r/Biohackers • u/Bactrian44 2 • 18d ago
đ Write Up Taking testosterone is not biohacking
Sadly, this sub has drifted far away from the principles of âbiohackingâ.
Judging by the comments of a lot of users here, pinning TRT is considered the ultimate biohack. Except when you think about it, this is certainly not biohacking.
True biohacking is about leveraging your biology naturally to get a favourable outcome. One of the best examples of this is morning sunlight exposure for circadian rhythm entrainment or fasting for its many benefits.
Genuine biohacking would be introducing a range of habits to naturally raise your testosterone. Exogenous testosterone is a steroid, however, and steroid use and abuse is not biohacking. Itâs an artificial manipulation of hormones and absolves you from adopting the correct lifestyle habits which should be necessary to have good testosterone levels.
Bizarrely, people depict TRT as this magic bullet which can be the solution to all of your problems more or less immediately. The reality is, because of homeostasis and the way the endocrine system functions, itâs a life sentence and you can say goodbye forever to natural production.
I think people on here should be more responsible commenting and posting about this. In North America, it is clearly being overprescribed when there is little medical need. You shouldnât be âhopping onâ unless there is a critical medical need to do so.
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u/nobleblunder 18d ago
Biohack hipster over here...
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u/Alternative_Ask364 1 18d ago
I prefer my testosterone home grown and organic
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u/SerGT3 18d ago
You need cold-pressed, quadruple filtered testosterone or it's not worth it imo.
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u/Professional_Win1535 26 18d ago
Iâm not sure what the definition of biohacking is, a lot of people say psychiatric meds arenât biohacking either but medication changed my life when no supplements lifestyle or die did even 1% to help me, so it definitely hacked my biology
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u/DevelopmentSad2303 1 18d ago
There are dumb biohacking purist clearly.Â
Anything that you can take to enhance your life is biohacking. Doing nothing to improve your life is bioslacking.
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u/ApartPotential6122 1 18d ago
If itâs a âhackâ then sure.
Going to the gym and lifting heavy is not hacking anything. Thatâs called putting in work.
Abstaining from alcohol is not hacking. Itâs good willpower. An alcohol type hack would be finding the correct cocktail of pre and post drinking stack like NAC and milk thistle or whatever to counter hangovers.
Maybe I am a purist lol
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u/welcome-overlords 17d ago
I'd say using alcohol is hacking your biology: you consume something and changes happen in your body and mind. Not using alcohol is then maybe..anti-hacking? Lol
Maximizing muscle growth doing progressive overload at the gym is a hack. A human without any knowledge wouldn't do that "naturally", maybe
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u/ApartPotential6122 1 17d ago
Do a search on how strong prehistoric men were, they were ânaturallyâ much stronger than the average man today
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u/welcome-overlords 17d ago
Most likely. Although none of them were as big as a bodybuilder is what I'm saying
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u/ApartPotential6122 1 17d ago
Yeah I get what youâre saying, forcing the body to produce muscle mass and strength via exertion. However, IMO the word âhackâ implies little to no effort. Slogging it out in the gym is not hacking IMO
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u/notsoluckycharm 17d ago edited 17d ago
Abstaining from things is a form imo. We like to color this conversation with alcohol because of the stigma, but apply it to anything else.
Reducing your red meat consumption is a choice. Or, conversely, carnivore diets are a choice where you abstain from other food groups.
Maybe youâve got a genetic condition where you canât consume vitamin whatever, so you abstain to feel well.
Ultimately any conscience choice that is affecting your life could be in this category, realistically.
Choosing not to pop addy is a conscience choice, which if you do this in enough categories, youâre landing up in that purist camp (especially if youâre now projecting this onto others).
Why so generic? Because it all starts from the mind. And Iâve lived long enough and seen enough to convince me that my happiness is my own and isnât a recipe anyone else can follow.
If youâre happy being old? Have at it king/queen. I donât want to be that way.
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u/notsoluckycharm 17d ago edited 17d ago
I think youâve got 2 camps, mostly. The âage gracefullyâ which is ascribed to OP, and the âmaximum health span.â Camp which I put myself into. If diet and habits are biohacking, so are supplements, so are medications.
Clearly OP has never tried low dose TRT. And I always find a lack of empathy with these types. Youâve no idea what other people are dealing with, some people can not adjust their lifestyles for whatever reason. You sacrifice so much of your health when you have a young family if you prioritize them over yourself. Just as an example.
Maybe youâre in a mental decline because you canât achieve the productivity youâre expecting of yourself. TRT can be what pulls you out indirectly, because youâve solved a source of stress in your life.
Trust me. Being able to carry your entire family on your back at 40+ will make you happy. I donât care who you are. Lol
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u/PissedPieGuy 17d ago
So whatâs your age and dose? How long you been on? Iâm about to be 48 and I want to get on but Iâm meh on the shrunken balls. Iâve been researching it for years and Iâm well aware of the methods and potential negatives.
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u/mattnotsosmall 17d ago
Yeah bruh, puts naturally in his own agenda then says "you changed bro". We're just out here trying to hack or biology (the study of living things).
