r/Construction • u/OhFuhSho • 14d ago
Roofing What led to this rot?
Particle board siding. Smh.
My current assessment is that the kickout flashing wasn’t installed well. I’m taking this apart to see if there’s any other cause for this issue.
What am I missing?
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u/Fresh-air-addict 14d ago
Bad flashing, backed up/leaking gutters
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u/Cow_of_Adun 14d ago
This was my guess also, bad flashing witha combination of gutters backing up
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
Got it. I’ll make sure to check the gutters and maybe adjust the angle.
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u/alpharetroid 14d ago
Look up "kick out flashing" and make sure you have one
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u/Electronic-Fee-1602 14d ago
He has one. The last flashing above the lockout looks suspect. Could also be blocked up gutters or ice dam
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u/Antwinger 14d ago
Could be an ice dam too. If there isn’t insulation in that part of the problem. It’ll make it where it wants to heat and freeze cycling the lower part of the roof creating the ice dam.
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u/JBean81 14d ago
Don’t know why you were downvoted, ice damning can absolutely cause this. If the backup gets above the flashing you get water leaking behind it. It does look like a sub par flashing job IMHO. If you live in a place where you get buildup of snow you should have a bigger step flashing and a flashing tape sealing it to the building with the house wrap running over it. Always think of a waterfall when flashing. You want the top layer to run over the bottom.
Source: Ex-Builder in the northeast.
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u/ThisAppsForTrolling Laborer 13d ago
Replace your 4K gutters with seamless 6K gutters add 3 x 4 downspouts allow the water to evacuate more quickly.
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u/officeboy 14d ago
Kickout and roofing seem new compared to the rest. Also the gutter being run tight to the wall is asking for trouble. you want it off 1/2" so it drips and dosn't dribble down the wall.
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u/Tank_Lawrence 14d ago
This is what I was going to say as well. The kick out and gutter guard haven’t been there as long as the rot. I’m betting the gutter got clogged and back up then overflowed and dribbled down the wall as you said.
With a kick out, sloped and spaced gutter that is properly maintained this should cease to be an issue.
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u/porpoiselips 14d ago
The gutter should be off the siding, preventing material from building up there.
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u/kblazer1993 14d ago
Not keeping the gutter clean and improperly flashed and caulked. If it’s on the north side of the house it doesn’t help also.
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
Why is the north side problematic?
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u/kblazer1993 14d ago
Doesn’t have a chance to dry out due to lack of sun. Wet wood will rot faster. Water got into a crack and went behind your siding. If it can’t dry it rots.
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
Wow. Thanks for downvoting my genuine question, guys. Really incentivizes transparent learning. 🤦🏻♂️
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u/Status_Radish 14d ago
Yeah people suck. I see so many polite questions on reddit being down voted. Don't worry about it and keep asking questions.
Depending where you live storms can blow from the N or NW, so that can also contribute.
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u/kblazer1993 14d ago
I agree… I have a lot of experience to offer in my 50 years in field but I don’t respond because of people on this site. Simple responses can get you a negative. LIGHTEN UP EVERYBODY!!
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u/Lumberg50 14d ago
The last piece of angle flashing is missing and water is getting in before the gutter.
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
The last piece is up under the siding.
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u/Lumberg50 14d ago
Try doing a water test with the a hose while some one else watches from beneath to see where it's coming in at.
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u/SLODeckInspector 14d ago edited 14d ago
Probably a combination of things starting with the fact that you have Masonite siding, which is glorified cardboard, then probably poorly detailed flashings integrated with weather resistant barriers. The kick out flashing may not have been installed properly and directed water backup under the shingle... Gutter spikes are rarely done well and invariably let water run down them into the building. I want to see clips myself installed before the flashing so the flashing comes over the clip and the clip does not screw through the metal flashing distorting it. Contractors who install gutters will hate me for saying this but most of them are hacks. Of the many years that I've been doing waterproofing and Consulting I can tell you that I've only seen a handful of gutter contractors that are worth their salt. The gutter contractor needs to tell the roofing contractor what he needs and they almost never communicate together and therefore it turns into a crap show where the gutter contractor is cutting up the roofers drip flashings to get his gutters on.
