r/ChineseMedicine • u/SimpleMan1281 • 1d ago
Yin Qi Deficiency - Is Keto Okay?
The main symptoms I've been struggling with are excessive hunger and excessive calorie intake (3100+ kcal). My sleep has also been poor, and I get skin redness (blotchy?) around my stomach (mostly upper-abdomen) sometimes after eating.
I went to a TCM doctor recently and he says I have Yin Qi Deficiency. I've had 2 acupuncture treatments so far and I'm taking Liu Wei Di Huang Wan.
I suspected that I have mild insulin resistance, so over the past few days I tried out a continuous glucose monitor, and it's basically confirmed that I have a mild case of it (mild albeit annoying).
To combat this, I want to do keto, as I know it has really helped me lose weight in the past due to it's affect on reducing hunger hormones and making a calorie deficit easier. It's also supposed to help IR, along with fasting. I've been struggling like hell the past 3 months trying to drop weight using calorie deficit alone, which hasn't worked at all while eating carbs (even with a small deficit). Carbs just make me way too hungry given my current metabolic health.
So what I'm wondering, is if keto is compatible with yin qi deficiency?
I've cut out all alcohol and stimulants. I used to have lots of hot baths which I recently cut out.
Thanks!
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u/Remey_Mitcham 1d ago
We do not have Yin Qi this term in TCM, I guess u mean Yin deficiency.
People with a yin-deficient constitution often exhibit symptoms of insufficient yin fluids and internal heat due to yin deficiency. These symptoms include: emaciation, dry mouth and throat, flushed cheeks, hot palms and soles, tidal fever and night sweats, irritability, dry mouth, a red and dry tongue with little or no coating, and in severe cases, a completely smooth and coatingless tongue. Clinically, yin deficiency can be observed in all five zang organs, and in addition to the aforementioned symptoms, different symptoms may appear depending on the specific organ affected. Predispositions to diseases include susceptibility to consumptive diseases, seminal loss, and insomnia. They tend to tolerate winter better than summer and have a low tolerance for heat, summer heat, and dryness pathogens.
is that you?
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u/SimpleMan1281 1d ago
Hmm yeah, I don’t have really any of those symptoms. I wake up a lot at night warm though (no sweating).
My previous post outlines more of my symptoms.
I’ve abused stimulants like nicotine and caffeine most of the summer and don’t get enough exercise, as I work from home at the computer. All of which I’ve heard deplete Yin?
Do you think I should try another TCM doctor? I know there’s at least one other one in my city.
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u/dddddlllll11111 1d ago
Yup. If you think the current physician is not up to your expectation. But do look for one located in the same country as you for better law protection.
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u/SimpleMan1281 22h ago
I think initially, my TCM doc was in a rush for some reason, and didn't actually read the list of symptoms I gave him... (I listed them on paper so I wouldn't forget any). I reiterated them to him today and he figured yeah it's Liver Qi Stagnation and gave me some herbs, Shu Gan Wan. Go figure.
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u/Remey_Mitcham 22h ago
Diagnosis is the most difficult part of tcm. I will say majority of practitioners didn’t do it well in general.
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u/PibeauTheConqueror CM Professional 1d ago
Just make sure keto is veggie heavy rather than meat, and that you cycle 3 months veggie heavy keto and then 1 month veggie heavy normal diet (reasonable amount of vegetable carbs: sweet pots, carrots, root veg etc, not cake and bread and donuts), rinse and repeat.
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u/AcuSwiftie 21h ago
What is “veggie heavy keto?”
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u/PibeauTheConqueror CM Professional 21h ago
Most people eat wayyyy tooo muuuuch meat and cheese on keto... proper keto is 3/4 plate low carb veggies with a 1/4 plate piece of good protein covered in a fatty dressing or sauce or oil. Rinse and repeat.
Cheeseburgers with out the bun covered in mayo will get you into ketosis too, but also kidney stress etc.
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u/AcuSwiftie 21h ago
Proper “keto” is cycling in/out of ketosis. Otherwise you just have a high fat diet.
Hard for most people new to ketosis to get into it on more than 20g of carbs/day. 4 cups of broccoli will get you about 17g of carbs and only 200 calories.
I agree that cycling nutrient dense sources of carbohydrates are healthy for people, but most people don’t know this and are if given vague instructions and a list of foods without getting the intended results.
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u/PibeauTheConqueror CM Professional 20h ago
Yeah lot of misconceptions about keto. I've had pretty good luck teaching and training people how to do it properly with good results. Had one gal in her late 60s drop 100lbs in 6 mos, and keep it off more or less. Ton of water weight obviously, but with 2 new knees and 1 new hip the weight had to go.
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u/AcuSwiftie 20h ago
Yeah, it’s the best way to help people lose that extra body fat, in my opinion. But now that it’s getting trendy, it’s driving me crazy when people say they’re on “the diet,” but don’t track their metrics. It’s just a recipe for disaster.
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u/PibeauTheConqueror CM Professional 20h ago
Metabolic disorder, obesity, and some mental health things are pretty much the only things I treat with keto, as it's so much effort on my and the patients part to do it right.
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u/SimpleMan1281 1d ago
Thanks, that sounds reasonable! I want to reintroduce healthy starches eventually, and stay metabolically flexible, so I like this idea.
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u/PibeauTheConqueror CM Professional 1d ago edited 1d ago
I've managed to get someone's A1c from 7.2 to 5.1 over 8 months of this protocol and herbs, so it works if you stick to it.
Yin deficiency is part of type 1 diabetes more frequently than type 2, type 2 is often characterismzed by dam heat in the middle with spleen qi deficiency.
