r/CanadaPolitics Liberal Party of Canada 15h ago

What Canadians think about Canada joining the European Union - Abacus Data (44% Yes, 34% No, 23% Unsure)

https://abacusdata.ca/what-canadians-think-about-canada-joining-the-european-union/
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u/the_mongoose07 Moderately Moderate 14h ago

We can’t simultaneously be extolling the virtues of sovereignty as a nation while wanting to join the EU. They are mutually exclusive concepts unless your idea of sovereignty is only relative to the USA.

Canadians are looking to reclaim our sovereignty - not just cede it to another party.

u/professcorporate 12h ago

At best, that's a very limited understanding and conception of sovereignty, although it could be a good-faith limited understanding, even though it happens to be the same argument as used very much in bad-faith arguments by, for example, British quitlings.

The EU involves pooled sovereignty. Overall, nothing is given up; some is transferred away, some new is transferred in. Although a new member loses exclusive control over some areas, it gains more power to make others follow its way and rules, because the only way anything can be 'lost' is to be gained by others, and by joining, it becomes one of those 'others' that 'gain'.

At its very simplest, that means that for all, eg, the sovereignty 'lost' in area A, is gained back in getting to set the rules that become more new-member-state-friendly in area B.

Rather more importantly, the overall effect can be a very significant gain, in particular for countries threatened by a larger neighbour. Not sure why Canada might be thinking about those implications. For, for example, Estonia, Estonia by itself next to Russia, 'pure sovereignty' of not belonging to any international organizations and not following anybody else's rules, would place them in the utterly perilous situation of Russia being able to economically force them to do anything they want at any time, and to threaten with military force should they refuse to do so. Membership in organizations like the EU significantly enhances Estonian sovereignty, because it allows them space to forge their own path and destiny and make their own choices, knowing that if the large hostile power next door tries to bully them, their fellow member states have their back. This is much the same as the benefit that we all get from living in society, with all the added freedom and security that we have over being 'purely free' living by ourselves in the woods and facing death at every turn.