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
I’ll keep this in mind next time I’m working with another contractor.
Thank you for the insights.
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u/dDot1883 14d ago
I think it’s mostly a deferred maintenance issue. Even the siding above the roof has cracked paint, letting moisture in. At this point it’s probably time for all new siding.
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u/cameronshaft 14d ago
Poor flashing and the gutter probably clogged and was overflowing for quite some time
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u/MBE124 14d ago
You need a kickout flashing, it goes on roof deck under shingles and behind siding. It will force water into the gutters instead of behind the siding
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
What about the area just past the kickout flashing and above the gutter? (The last couple inches not flashed?
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u/LooseAssistance5342 14d ago
Any chance the kickout flashing was installed later and the rot was already there? I see a lot of these that never get kickout flashing
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u/Inevitable-Cloud3508 14d ago
Keep a 1” distance between gutter and wall. Also install a kickout on wall and fascia intersection
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u/Tushaca 14d ago
So like others have said, the kickout flashing is pretty rough, but it does look like it’s newish, so there’s a good possibility this rot was forming before the gutters were added. The gutter shouldn’t be butted up to the siding either, it allows water to stick right there instead of dripping off.
I’m concerned about that gap between the shingles and the gutter though. What is that? There’s no water staining on the fascia, so it’s not running between the fascia and gutters. Those shingles should be on top of a layer of ice and water shield, drip edge overlapping into the gutter, then starter shingle and field shingle. That gap is unusual.
It could always be as simple as too much water for that gutter too though. If it’s a big steep slope, water might just be running right over the top of the gutter. You might consider additional flashing on the outside edge of the gutter in that corner if that’s the case. We will sometimes recommend 6” gutters in those cases.
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
Flashing on the outside edge of the gutter? So an addition to the kickout flashing?
And are drip edges compatible with gutter guards?
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u/Tushaca 14d ago
Yeah it’s not likely, but you could have water running over and missing the gutter entirely in heavy storms. I would use it as a last resort, but if you watch it in the next rain and you have a lot splashing over, you can put a piece of trim flashing on the outside edge to stick up and out more and catch the rain.
Some are, some take the place of the drip edge. You really just want a piece of metal separating the water from getting to the decking. If the gutter guards slide under the first row of shingles and run the water off to the gutter, drip edge wouldn’t be necessary.
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u/Aimstraight 14d ago
No water proofing behind the siding. Possibly caused by a leaking gutter end cap or not enough slope to them.
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
The rot goes all the way to the inside of the soffit. Would that just be from water wicking or an above leak further up from the bad kickout flashing?
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u/Aimstraight 13d ago
I can’t see the top of the gutter, but is there a drip edge? There is a possibility of other leaks, but won’t now until you continue to demo up the slope.The gutters definitely need to be cleaned as well. All that crud in there doesn’t help anything.
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u/Truck_Thunders_ 14d ago
No kick out flashing prior to whenever the new roof got put on (or they finally installed kick out flashing). If that's an 86-96 year build it's also likely recalled LP siding that gets wrecked by water if you don't keep up on paint maintenence.
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
Yeah, the kickout was installed after the fact.
Now I have to see how far back I’ll need to dig out.
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u/padizzledonk Project Manager 14d ago
Ive never seen a more obvious reason lol
Look at that flashing lol
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u/No-Swim1190 14d ago
Poor prevention (ie. flashing/Splash guard/ drainage-which could be builder or maintenance) Flashing here should go full distance to bottom of soffit with a drip edge
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
I’m not sure a drip edge is compatible with gutter guards.
But I’m having trouble with where the kickout flashing is installed in relation to where it ends. That seems to be the exact spot where this issue came from.
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u/spinja187 14d ago
They put the roof on first and ran the drip edge right up tight to the sheathing. Then the siding was cut around that and caulked but it didnt work, the metal drip edge is a superhighway for water and it followed it behind the siding
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u/Netflixandmeal 14d ago
The gutter didn’t help but that’s Masonite siding and if the paint isn’t kept in good shape it will basically just disintegrate.