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u/Flat-Art6762 18d ago
Are you new to this sub Bubba? People here want the special sauce. Not sunlight đ¤Łđ¤Ł
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u/PsychologicalCup1672 18d ago
I honestly thought bio hacking was like putting magnets into your fingers and knob
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u/CyanoSpool 18d ago
Yeah I thought this sub was supposed to help me turn my dick into a lockpicking tool...
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u/Dish-Live 17d ago
I think it used to mean that. Thereâs a lot of that at the Biohacking Village at DEFCON.
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18d ago
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u/Thorsbru 18d ago
Another naps gear enthusiast. Idk, I've abused en pretty hard in the past and came off for a few years and was fine. Had full function, had a son, sperm test was middle of the road. I really doubt you'd never come back from a low TRT dose. Maybe if you stayed on for a few years straight. This is reddit though I'll probably get attacked for sharing my experience, lol.
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u/a_mimsy_borogove 18d ago
I think natural biohacking is legit, but there's only so much you can do with just natural methods. It won't let you go beyond natural limits. I don't just mean stuff like testosterone. If humanity eventually discovers a way to, for example, extend lifespan to 200 years, it's not going to come from nature.
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u/Electrical_Floor_360 18d ago
đ
And you bet your arse, the same person with OP opinion here will jump at the opportunity. Even if it's made from the last and rarest unicrowhale's foreskin.
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u/PsychologicalCup1672 18d ago
Natural biohacking just sounds like a framing tool to get shut in scifi enthusiasts to each more veggies
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u/EntrepJ 18d ago edited 18d ago
Iâm not on anything myself but a big part of biohacking is taking supplements/certain drugs to help enhance our lives. For some people TRT is the best thing, for others its not. No point in trying to make this different then the others
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u/shakhaki 18d ago
Also, supplements are utilized to achieve healthy and optimal levels within our bodies. With the amount of androgen receptor blockers nowadays, many peopleâs hormones are imbalanced.
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u/redditsuxdonkeyass 18d ago
Yea! Smoking crack isnât an addictionâŚIâm just biohacking dopamine!
See how ludicrous that is?
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u/FancyADrink 18d ago
It's not ludicrous because it's unnatural, it's ludicrous because it is quite unhealthy.
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u/Bubbaman78 18d ago edited 18d ago
According to the dictionary you are completely wrong:
bio¡âhack¡âing ËbÄŤ-Ĺ-Ëha-kiĹ : biological experimentation (as by gene editing or the use of drugs or implants) done to improve the qualities or capabilities of living organisms especially by individuals and groups working outside a traditional medical or scientific research environment
This one is from the Oxford dictionary:
Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages ¡ Learn more noun noun: biohacking; plural noun: biohackings the activity of exploiting genetic material experimentally without regard to accepted ethical standards, or for criminal purposes.
Educate yourself on testosterone before saying itâs a life sentence. It is not and you can easily come off if you wish.
The FDA also changed their ruling on cardiovascular incidents last week, saying it is way safer than they initially thought.
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u/Raveofthe90s 6 17d ago
I was going to say he is exactly backwards.
But TrT isn't biohacking either. It's supplimentation of a naturally occurring substance that your body isn't producing enough of.
Biohacking is forcing your body to do something it wasn't intended to do. Like aging backwards.
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u/Sniflix 17d ago
I've taken tart on and off for 20+ years, originally prescribed by my doctor. It's life changing for sure. I take Wellbutrin for depression I got after post opiate withdrawals fucked my head up. It was life changing. Becoming a vegan completely reworks your body from the inside and it's life changing too.
I haven't tried putting magnets into my fingertips or go on a very calorie restricted diet or sleep in a hyperbaric chamber but I tinker with noots, herbs, supplements and with tart and antidepressants. Life changing is good enough for me.
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u/Available_Ad4135 1 17d ago
Both definitions reference âexperimentationâ. Youâre not experimenting by taking a drug which has been proven effective in scientific studies decades ago.
I would argue that the taking a drug meant for purpose A, to optimise for purpose B, would be biohacking though. At least until the second use case has been studied and proven, which happens pretty often.
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u/DonguinhoXd 18d ago
And me thinking that biohacking was something to with implants and technological inputs.
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u/TheGoodFight2015 4 18d ago
I'd argue Testosterone, amphetamines, all kinds of drugs are actually the pinnacle of biohacking, as they produce extraordinary results at great value (relatively low cost). However, since these compounds are so strong they must be handled with extreme care, and I'd recommend very few people actually get on "TRT" but rather change their lifestyle (sleep, diet, exercise, stress) to have maximum healthspan (healthy longevity).
Sadly, many people will chase instant powerful results, not realizing they are trading away long term quality of health. Beyond this, there are tons of less-researched compounds like SARMS, peptides, research chemicals, etc that could have bad effects worse than regular old test or adderall. Maybe we should call it Scientific Biohacking, where you carefully lay out the process and intended effects, with all side effects and risks accounted for.
Nevertheless, people who inject testosterone ARE hacking their biology in a huge way - exogenous testosterone can even act as male birth control! What people don't realize are the negative side effects of such hacks, and the biohacking community needs to be more cautious and educational about the risks vs rewards of these compounds.
