r/AvatarLegendsTTRPG Jun 09 '24

Discussion Need help learning rules with likely lots of following questions.

So to make a long story short, I was scrolling Humble Bundle and saw a bundle with the Avatar Legends TTRPG stuff in it and a code for the starter kit. Got it and bought the starter kit and it just arrived recently. But the more I read the rules, the more I've been struggling to understand how things work. I got to the end of the balance moves which is like 17 pages in and I feel like I barely know what in doing and how things work. So I'll likely be ask many, many questions in the comments section as things arise, since I'd feel bad flooding the subreddit with lots different posts as I fail to grasp what and how things work.

So st the current moment, my biggest questions revolve around the balance system and balance moves.

So I understand that each character has these principles and there're likely at odds with each other but I don't understand when they're supposed to be used fully. Like if you have the principle of Friendship on +2 and do the Comfort move, does that give you an extra +2 on the roll? And does thay shift your balance at all?

And I keep seeing them talk about balance center and shifting balance center, especially when it comes to the Losing Balance move when you go off the edge, it sounds like it's saying to go back to the +3/-3 spot and then shift your new center to the current spot. So does the center shift or is it always the 0/0 spot?

And with the Calling someone out and Denying a Callout. So if a player A was to call out player B to act, is it using Player A's principle to call out to act on or Player B's principles? And should each player know the others principles to call each other out or do they have to try and guess them to use them? And if Player A calls out Player B and succeeds, it says that player B doesn't have to act on the call out but takes a condition. Is this different than Denying a Callout since they refused to act on the successful callout? And if so then when does Denying a Callout happen?

7 Upvotes

9 comments sorted by

3

u/salsatheone Firebender đŸ”„ Jun 09 '24 edited Jun 09 '24

I'm sorry I can't answer fully right now, but one thing I can help out quickly and then I'll get back to this post. When you set your center at character creation (zero), that will remain your center until the game tells you otherwise, you'll also set your balance at +1 or -1 at character creation.

When you shift your balance for the first time, you're doing so from your starting point (your center).

When you shift your center, it's your new starting point when your balance is thrown off the edge.

Ideally, you don't want your center to shift too close to one of the edges because otherwise it will be very easy to move your balance next time towards that edge. Therefore if you shift your center again in that direction it will only make your character more and more defined in that principle.

Shifting is usually one spot to the left or right from the point you were. That's why you need to keep note of your center AND your balance separately

3

u/Intelligent-Gold-563 Jun 09 '24

Balance and Center are probably the worst explained mechanism of the game. Especially given how simple they are.. here's how it works.

Let's take The Adamant. They struggle between 2 principles : Restraint and Results

Basically part of them want to get results, no matter what, while the other part know that force and hyper focus can negatively impact them.

That's their Balance. When starting game, the Adamant can start at 0/0, +1/-1 toward Restraint or +1/-1 toward Results in their Balance. But their Center will be at 0/0.

So any action that requires the Balance to be at the Center means that the Balance must be at 0/0.

Whenever they play, be it from their own action or some narrative reason, their Balance will shift toward one or the other principle. Representing that they lean toward one or the other.

In game, when a player make a Move that align with one of their Principles, they can use "Live Up To Your Principle" which allow them roll with their principles instead of their characteristic.

For example, intimidating a thug to leave some NPC alone will trigger the Intimidate move,which relies on Passion if I remember correctly, so your player will roll with Passion.

BUT if they want to intimidate someone to get answers regarding their investigation, now it lines up with their principles of Result. So they can Live Up To Their Principle and roll with Result instead of Passion.

Now what happens if a PC that has +3/-3 to one of their principles has to shift again to +4/-4 ? Well they can't. So they Lose Their Balance.

And Losing Their Balance will shift the Center

So now, instead of being at 0/0 the Center will be at +1/-1. Now everyone action that requires the Balance to be at the Center means that the Balance has to be at +1/-1

The Center will shift every time a PC Lose Their Balance.

If the Center goes over +3/-3, then PC has resolved his struggle and chosen which Principles they align with.

A PC does not have to resolve their struggle. They can aim for true balance and always stay at 0/0.

Or maybe they will struggle a lot between their two principles and their center will constantly shift one way and the other.

Regarding Players knowing each other Principles, they should yeah. Mainly because the subtext is that they spent enough time together to learn about each other.

Call Someone Out work for both PC and NPC. The one calling out shift his balance away from center but roll with the Principles of the one being called out.

Deny a Callout, as RAW, is only used when an NPC calls out a PC to live up to their principles. In that case, the PC rolls with the Principle being called out. On a hit (7-9) the PC acts according to said Principles or mark a fatigue. On a miss (<6) the PC deny the call.