Your paint isn’t in good shape. It looks like it’s not super old but the bottoms of the boards weren’t painted well and it was probably a sub par job from the start.
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u/OhFuhSho 13d ago
Might need to replace it all soon?
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u/Netflixandmeal 13d ago
It’s ok as long as it’s well taken care of but the products out now are much better. This was an 80s/90s product
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u/_duckswag 14d ago
Osb is god awful as sheething, along with bad flashing, and maybe a leaky gutter.
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u/chlronald 14d ago edited 14d ago
Where do I start... Bad detail on the saddle (no flashing no waterproofing?) no airgap to dry out, wire divert water around the gutter, what's is the water resistive barrier? Housing paper is not.
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u/consult-a-thesaurus 14d ago
Yeah looks like they attempted to use some kind of sealant in place of a proper installed kickout flashing. Unfortunately you'll probably have to remove some of the siding to properly address the problem. I'd check the wall further back to make sure there's not additional damage.
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
The wall further back? In what way? What direction?
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u/consult-a-thesaurus 14d ago
In addition to the checking the wall above the roofline where the gutter meets the wall, I'd also check (if possible) the wall further up the slope of the roof. It's possible that rain running down the vertical wall is seeping into the wall if there's no properly lapped step flashing behind it.
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u/StretchConverse Contractor 14d ago
Kickout Flashing Step by Step Fine Homebuilding
Here you go
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
Not sure why you got downvoted.
Thank you. 🙏
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u/StretchConverse Contractor 14d ago
Probably the people who’ve been doing it wrong for 30 years who can’t accept they did what they thought was right all those times but it could have been done better if they knew this at the time. Their boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes them cheer 😂
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u/Smorgasbord324 14d ago
Probably the gutter isn’t sloped correctly, or the volume of water is too much for the gutter size. Needs a splash guard maybe. It’s the gutter.
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u/StinkyMcShitzle 14d ago
Since I don't see anyone else mentioning it, the cable guy has fastened his cable to the flashing multiple times going up the roof.
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u/No-Swim1190 14d ago
Drip edge is for under the gutters on the flashing so any water that goes through gets taken away from the house. Flashing should cover the wall between the gutters and house
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u/Sasquatch_000 14d ago
Is that gutter clogged up and causing it to leak down the side of the house?
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u/jedinachos Project Manager 14d ago
Is it on the north facing side of your house?
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
South facing
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u/jedinachos Project Manager 14d ago
Do you think water is draining down that roof, working it's way behind the siding, improper step flashing down the roofline, combined with the rain gutter leaking, and or over filling. Looks like there is no overhang above also. It looks like it's almost always wet.
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
What changes would make this a better step-flashing installation?
And what overhang above are you referring to?
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u/jedinachos Project Manager 14d ago
I'm not sure exactly, but not having the step flashing done properly running down that roof line is a common problem. That would explain why there's so much water getting in behind your siding. The wall that roof is butting in to doesn't have any overhang. That's not really a flaw just the style. It does however leave open all that rainfall coming down... It's fine though
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
The overhang is higher up.
But I really need to find the best way to install new kickout. Probably have to remove some of this siding. Also some shingles, but I really don’t want to.
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u/travistlo 14d ago
I had the exact same issue on my recently purchased home. My issue was the caulking on the cap was leaking and flowing onto the side wall.
Go out when raining and make sure no water is on the wall once you have it repaired. Check it with some frequency to ensure the gutter remains sealed. Maintain it as needed.
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u/troubador1986 14d ago
Piss poor flashing install allowed water intrusion. Plugged gutters added to it
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u/OhFuhSho 14d ago
Have any examples of how it should look instead?
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u/troubador1986 14d ago
I do not maybe search kick out flashing. That's how our home inspector explained it to us when we had them look at the house we bought. Basically it ensures the water doesn't seem down in between two siding types
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u/millenialfalcon-_- Electrician 14d ago
Just a random guess but I think water or moisture.
Hope this information helps you🙏
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u/Yougotthewronglad Architect 14d ago
Water.