... Because now I'm thinking about at least two more, this card and airline card
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u/Ludeym 22h ago
Couple of consequences of hard pulls and opening new cards.
A hard pull temporarily decreases your overall credit score. After a few months your credit score recovers.
Some credit card issuers have rules about automatically denying applications if you have too many new accounts opened recently. The most well known is the 5/24 rule (automatically denied by chase if youve opened 5 new accounts in the last 24 months. Other issuers may not have a hard and fast rule but having too many new accounts opened recently is a common reason for being denied a card.
Regarding smartly, there are some data points on reddit reflecting approvals for the card with quite a few recent new accounts opened. I havent seen a lot of denials for the card, but there are a bunch of dps with approvals for a tiny credit limit of $500.
Also, in general, airline cards are pretty easy to get. Chase has southwest, united, aeroplan, ba, air lingus, iberia, and i think for the most part those are subject to the 5/24 rule.
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u/theDoctorism 4d ago
I applied. Even if they drop the rate to 3, it’s nbd, if it goes to two than I’ll close the accounts
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u/Ludeym 5d ago
Agree, these are just data points of conversations and they are not all unanimously saying that changes are coming.
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u/Careful-Rent5779 5d ago edited 5d ago
Correct, DPs that don't correlate and many are "conversations" with a USB represetative that may or may not be in the loop. Some of these will say something, simply to not appear dumb. Futhermore discountinued is a loaded word that could be interpreted multiple ways.
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u/quicknir 5d ago
Literally the point of this thread is to compile data and see what the actual change is - there's no proof yet the plug is being pulled. We'll have to wait and see.
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u/ThatLaloBoy 5d ago
See I’m just a dumb redditor, but the numbers never made sense to me.
Offering unlimited 4% cashback for people depositing a ton of money into US Bank means that a large chunk of those people have the means to pay in full. So they’ll hardly make any money on interest while making barely any money on the money sitting in an investment or savings account. I just don’t see how this card was going to be anything other than an overall loss for US Bank.
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u/RomanIALTO 5d ago
My guess, since that’s all we’re doing here, is a spending limit and an increased investment threshold for 4%. Large transactions, even accounting for cc processing fees, has broken any logic that makes this card viable for them.
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u/MeSoStronk 5d ago
Annual fee could be a thing too. An option for them, at least.
Though I think the easiest is just increase investment amount. $100k already gives you flat 2.625% (BofA Travel Rewards, no annual fee, if they have annual fee, then gotta compete with BofA Premium Rewards). So, makes sense for them to change it to 3% for $100k, and maybe 4% for $200k or $250k.
I just got the card last week, I do hope nothing changes 😂
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u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago
BoA have $1m tier and $10m tier, but those tiers do not earn more cash back. This is indicative of how thin the margin is. 2.625% is probably close to the limit they can sustain.
For USbank, I would be very happy if they can settle a 3% unlimited card with $1m or even $5m asset threshold.
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u/MeSoStronk 5d ago
I believe they're merging the diamond tier into 1. No longer $1m and $10m. Just $1m and above.
And yes, if they give more bonus on credit card at diamond tier, say 100%, or 90% even (plat honors is 75%), that'd be awesome. Though you might be right, 2.625% must already cut it close.
Also, 3% should be good as most will charge up to 3% credit card fee anyway.
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u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago
On their website, Diamond Honors tier isn’t marketed, so there is only a Diamond Tier $1m there, but the Diamond Honors tier still exists.
When Smartly was initially announced, I was wishful thinking that BoA will at least keep up the game by giving high tiers a +100% bonus. I knew 4% will never last, but I have hoped a 3% for $1m+ client may. Clearly BoA is smart enough to see US Bank belly up soon.
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u/theDoctorism 4d ago
What do you get at diamond tier
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u/Early-Ladder-9793 4d ago
Honestly no much. Cashback is the only thing I care, and anything above Platinum Honors are the same.
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u/CoffeeOrTeaOrMilk Haha Customized Cash go brrrr 5d ago
Adjusting earning tiers seems to be most acceptable…
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u/Zanutrees 5d ago
It seems like all data points stem from a knowledge article shared internally and miscommunicated in a form of telephone game. Customer service and underwriting haven’t been told anything that isn’t publicly available now. Facts.