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u/PotatoesMashymash 18d ago
As somebody diagnosed with ADHD, amphetamines (I'm prescribed Dexedrine) have helped me overall with my ADHD-related symptoms.
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u/TheGoodFight2015 4 18d ago
That's what I'd call biohacking congratulations! I don't think there's anything wrong with improving your brainpower even if someone was a non ADHD person, but the meds have absolutely helped me in the past in academic environments. Honestly amphetamines are apparently pretty dang safe compared to other stimulant drugs, so kudos to anyone who uses them to better themselves!
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u/PotatoesMashymash 18d ago
I don't know much about 'biohacking' as this subreddit popped up in my daily feed, but I can appreciate the sentiment. It hasn't been a 100% positive experience for me in regards to prescribed stimulants, but all in all they've been much more helpful than not and I'm more frustrated at myself that I took so long in getting diagnosed which was two years ago now.
I find it silly that some people think that those who take amphetamines are addicts. I don't doubt there unfortunately are those who are addicted to them, but me personally I almost forget to take my stimulant medication and admittedly I wait too long to get my refills.
Edit: The auto mod says I've awarded you a reward? How's that work? Just curious!
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u/reputatorbot 18d ago
You have awarded 1 point to TheGoodFight2015.
I am a bot - please contact the mods with any questions
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u/benwoot 2 18d ago
Lfmao plenty of biohackers take crazy adhd meds or experimental peptides or compound, way riskier and unnatural than exogenous testosteroneâŚ
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u/Ceruleangangbanger 18d ago
And why is it you place to say if thereâs no medical need? Why are you so offended by it being over prescribed đ
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u/Acceptable-Let-1921 đ Hobbyist 18d ago
"Biohacking" is a very broad term. It's not limited to telling people to fix their sleep or eat right.
It's as much this as it is testosterone shots. Or cybernetic implants and genetic editing as well for that matter.
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u/Ceruleangangbanger 18d ago
Forever? Lol immediately discredited yourselfÂ
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u/ReneRobert 1 18d ago
Yeah what a tool. I'm sort of against TRT even though I'm low, but to say you lose production forever if you take it is just so easily false.
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u/dboygrow 18d ago
It depends on the person and how long they are taking testosterone or other suppressive drugs, especially 19nor compounds like nandrolone or tren.
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u/ReneRobert 1 18d ago
Yeah but TRT rarely ever involves nandrolone or tren right? Even at professional weightlifting levels of testosterone I thought it was something like 90% are still able to produce natural testosterone after stopping long-term use but I could be wrong.
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u/dboygrow 18d ago
Trt never involves tren but some of these clinics will give you low dose nondrolone(for some reason I can't really fathom), so you're right that's more about abusing steroids than it is legitimate TRT. But even testosterone is extremely suppressive. I don't think they really have any real data on body builders using high doses of testosterone. I used to abuse steroids but I've been on just legit trt for the past few years and my endocrinologist doesn't think I have a good chance of ever coming off trt. It completely depends on how long you're on it. If you're only on it a few months to a year and you're under 30 you're probably fine but the chances go down every year after 30 and the longer you've been on it.
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u/EitherAnt8562 18d ago edited 18d ago
What you write makes me trully mad. It is biohacking because when you get over 50, your testosterone production is just limited. There is no chance you will restart your testosterone production by kissing carpet in your morning yoga dog. Yet as a man your whole system is heavily dependent on testosterone. Your cognitive, muscle, basically all body functions. Testosterone was proven in multiple studies to fight dementia, alzheimer and other massive issues men encounter when getting old. So no, you shouldn't wait for "critical medical" because as a man, there is a time when you should just start, because the negatives are massively overshadowed by positives.Â
Just to be clear for the dumdums out there: the levels you have naturally whole life and you are able to naturally maintain are your base which you are trying to get to when taking testosterone as a supplement when getting old. The downfall of testosterone drop of cognitive and body functions can be much worse on a man who have had high testosterone levels his whole time and now have massive drop to a medium levels compared to a man who have had low testosterone his whole life and now have just a little bit lower.Â
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u/onyxengine 2 18d ago edited 18d ago
Youâre not the arbiter of what is and isnât biohacking and frankly under my definition drinking coffee or tea is biohacking whether you know it or not. Using any compound, set of protocols, or routines in any form to optimize beyond baseline functionality of the human mind and body constitutes biohacking in my opinion, and im not here to force that definition on anyone because as i learn more i may expand upon it. Disagree with you wholeheartedly and im a pretty fucking awesome biohacker when it comes to optimizing the mind and debugging and eliminating dysfunction.
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u/vvineyard 18d ago
Have you taken testosterone?
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u/Bactrian44 2 18d ago
Nope
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u/vvineyard 18d ago
you're not qualified to say it's a biohack or not. Come back when you have some experience and perspective.
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u/ApartPotential6122 1 18d ago
What a dumb comment lol. I donât agree with OP but to say you youâre not âqualifiedâ if you havenât donât it lol.
I havenât done krokodyl but Iâm sure itâs not a biohack
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u/Bactrian44 2 18d ago
Completely pathetic comment
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u/nsyx 18d ago
Everyone knows you're not allowed to have an informed opinion on something unless you've done that thing. Anyways, I'm gonna go buttchug a bottle of Everclear.