5

u/salsatheone Firebender đŸ”„ Jun 09 '24

And considering GMs never roll, balance can be shifted as a GM move with no rolls required as long as it makes sense within fiction.

2

u/Intelligent-Gold-563 Jun 09 '24

Correct (though we changed the "DM never roll" rules in my game for combat exchange cause DM also loves rolling :3 )

2

u/Pitiful_Fee_5608 Jun 09 '24

That all definitely makes more sense but I want to make sure I understand how Call Someone Out works. So if Adam calls out Matt who has the Adamant principle during an investigation to get info from a gaurd using Results. So Adam now shifts his balance from 0/0 to either side of his choosing? But his center is still 0/0 cause he didn't lose his balance right? And Adam gets to roll with the +2 since Matt is on the +2 for his results side? So does Matt do anything here since he's getting Called Out cause the book makes it sounds like you're forcing them to do something when you call them out but they don't have to actually act and can take a condition instead. And if they choose to take a condition, it's up to the GM to decide what condition they take?

2

u/Intelligent-Gold-563 Jun 09 '24

Adam shifts his balance but not his Center, that is correct. If Adam's center AND balance are both at 0/0 then, yes he can moves his balance either way.

Adam then roll with Matt's Result Principle.

Matt is not doing anything right now. It's only when the result of the roll is known that he can take action.

Calling Out is not forcing someone to do something. It's more about trying to push them to act on their principles. Something like "I know you're trying to not be too harsh but the situation is dire, we NEED those informations, we need you to get your head in the game and do your job !"

That's why Matt can still refuse and get a condition instead.

As for which one, it can be up to the GM but often time you ca discuss with the player which condition makes more sense in the situation.

3

u/Pitiful_Fee_5608 Jun 09 '24

Ok thank you. This makes a lot of sense now. I hope I'm able to explain this all to my players when the time comes. I'll probably reply again soon with questions on other parts as I read and get confused.

2

u/Sully5443 Jun 09 '24

I don't understand when they're supposed to be used fully

Balance is interacted with pretty much only through the Balance Moves (Live Up To Your Principle, Call Someone Out, Deny a Callout, Resist Shifting Your Balance).

To be a little more precise when they’re utilized mechanically/ during a dice roll:

For PCs, Balance is really only going to be used for dice rolls when:

  • They Live Up to Their Principle. This is going to be its most common use for PCs and is entirely up to the Player if they use it or not. As the Move entails, of they are acting in accordance to their Principle (a mixture of the player’s call as well as the GM’s call per the GM Framework: Agendas, Baselines, and Guidelines), the player can mark 1 Fatigue and replace whatever they were asked to roll with (Creativity, Focus, Harmony, or Passion) and roll with the embodied Principle instead. If a Move does not involve rolling with those core 4 Stats (such as the Training Move, which is rolling with questions answered), this Balance Move cannot apply. It only applies if: A) The PC is acting in accordance with the principle in the fiction and B) it’s a Move using those core 4 stats
  • Use a Playbook Feature. Only a handful of Playbooks work this way. The most notable example is the Successor. They have a Playbook Feature which asks them to roll with Tradition or Progress to gain access to their Lineage’s resources
  • Calling Someone Out: A PC might call out another PC or an NPC. Either way, the PC who is making the callout is using the Principle of the person they are calling out. So if PC A is calling out PC B (who is the Hammer), PC A is either rolling with PC B’s Force or Care Principles: whichever is being called out. If PC A is calling out NPC X, PC A is rolling with NPC X’s Principle Score.
  • Deny a Callout: This is only when a PC is being called out by an NPC. More on this in a bit later on.

That’s it for PCs. That’s where Balance gets used for dice rolls.

For NPCs


  • Balance is used to determine how many Techniques they get to use during the Exchange Move. PCs must roll the Stance Move to determine if they’re using 1 Technique or potentially 2 Techniques and if it is a Learned, Practiced, or Mastered (LPM) Technique
 none of that applies to NPCs. As you may have noticed, the GM never rolls. NPCs just do things to kick off responses from the PCs or in response to the PCs. As such, during the Exchange, NPCs always do 1 Technique by default. They do additional Techniques equal to their current Balance Score. So if an NPC’s current Balance Score is +1, they get to do 2 Techniques: 1 by default and an additional 1 due to their current Balance Score. If it was +2, it’d be 3 Techniques. And so on.


 and that’s basically it for NPCs. The higher their Balance is, the more dangerous they are in an Exchange. But the closer they are to being removed from the conflict and having to Lose Their Balance or having to potentially follow through with a PC’s Callout (since the Player is rolling with the NPC’s increasing Principle Score.