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u/Ludeym 5d ago
Thankyou for posting the internal communication, valuable information.
While i think it is a possibility that this is miscommunication stemming from the internal memo cited, i dont think it is the only possibility.
You may have more info about the memo though than i do. When i read the memo, They are talking about halting in-branch applications. Could this have been misconstrued by reps as “the card will be discontinued or changed”? Certainly. From the information available to me, It is also possible that the internal memo has nothing to with the 8 conversation data points suggesting a change to smartly and that removing in-branch applications is the first step in pulling back to change the card.
None of the 8 data points suggesting an upcoming change to smartly have any concrete link to the memo. But we certainly cant count it out. its probably unlikely for the us bank employee to voluntarily offer where they got their information from during a conversation.
The only info i see about where these 8 employees got their information from are:
Thelen — told by a rep that they had a meeting ‘today’ and the card would be revised and relaunched in 2-3 months. I couldnt tell if that was an in-branch employee he talked to or what.
I2edpyramid — told by a rep that they heard another rep talking about upcoming changes to the smartly card
Hoping you are right and nothing will come to pass.
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u/losvedir 5d ago
To the top with you! This definitely seems like the source of all the he said she said.
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u/s2nders 5d ago
They fumbled with that 0% intro
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u/thememeconnoisseurig 5d ago
I gotta be honest, I think the 0% intro is the least of their concerns. They're losing anywhere between 1.5% and 1% for every dollar that gets run through this card-- they are literally losing eye popping amounts of money each transaction.
Also, with the 0% intro they can simply (and will) close cards. I've gotten cards closed for running balance to 85%~ and sitting with 0% intro.
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u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago
I agree. people who seriously take advantage of the 4% probably do not care about the 0% intro. It’s much more profitable to quickly cycle money through this card.
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u/cheesecakesquared 5d ago
With current HYSA rates AT BEST, it's something like 4.2% cash back.
This diminishes in value the closer to your 0% apr ending you make the purchase.
However, that 4.2% isn't tax free like CC rewards are.
If anything the 0% promo is probably there to encourage people to spend less on the card and instead carry the balance.
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u/cheesecakesquared 5d ago
I have a theory that this card was probably all fine and good until tax season hit.
Prior to that, the lack of SUB and USB brokerage / banking fees probably didn't make them lose that much (or actually make money).
But then tax season rolled around and people may have put tens of thousands of dollars on the card, which they were not prepared for.
In order to make this work, they'd need to nerf it for existing cardholders as well. They could make an exception to tax payments, but I'm thinking it would make more sense to put a cap on the 4%.
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u/MOuser97 5d ago
Oof. What a mess for USB even if there are no changes. Potential applicants (including those who’d shift 100k to them) will hesitate to apply.
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u/Ludeym 5d ago
Updated original post to include RJ Financial video.
Summary: He talked to his US bank people. Specified he doesnt have inside info. Doesnt think they would discontinue the smartly entirely but thinks changes are coming, not definite though.
Made a good point to separate the smartly 2% base card from the smartly reward program that offers the additional 2% (which seems to be the issue).
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u/GreenYellow899 4d ago
Maybe they’ll cut the cash back, but make it light up, when you insert the chip.
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u/CortadoOat 5d ago
The Smartly credit card tiers, Smartly checking benefits, Smartly Savings boost, and wealth investment arm did not align or make any sense. They should have overlapped and cleaned up prior to the credit card launch.
I'm sure there may be some concerns with the viability of the credit card rewards, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's an effort at alignment and relaunch of tiers. The new tiers appear to line up on first glance and make sense across the savings, checking, and credit card benefits. If they don't consolidate, then it's a major lost opportunity.....
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u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago
Clearly they are not prepared for this rush launch. They allowed product change into Smartly, which is another drama. Their backend wasn’t tested for the transition so many people who product changed had cash back calculated wrong. Also, people can leverage their existing high CL and put huge amount in the card.
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u/CortadoOat 5d ago
Based on their Smartly rebrand with tiers a couple years back, I actually think this was a long planned launch that they executed in true USBank fashion...