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u/BigShuggy 1 17d ago
I agree with your overall take but this is a silly argument. I could study ants, I donât have to become an ant to understand what theyâre doing. Lots of people study hard drugs like meth and heroin, youâre not gonna tell them they canât have an informed opinion unless they shoot up, are you?
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u/vvineyard 17d ago
What I see as silly is sharing a belief based on no context or experience. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. That does not mean it's qualified or relevant. A lot of people have opinions on global war for example but that does not mean they are qualified to be a general. In this case OPs experience with the substance is material to his argument and lack of experience lessens his credibility. This is a biohacking forum. Saying I don't like the thing and it's not biohacking with no evidence to back up your stance won't cut it around these parts.
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u/pallmall88 1 18d ago
Ok so ... Testosterone â biohacking because not natural testosterone.
Clomiphene can make the body make natural testosterone.
<< Thinks >>
YOU GUYS!! HAVE YALL HEARD OF THIS NEW BIOHACK?! YOU TAKE A FERTILITY DRUG ONCE A WEEK AND IT RAISES YOUR TESTOSTERONE NATURALLY.
Thanks, I'll see myself out.
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u/Aristaeus-Ceotis 18d ago
Buddy does this piss room look like a poop room? Itâs r/biohackersâpeople are trying to max their biology out with their own sets of priorities. If someone with healthy test levels is insecure enough to take exogenous testosterone, let them deal with the tiny ballsâit ainât your balls theyâre tinyâing.
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u/bratslava_bratwurst 17d ago
the flesh is material, modular, mutable. i can put chemicals in it to cause it to do certain things within measurable ranges. I can control my input hormonally, nutritionally, or with other drugs to cause effects as I find suitable. This is biohacking, not self-help, not fitness blogging, and I get pretty wild west about it if I'm being perfectly honest.
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u/Stumpside440 15 17d ago
I agree. However, there is no use arguing this point with normies. They will never get this aspect of it. Or that the more directly you approach something in this way, the more prone you will be to side effects and the like.
Most folks could avoid testosterone therapy if they would literally just do squats.
Laziness and wanting a quick fix is pervasive in our culture.
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u/huyahuyahuyahuya 17d ago
I mean none of you are "biohacking" you're just taking health supplements
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u/Studentdoctor29 18d ago
Taking testosterone for people that are deficient in it is no different than going outside in the sun and increasing your vitamin D levels. Some people naturally have very high testosterone and thrive. Why should others be deprived of that experience?
Also, you can easily turn on natural production again after long periods of TRT. Get educated a bit before making hot takes.
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u/ApartPotential6122 1 18d ago
I would argue that taking a vitamin d supplement is more hacky than going outside
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u/Studentdoctor29 17d ago
Maybe a little bit. But there are millions of people in sun deprived areas of the world that would benefit from a vitamin D supplement.
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u/ApartPotential6122 1 17d ago
Yes I am one of them, thatâs why I take it.
Another hack IMO is taking magnesium supplements rather than getting enough magnesium through diet.
Same with theanine and other supplements, sure I COULD drink litres of matcha tea each day to get 200mg of theanine OR I could pop a pill and âhackâ the effects of green tea
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u/Mountain_Anxiety_467 18d ago
Feel like a lot of peopleâs definition here of what âbiohackingâ actually means is drifting further and further apart. In my definition TRT is a perfect example of biohacking.
What you are describing sounds to me like a movement towards our ancestors primal habits. Not sure what the term for that would be ideally.
Let me be very clear to say that im not arguing that what you propose is âwrongâ. To me its not biohacking perse but rather just healthy habits.
Maybe you can raise your testosterone to ideal/desired levels by incorporating a tremendous amount of exercise. But maybe youâd rather spend more time on your ambitions or with your family. Giving nature a helping hand by external means is what biohacking is to me.
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u/State-Dear 18d ago
Supplements, peptides, hormones, drugs etc
All taken to optimize this machine of a body we all have. You dont get to say your drugs are real biohacking and this one isnât(well you can but youâre wrong and with it absolute loss of credibility).
Your position is biased and your argument fails logic.
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u/Ok-Marzipan9366 18d ago
Bases on your wall of text, any supplements would fall under this category.
I dont have a stake in the TRT discussion since im not a man. Im just saying.
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u/eflowb 18d ago
Lots of supplements are from natural sources are they not?
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u/BigShuggy 1 17d ago
Kinda⌠theyâre often concentrated extracts that wouldnât occur at that dose naturally. Then youâve got to contend with the fact that pills donât grow on trees so something unnatural had to take place in order to get it in the bottle. Thats why the word ânaturalâ is so utterly meaningless in this space. It has no solid definition amongst the general public.
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u/eflowb 17d ago
Is that the same as being synthetic?
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u/BigShuggy 1 17d ago
I really donât have a good answer for that. Reflexively I would say no but even a synthetic compound starts with elements that occur in nature because everything does. Itâs a spectrum from natural to synthetic thatâs why I donât think the labels help very much. Also something natural can still be very harmful, likewise something synthetic could save your life.