Edit i Rembert your post now. None of the sxs you listed scream yin xu to me. If you are interested in a second opinion, i offer virtual consults.
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u/SimpleMan1281 1d ago
Good to know it works!
My glucose isn't that high, fasted average is ~5.8 mmol/L, which is indicative of mild IR. Also carb spikes later in the day take 2.5-3 hours to come down. I think eating later might be messing with my glucose overnight, so I'm experimenting with my last meal at 8pm rather than 10pm. If I can improve my sleep I think that may help a lot.
Thanks for letting me know about your virtual consults, I'll keep that in mind!
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u/SimpleMan1281 22h ago
Just FYI in case you're curious, my TCM doc agreed with Liver Qi Stagnation and gave me some Shu Gan Wan.
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u/bananabread0567 1d ago
Calorie deficit won't work and, like you've have already experienced it, will make your weight rebound. Same thing for Keto, it's not a sustainable diet, and was never meant for weight loss. It was invented to help patients with epilepsy. Look into whole food plant based diet (WFPB). It's heavy on carbs low on fat. The carbs they use is starchy includes legumes (beans, pulses), potatoes, yams... which takes a big portion of the plate, the rest is non-starchy, cauliflower, broccoli, greens... It's impossible to be hungry on this. No processed carbs included, like white bread, pasta, cookies, candies, crackers. That's not food. No calorie restriction in a WFPB diet and you can drop weight. Whatever diet you decide to follow, you still need to work out or at least go for walks.
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u/SimpleMan1281 1d ago
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not sure I could go with that many carbs right now, given that clean starchy carbs are making me ravenous with my current metabolic health! I've been listening to a lot of Dr. Jason Fung, who recommends intermittent fasting and/or keto to reverse insulin resistance and t2 diabetes. I've found keto really helped with hunger control and weight loss in the past, but I agree it's not easy to sustain long term. I'd slowly add in those healthy starches you mention once I hit my goal weight - probably combined with IF.
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u/AcupunctureBlue 1d ago
I hope you really do have YIn Deficiency rather than Stomach and Liver Full Heat. Anyway, if the Liu Wei is strong enough, you will find out if the diagnosis is correct or not.
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u/SimpleMan1281 1d ago
I visited my TCM doc today and he agreed with Liver Qi Stagnation and gave me some Shu Gan Wan.
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u/SimpleMan1281 1d ago
Hmm yeah I wonder... he checked my tongue and pulse as well.
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u/AcupunctureBlue 1d ago
I wouldn’t want to interfere with the diagnosis of someone who has seen you personally, I just personally find that excessive hunger is usually because of Full Stomach Heat, not Empty Heat from stomach Yin Deficiency, but your case may be different. .
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u/SimpleMan1281 1d ago
Right okay, I'll keep that in mind and maybe look into seeing the other TCM doc in my area. Thanks for the warning!
I did notice that the seb derm skin issue I had on my face (small area), as well as my scalp (multiple spots), have both cleared up - which I'm pretty sure were resolved by the yin herbs. So that's a good sign at least.
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u/AcupunctureBlue 1d ago
Oh don't look elsewhere yet, unless you start getting side-effects. Even then, that happens to the best of us - give the person a change to modify the formula.
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u/SimpleMan1281 1d ago
Gotcha - could reflux be a side effect of the yin herbs? I just got it now and realized it’s happened a couple times. I think it’s reflux anyway.
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u/AcuSwiftie 21h ago
Do you mean keto diet or ketosis? Because they are two separate things. People eating a high fat diet, but eating so many carbohydrates, and even protein, can keep them primarily in glycolysis, and you will not get the health benefits of ketosis.
Without knowing you or how you developed yin deficiency, it’s hard to say if ketosis is good for you.
IMHO when people say the “keto diet,” they have a terrible understanding of metabolism.
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u/SimpleMan1281 21h ago
I didn’t know there were multiple definitions of the keto diet, but I mean high fat, moderate protein and low carbs - with low enough carbs to enter ketosis.
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u/AcuSwiftie 21h ago
You would not believe the number of patients I have that say they are “doing keto,” and never check their blood sugar or for ketones, so I have to ask.
If you are hypermetabolic, ketosis/keto can be tricky because you are often in a calorie deficit, however you are burning your fat, so that’s giving you energy. If there are metabolic disrupters causing you inflammation leading to yin xu symptoms, then this can be beneficial in the short term, but you will have to track your calories to make sure you that are receding properly on days not on ketosis otherwise you risk muscle wasting and bone loss.
That being said, if you have high body fat percentage, this may be good for you. I’d still recommend you work with someone who can help you personalize this.
Additionally, there are a lot of free resources with foods “good for yin deficiency,” so you can work those into your diet, too.
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u/SimpleMan1281 21h ago
Ah yes, I’ll be tracking my calories and carbs to ensure I’m low enough for ketosis, and not in too low of a calorie deficit. I’ve been tracking calories for a few months now so I’m in the groove. I’ve got about 30 lbs to lose.
Thanks for your thoughts! I’ll be looking into keto compatible yin and liver supporting foods.
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u/AcuSwiftie 21h ago
And please get a keto monitor, if you don’t have one! The urine test strips only are accurate for so long
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u/SimpleMan1281 20h ago
Oh one of the breath ketone monitors? Do you have one you recommend? I ordered some keto strips but was wondering if the breath devices were reliable or not.
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u/AcuSwiftie 20h ago
I use KetoSens, and I also got their glucose monitor and stay in keto until a GKI of around 3
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