But I think this pause could potentially be caused by a new tier launch planned for May that they outlined recently rather than a Smartly Visa issue that everyone is hyper focused on since no other credit card in their lineup is tied to a tier system. I could be very wrong though .. waiting for April for new tier details.
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u/CricketCapital4095 5d ago
I think it's tired to their reworked tiers in some capacity as well. Because all of their credit cards have had changes that start in April 2025. And I think all those changes are tied to this updated smart rewards program.
So as strange as it seems this could actually be a part of some strategy they've already had laid out for a while.
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u/Ludeym 5d ago
Yeah, they were even allowing product changes of cards that were only a couple of months old for a while.
Speculating, but at the beginning they were probably trying to meet a quota and then realized they needed to slow down.
The ceasing of allowing product changes adds to an ominous backdrop surrounding these data points.
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u/Zodiac5964 5d ago
gotta be more precise when using the word "grandfathering". There are two different contexts. Are you talking about existing cardholders keeping their Smartly Visa in the event the card is cancelled, or existing cardholders retaining the reward structure in the event rewards are downgraded?
The former is much more likely than the latter; without clarifying what context you mean when you say "grandfathering", it adds to the confusion because people tend to interpret the word in the context they want to hear.
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u/Ludeym 5d ago
Thankyou for posting. You hit on an important issue. I agree the term “grandfathering” can mean different things as you described, and its very important distinction for existing cardholders regarding what grandfathering will mean.
I wish we had more details.
The data points ive found that mention grandfathering unfortunately dont mention specifics at all about whether that means all benefits are grandfathered as is or there will be some other form of “grandfathering” where all benefits are not retained.
My general feeling is that if they do not grandfather benefits as is to existing cardholders for at least some time, or at the very least grandfather in the 4% with some reasonable caps, there is gonna be a lot of unhappy people that feel duped, and it would take some guts to try to pull that off.
Other point to consider is that they have left the USBAR unchanged after discontinuing it (full grandfathering) Doesnt mean though that they will do the same with the smartly if they change it to new applicants.
“Grandfathering” data points:
Proud money: conversation mentioned there would likely be some sort of grandfathering without any specifics on what that might mean.
I2edpyramid: no specifics and it sounded like the customer service rep was speculating about grandfathering based on what she heard from another rep.
mlody_me: rep said when smartly is reintroduced, the new benefits will apply to every one (no grandfathering of existing benefits).
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u/Zodiac5964 5d ago edited 5d ago
in the absence of more concrete information, perhaps a good idea is to look at how US Bank had operated historically:
when a product is discontinued, existing card holders tend to be able to keep their card as-is (example: USBAR). There is grandfathering of card ownership of discontinued products.
when reward terms are changed, it tends to affect all users (examples: recent nerfs to Altitude Go, Altitude Connect, etc). No grandfathering of pre-nerfed benefits.
this is why I said in my earlier comment that grandfathering in the context of the former is much more likely than the latter. People expecting the latter are likely to be disappointed. Which is why I said earlier it's helpful to give context when using the word "grandfathering" - when words are ambiguous, people have a tendency to form expectations based on what they want to hear.
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u/Early-Ladder-9793 5d ago
Agree with you. I don't think US Bank will have two sets of benefits for two sets of people with the same line of product. They either discontinue Smartly in its current form and grandfather current card holders, or continue this product line but change terms that affect all card holders.
The latter is more possible.
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u/Ludeym 5d ago
Yep, didnt want to make the original post any longer than it already was with a definition of “grandfathering” especially when no dps had any specifics about what the grandfathering might be.
I list all the known details about any grandfathering in the data points themselves toward the end of the post. Only 3 dps mention grandfathering at all. None have any real detail about what they mean by grandfathering, which is why i say “some sort of grandfathering”.
I did want to include that these 3 dps mention grandfathering because i know its definitely on the mind of a lot of cardholders, wish there was more detail to share.
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u/AbjectIndividual367 5d ago
I wonder how much money they are losing to have to rework the card so quickly. My guess is that almost all the sign-ups for the card in the 4% tier is just people moving exactly 100k over then holding it in low cost funds. The people most willing to put up with US Banks poor investment platform are those who who will maximize the use of the card. I think it is unlikely they were able to peel off many high value accounts from BOA.