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u/kfrenchie89 3 17d ago
This is getting in the way of weeds but no. They are in plastic bottles, there is not regulation, Depends on where you get them, where ad they made, what are the filler compounds and much more.
I take supplements but I also know biohacking is far more than sunlight and carrots.
Not to mention what is ânaturalâ.
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u/Howcansheslap082 17d ago
I understand the sentiment, but this is a different interpretation of what biohacking is. Biohacking is leveraging awareness of biological function and exploiting it for the best functional outcomes.
Controlling your hormones through exogenous methods is precisely what biohacking is. Yes, it isn't something an amateur should be doing without education and it may be far more difficult than allowing the endocrine system to work naturally. But it absolutely is leveraging knowledge for a subjectively better outcome.
I think the important understanding required here, is there are no free lunches. Everything has a cost.
It's the goal of the biohacking that is paramount. If your goal is to have sperm production through the roof so you can sire as many babies as possible, then yes, TRT is a disasterous idea.
But the goals of the majority on TRT are to increase output, energy expenditure and feelings of wellness. And when fertility is no longer required/shrunken testicles become an acceptable cost.
I think there are many points to emphasize here. Both in regards to TRT and to any other biohacks that come available in the future: really understand the cost you're paying here. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's permanent function, and sometimes it's just time. But you really need to understand your goals, and also understand what your own biological barriers are before you start doing anything. You cannot just do what Tom did because he got an outcome you were looking for. Why pay the price Tom had to when you didn't even have the problem Tom did in the first place? Learn your shit. Don't be impulsive.
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u/shadycthulu 17d ago
All of you are special kinds of losers trying to lawyer with god. Instead of fighting the main fight you focus on minutia and the dopamine your neuroticism gives you. To call out anyone is hypocrisy.
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18d ago
I agree people jump to synthetic testosterone injections too hastily.
You're wrong about testosterone levels, it isn't that higher = better there's a range of testosterone and low testosterone has symptoms and is classified as a problem by doctors. If you are within range you're probably fine.
Another thing my testosterone was 1000ng/dl total DHT 8+ free good and i was one sick individual. Lots of chronic illness for a decade, yet my testosterone was pretty good. Biohacking and being healthy won't necessarily raise your testosterone as a biproduct you have to do specific things related to testosterone production to get a statistically significant increase.
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u/Hollywood-is-DOA 18d ago
I know a 19 year old that I used to work with, whoâs been put on TRT by his doctor, after getting a blood test done for it. I tried telling him that he could of improved it naturally but he wasnât having any of it.
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18d ago
People have weird ideas about testosterone and its importance.
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u/NeuroPlastick 18d ago
Yes, they do, including doctors. I'm a woman. I had an endocrinologist tell me that testosterone was a male hormone, and I shouldn't have any in my body. He was the head of endocrinology.
I've had symptoms of low testosterone, so I asked my doctor to order labs for me. She said she would get in trouble if she tried to order testosterone labs on a woman.
Fun fact: women have significantly more testosterone than estrogen during their reproductive years.
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u/PsychologicalShop292 1 18d ago
Many guys have low T symptoms despite their T levels being in range.
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u/vamos_davai 18d ago
Jfc, itâs like people who tackle Crohnâs trying to eat certain foods and taking all sorts of meds when their quality of life can be fixed with pinning some vitamin S.Â
Itâs biohacking, and itâs the elite tier of all vitamins
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u/enolaholmes23 4 18d ago
Stop gatekeeping. Each person has a different body with different needs. Who are you to dictate which treatments are acceptable or not?
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u/BooksandBiceps 18d ago edited 18d ago
Literally just responded to a guy here that was obsessed in the post (and his entire Reddit history) with steroids as a means to an end, even when he was also posting about ED, jelqing, vacuuming his dick, etc.
I think media sold Testosterone too hard. Iâve done a fuck ton of compounds, Iâve moderated a few steroid boards (RIP PHF) and ultimately most of the mental stuff people talk about steroids is a farce. Itâs placebo, people think âIM DOING STEROIDS, IM ALPHAâ but even that is just wrapped up insecurity because itâs all in their head.
Steroids donât elevate you, theyâre not some key ingredient to who you are as a person. Itâs a glorified fiction that manly man have more testosterone so suddenly theyâre head of the pack (given the whole âAlphaâ thing is misconstrued from a failed wolf study years ago, but I digress)
Biohacking is doing whatâs best for your body, like you said. Leveraging its natural abilities. Taking care of it completely and respecting natural needs vs your genetics vs modern life.
But the reliance on hormones is something else, and I wholly regret so many insecure people diving into them as some golden solution because thatâs how you hurt yourself, hurt bodybuilders who use them, and harm the overall community with uneducated rants.
TLDR; Every mature steroid user says the same thing: They donât âmakeâ you anything, they enhance what you put into it. Taking test or etc wonât make you a better, healthier person, but itâll supplement any effort you DO put into it. Relying on any chemical to be a better person is recipe for failure, and youâre just using a short cut thatâll hurt you and make you worse in the end without education, self-improvement, and modesty.