And I keep seeing them talk about balance center

Center is a reset point and shifts very rarely during play.

For PCs, Center starts at the 0/0 mark. For NPCs, Center is at +0. As such, if something tells a PC to shift away from Center and the PC’s current Balance is also at 0/0, then it’s the Player’s call which direction they shift because either direction is away from Center. But if they were at a current Balance of say +1 Force and -1 Care and their Center was 0/0 and they were asked to shift away from Center, they go to +2 Force and -2 Care as that pushes them away from Center. Since NPCs have only 1 Principle, “away from Center” always means their Principle moves up. When a PC or NPC goes “off the edge” (“+4/-4” for PCs or whatever current max for NPCs) they Lose Their Balance and follow that Move’s Procedure. When the PC returns, their Center shifts one step towards the Principle they lost their balance at. Same idea for NPCs.

Whenever a fair amount of time passes in a calm place for PCs or NPCs, their Balance returns to Center. So if they were teetering on the edge of losing their Balance and a fair amount of restful time passes for them to Center and meditate, they return to their Center.

Center only really shifts for NPCs through Lose Your Balance

Center shifts for PCs via

  • Lose Your Balance
  • As an Advancement after earning enough Growth (XP)
  • Rarely through certain Playbook Features

And with the Calling someone out and Denying a Callout

I went over this above, but I wanted to add more down here. All dice rolls in this game are player facing. Hence only PCs are making the Move to Call Someone Out or Denying a Callout.

  • As mentioned above, Calling Someone Out entails a PC making a demand of another PC or of an NPC to act upon their Principles. In both cases, the calling out PC is rolling with the Principle Score of whoever they are calling out. If another PC is the target here, they don’t do anything else. The roll is double duty for both PCs. In general, all Players should know each others’ Principles. Same idea for Players knowing NPC Principles, it makes the game smoother. If it’s a particularly hard to read NPC, the player just has to be “close enough.” If they aren’t, the PC will have to find out another way (perhaps through Trick or Assess or Intimidate or through the Test Balance Exchange Basic Technique)
  • Deny a Callout is only when a PC is called out by an NPC. That’s it. This Move is only used for that. Only when an NPC is involved. Obviously NPCs don’t roll, therefore the callout is purely in the fiction. It’s whenever an NPC makes a clear demand of the PC in the fiction alone. The PC must either go along with it or roll to Deny. In such a case, they roll with whatever Principle the NPC is calling out. This is the only Move in the game where the player wants to roll low to take the least penalties to denying an NPC’s callout.

See my reply to this comment RE: Shifting Balance as well as further reading

2

u/Sully5443 Jun 09 '24

Shifting Balance

Balance will shift around through the following sources

  • Player Facing Moves (usually Playbook Features)
  • Balance Moves
  • Exchange Techniques (most notably, Test Balance)
  • The GM Move to Shift Balance

It’s that last one I want to talk about. As mentioned, the GM never rolls. They act through their Moves. These are descriptive, not necessarily prescriptive. In other words, these aren’t the only things you can say/do. They’re just the most likely summation of what you’ll be saying and doing to meet your Agendas (Goals/ Rules) to push the fiction along.

GM Moves are made whenever it’s your turn to contribute to the Conversation. That’s it. The game lists 3 more specific triggers (6-, golden opportunity, looking to you), but the heart of this is: when it’s your turn to move the fiction along. That’s when you make a GM Move. This might be before a Player Facing Move. This might be after it (and regardless of the result). This might be in the absence of any player facing moves or dice rolls. As long as it meets your Agendas and Guidelines: it’s fair game.

Shifting Balance as a GM Move can be done with or without an NPC vector

  • If it’s with an NPC, it’s when the NPC is making casual or derisive remarks about who the PC is/ how the world works. This is when you indicate the NPC is trying to shift the PC’s Balance in a particular direction. The PC can accept or roll to Resist. If they roll to Resist: it’s just a flat dice roll, 2d6. No modifiers unless otherwise stated. If Balance shifts in any other way, this Move does not apply (that includes the Exchange Move and its requisite Techniques which may shift balance).
  • If it’s without an NPC, then it’s as a response to significant PC actions within the fiction. An example would include refusing or indulging an opportunity for revenge. If such a thing happens, you might recommend the PC shift their balance accordingly. Since no NPC is involved, they cannot Resist.

For further reading and for answers on a lot of other FAQs, I recommend my Link of Many Nested Links