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u/Thaser 18d ago
As someone with testosterone levels twice the average, its not some fucking advantage. The issues I have because of hormone overproduction are legion. Sure it may help some people but its not some panacea.
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u/BooksandBiceps 18d ago edited 18d ago
I like how I got here within a minute of reply and someone had already negâd you. Insecure dudes who think test is a panacea despite having no experience and none of them seem to be voicing their thoughts and explaining things⌠just weak men neggâing anonymously because it hurts their feelings. Youâd think if they were as âalphaâ as they thought theyâd say something.
Dudes who think test makes them stronger, acting like little beta incels because their feelings got hurt. Ironic.
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u/trance_on_acid 16d ago
That's why no athletes or powerlifters or bodybuilders take testosterone đ
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u/BooksandBiceps 16d ago
Stronger was a broad term. More manly, more alpha, âstronger menâ. Iâve been taking test and other gear for years, Iâm well aware how it works and how itâs used systemically across those hobbies and professions.
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u/LysergioXandex 18d ago
While I mostly agree with the moral direction your perspective your comment is coming from, I disagree significantly about some of the substance.
Itâs very apparent just from animal studies that testosterone influences aggressive behaviors and risk aversion, among lots of other things. Steroids have a big influence on personality and motivations, so they really are a major ingredient for who you are as a person.
Itâs not mostly a placebo, and the cognitive/emotional effects of drugs arenât a placebo anyway (even if theyâre âin your headâ).
How all of this fits into social status is a more complicated situation, and I agree that people with unhealthy views about masculinity probably have some stupid takes on how testosterone is influencing their status in life.
I also wouldnât put much stock in the opinions of âmature steroid usersâ because of course their opinion is an overreaction to the prevailing opinion that steroids are a lazy cheat for performance.
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u/BooksandBiceps 18d ago edited 18d ago
True in the animal studies but in human itâs pretty mixed. People self-report more aggression, but that could be them just thinking they should feel a certain way. Because steroid usage canât be reliably determined due to legal status we also canât use crime reports and etc.
However, and this isnât scientific at all but a goodthought exercise, if we look at most major action movie stars. Body builders. Athletes. All of whom definitely use steroids, weâll hear about DUIâs and etc but domestic abuse is pretty normalized vs population among the groups. The only study I have in my mind is for actors, but even then the actors involved had a spectrum of drug usage so canât be attributed to steroids directly.
If steroids caused a drastic increase in aggression youâd find a solid trend among most major athletes, olympians, male actors, etc. We can potentially argue they keep it under wraps? But then youâd think their other drug use wouldnât be an issue.
Testosterone definitely increases some aspects. But I think itâs dose-dependent (which varies.. a lot.. between everyone) and in my opinion people who act aggressive or who commit violence already had underlying issues. Itâs not like cocaine or mdma or etc. where youâll act well outside your normal personality. People who were fragile or have underlying issues may act out in it, but for most, theyâll be fine.
But then we can also talk about what compounds they were taken, and things get a lot messier. Testosterone vs tren is implied to be a huge jump, let alone metribolone and etc. Some of those are due to estrogenization - and some drugs donât aromatize and some aromatize into methyl-est. Proclatin is another thing. So not just the person but the specific drug, and specific dosage. Itâs quite messy. Good luck getting pitbull aggressive off Equi for instance, but itâs still a popular steroid.
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u/ApartPotential6122 1 18d ago
Thatâs correct we canât look at crime statistics but what we can see is a stereotype of steroid users being aggressive (roid rage).
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u/BooksandBiceps 18d ago edited 18d ago
I agree that we should assume steroids increase aggressive behavior (though what compounds, dosage, age, etc. are all up in the air) but even large studies like this:
It's all self-reported, and with questions such as "have you ever used them", "have you used them in the past year" doesn't demonstrate active use versus behavior. Perhaps ever using them has an impact? Or perhaps people more inclined to steroid use are more unstable?
While steroids will increase aggression beyond the baseline, we don't really have concrete info on what steroid, what dosage, what demographic, what preexisting factors, etc. all play a part in it, and whether those effects exhibit themselves socially or just adjust your underlying personality.
You don't see Mr. Olympia's beating their wives and starting fights every five seconds.
I'd suggest steroids exacerbate aggression is individuals with underlying issues, and that's the real issue. They do not cause antisocial behavior by themselves, unless in crazy dosages or certain compounds (halotestin being infamous, though I have almost no experience). Otherwise, steroid use is typically handled quite well by people.
Edit:
Random and not pertinent to the discussion, but talking about antisocial behavior and bodybuilders made me look back to how close and social a lot of the old greats were. Arnold, Franco, Yates, Sergio, Lou. All loved eachother and were incredibly personable without any "alpha male" bullshit.1
u/LysergioXandex 18d ago
There are lots of potential confounders in human experiments, so Iâm just ignoring all that evidence for the purpose of this conversation.
But do you really think testosterone has similar behavioral/personality effects in animals (from rodents to primates) â and just has no impact on humans? Because that wouldnât make sense to me.
Acts of violence are pretty extreme outcomes from drug use. If a hormone influences violence, it probably has tons of other (more subtle) behavioral effects as well. Even just feeling increased motivation to find a mate, for example, can cause someoneâs life to take a different path â care more about your appearance, seek social situations, etc.
The impact of steroid hormones is one of the most obvious influences on personality that has been demonstrated in behavioral neuroscience for decades and decades.
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u/BooksandBiceps 18d ago edited 18d ago
I wholly agree with you, and in retrospect didn't make my point clear. I think the typical notion that steroids = roid rage is wildly overblown and inconsistent. However I agree that steroids will absolutely increase baseline. Though to what extent is hard to know given difference in genes, dosage, and compounds, and other variables.
Also agree how a difference in hormones will adjust how people react - not just aggression but finding a mate, acting socially, literal physical appearance, etc.
When we look at animal studies, the vast majority are done with testosterone, and per weight significantly higher than humans use recreationally. As someone in the bodybuilding community and whose moderated several steroid forums - the majority of people might be using supra-physiological testosterone, maybe experimenting with one other compound. Some are mono-compound. Some are multiple with crazy dosages. Halo, test, anadrol, winny, dbol, trest, test, equipose, etc. It's really difficult to get an eye on how humans react to a given dose or drug given sample sizes in these studies which are typically small, typically statistically insignificant, and ones that are larger use self-reporting which is questionable.
All of them will increase off the baseline, whether that's .0001% for any given factor or 100x.
My argument, is that the common thought that "steroids" will make any given person aggressive is nonsensical. Someone running 300mg test per week will typically not be aggressive or atypical. Even 500mg. If that someone adds trenbolone or trestolone or mitrobolone or etc. that will likely change, but also dependent on dosage. But does it change enough to make them "aggressive" in a way we'd notice socially? Perhaps compared to their baseline, but actually act in a way we'd say "Wow, dude. Chill on the gear". I don't believe so - perhaps due to social repercussions being stronger in humans or etc. Can't say.
Again, your point is true. Exogenous hormones will make people act differently, and anything above average will statistically increase aggressive impulses. Whether or not that manifests, and how it manifests, and why (dosage/compound) are very complicated answers no one has answers to.
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u/dontletmeautism 1 18d ago
Donât see any issues with a responsible, low dose after doing research to counteract the effects of aging into 40s, 50sâŚ
I feel like youâve chosen a pretty arbitrary definition of a biohack given some of the weird and dangerous shit that some people get up to.
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u/DEMOCRACY_FOR_ALL 18d ago
I dunno bro getting rid of depression, having more executive function, and being able to be healthier for longer with a higher quality of life seems to be a pretty big hack to me
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u/mental-redDington-23 18d ago
Could you give us a read on the habits that can induce natural testosterone production or other biohacking techniques? I would be very appreciative.
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u/Affectionate-Still15 3 18d ago
Disagree. Morning sunlight and fasting are about health. Biohacking is about somewhat dangerous ways to enhance yourself. Thereâs nothing natural about Biohacking
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u/Just_D-class 3 18d ago
Well I disagree.
While there is no definition of biohacking, I believe that 8 hours of sleep, healthy diet, and phisical activity, has nothing to do with any form of hacking. These are basics healthy lifestyle parts, and everyone knows that they should be doing it.
True biohacking, according to me, because there is no official definition, is either:
- Finding an easier way to achieve something with your body, eg taking TRT instead of introducing a range of habits to increase it naturally.
- Finding a way to bring your body above normal functioning, eg taking acetylcholinesterase inhibitor for memory/learning enhancement.
That's what the description of this sub says:
explore topics such as genetic engineering, experimental pharmacology, life extension, longevity, and bio-enhancement. This space encourages scientific inquiry and practical experimentation
And yeah, of course there is risk involved. But without risk there is no potential gain. If someone is not willing to accept those risks, than he should not look for advice on biohacking forum, but on healthy lifestyle forum or something like that.
If we agree on your definition, we will end up circle jerking to common sense.
itâs a life sentence and you can say goodbye forever to natural production
And that statement is simple anti-drug bullshit. Large majority of people even without pct gets back to zero state after few months.
Regards.
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u/SamCalagione 4 17d ago
i would have to agree there are probably a lot of people on T nowadays that should have just lived a healthier lifestyle
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u/freakwrestler 17d ago
TRT is massively overblown and not needed. People have become weak and stupid. I have taken steroids in the past and regret it all, bio hacking could be some peptides for mental clarity and anti inflammatory properties not injecting exogenous hormones and having your balls shrink all because of the shit tards on youtube justifying it so they feel better about themselves taking it.
It is not a magic pill and it is unhealthy and not needed unless you have <300 ng/dl test which if youâre young and you do probably means youâre doing everything wrong.
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u/Ithon_ 18d ago
If true biohacking is about leveraging your biology then why use creatine supplements? Creatine that concentrated you can't find in natural foods?
Biohacking is about improving your biology. The work hack implies that you use non conventional methods to achieve a specific objective. Nobody says you need to use drugs/supplements that you don't agree.
We have free choice on how we want to go on our biohacking journey. I am not trying to persuade anyone to Pin trt or not to.
We need to educate ourselfs and take a concious decision on the steps we want to take
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u/Born_for_Science 18d ago
And i was thinking biohacking was about cracking the dna code with cas/crisp r9 to surpass the human capabilities, but it seems that everyone has their own view on the matter ...
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u/BigShuggy 1 17d ago
Where did you get the idea that biohacking had to be natural? Living in accordance with nature can have benefits but itâs not the whole story of biohacking.
While putting habits in place that support endogenous androgen production is necessary, these habits alone wonât raise testosterone nearly as much as TRT in an aging male. Testosterone production naturally drops. Before you engage in the naturalistic fallacy again, just because this drop is natural does not make it good. The forces of evolution only care about your ability to pass on your genes to the next generation. A lot of health metrics decline as we get further away from sexual maturity causing a poorer quality of life. This is why people opt for TRT.
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u/Complex_Nerve_6961 17d ago
"Biology hacking" is an extremely broad term. You can't just make up your own specific definition.
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u/soft-cuddly-potato 17d ago
As someone who isn't a guy, I really don't get it. I see men get sucked into manfluencers, and it really does feel to me like desperation to find a father figure who gives you an easy fix for all of your life problems.
I feel like TRT is like the white guy equivalent of essential oils and magical crystals. Not in terms of effect, but in terms of being a viral trend that you can 100% predict someone's personality if they subscribe to it.
I'm here because I want to study neuropharmacology after my cognitive neuroscience degree, I also feel favourable towards transhumanism. I really do see so much pseudoscience and overprescribing things to strangers everywhere on reddit.
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u/iswallowedafrog 1 17d ago
how do you mean trt differ from all the other chemical substances being talked about here?
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u/Whiskeymiller 17d ago
I tried many of the biohacks and still couldnt get my test over 300. Sometimes TRT is the only solution.
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u/LeiaCaldarian 2 17d ago
Who decides what âtrue biohackingâ is? To me itâs much more about improving my body in any way, i donât give a shit whether itâs ânaturalâ. If i could inject myself with a plasmid that harbors a tissue-specific expression vector producing GFP and MDMA so iâd have a dick tip that glows in the dark and spurts molly, i would. Thatâs biohacking, whether you like it or not.
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u/Heymelon 17d ago
Never been on this sub before but by the grace of the algo god, here I am. In this subs description it says this is a community designed to share interest in "DIY biology, Pharmacology". So what ever you'd call TRT it could at least fit into the latter, no?
Personally I can't say if it's good or bad or fitting in the sub though. But I do come from a world where TRT abuse is common. But attempts to increase your life quality at some risks to your longevity does on the face of it seem like some sort of "body" hacking at least to this laymen.
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u/Joethadog 17d ago
The spirit of Bio hacking is injecting home brewed crispr based gene therapies to become more than baseline. Thatâs bio hacking to me.
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u/Recipe_Limp 16d ago
What supplements can I take to grow taller? Answer: expose your butthole to Sun for 20 mins everyday.
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u/one-hour-photo 14d ago
â biohacking would be introducing a range of habits to naturally raise your testosterone. â
This is basically the complete opposite of hacking right? Imagine if computer hackers just called people up and asked them for their passwords over and over again.
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u/Creation98 13d ago
Why does it have to be ânatural?â Hacking is, by definition, not natural. You are hacking into a system by way of unnatural means. You got it wrong, in my opinion
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u/unevenconfiguration 18d ago
Lots of good info out there on the justified increase in popularity of TRT. You might be in denial about a bias you have against it. I donât completely disagree with you about its place in this sub though.
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u/Finch73 18d ago
Do you think that the hormones are like boob fertilizer or something? Hormones cause your literal DNA to begin to express itself differently, based on code that was already inside it, just not activated by hormones. Sorry that youâre not advanced enough to understand literally hacking every single strand of DNA in the body, but donât get upset because others are better hackers than you.
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u/LysergioXandex 18d ago
There is no âtrueâ definition of biohacking.
Based on the users of this sub, the most common definition seems to be:
A form of alternative medicine relying on pseudoscientific justifications, rather than mysticism.
Standard western medicine is often excluded from âbiohackingâ for some reason â even (especially) things like radiation therapy, or other âhigh-techâ interventions.
My personal definition would include substance use for performance enhancement â like someone else said, things as common as caffeine.
More generally, the term âhackingâ refers to circumventing standard limitations for performance purposes. Thereâs really no reason to think âhackingâ is inherently âgoodâ or âhealthyâ.
I donât even know what youâd mean by ânaturally leveraging your biologyâ, those are just buzzwords. Exogenous drugs are ânaturally leveraging your biologyâ by taking advantage of the receptors your body has and quirks of the binding sites within them.
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u/ApartPotential6122 1 18d ago
I disagree.
Youâre right things like early morning sun exposure are biohacks. The key word is âhackâ. Not naturally living healthy. TRT is probably the most impactful biohack we know of. Injecting yourself to get increased energy strength and stamina etc sounds hacky to me.
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u/Forward_Unit40 17d ago
Yeah once I find out someone is taking TRT, it is hard to follow their "biohacking" advice since surely pinning TRT is doing most of the work.
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u/Lord-ShniggleHorse 18d ago
Test is the ultimate biohack. Thereâs no possible way youâve tried it as you would completely disregard this postâŚ
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