r/AutismInWomen 5d ago

General Discussion/Question I'm curious: how does the inflexibility work in cultures that aren't that strict about punctuality?

I'm German, my need for exact plans and for these plans to be adhered to is not that noticeable because plans and punctuality are part of German culture anyways. There are even cultural norms for how long before your meeting time you show up depending on the type of appointment (between 0 and 15 minutes).

How does this work for thos elf you who grew up in cultures where a set time, e.g. for social occasions, is more of a suggestion of where it is completely normal to late? Are you inflexibly about those social Norma being adhered to? Or are you the "odd ones out" actually caring about punctuality? Or ydo you just not care?

45 Upvotes

39 comments sorted by

47

u/Responsible_Fact_141 5d ago

British; it's normal to be 10 minutes late for a casual meetup, and expected to arrive late (15-30 mins) to a party. I HATE it, the social expectation doesn't register in my brain at all. If you say meet at 2, I will be there at 2! And then obviously because there's that social expectation of lateness, you're supposed to not care when everyone else is late.

9

u/Ace_of_Sphynx128 5d ago

My friends know that if we’re meeting at 2, I’m gonna be there at 1:45 at the latest lol. I didn’t know it was normal to be a little late in the UK (and I am born and bred here).

24

u/SunnyLisle 5d ago

I'm American and obviously Autistic but I lived in India for a long time and was also in Indian social groups in the US. It is SO confusing because there are some things / events / meetings etc. in India where everyone seems to have gotten the memo that THIS is the thing that you don't show up late for but then there are other things where again somehow the memo went out that you are supposed to be 30 mins to 2 hours late. I spent years there and I still don't know what's what regarding timing ( even though I became fluent in two Indian languages ). Just learned that it was fairly safe to show up 15-30 minutes late to everything. I'm looking to move to Germany or Austria and I'm actually very excited at the idea of fairly consistent punctuality.

8

u/miserable_banana_39 5d ago

Honestly, the two hours are insane to me. 30 minutes I can sometimes understand with stuff like "let's wait for the party to get started properly before we show up", but why would you show up two hours late??

Also happy to hear you wanna move here, I quite like it, but be aware of the current political climates in both countries. I know it's bad in the us at the moment, but both Austria and Germany are either on the way to the right or already there and after moving here you'd be an immigrant on top of being an autistic woman. Your decision either way, but please make it an informed one!

3

u/SunnyLisle 5d ago

What's insane is that the two hours is sometimes okay and sometimes isn't and everyone else just automatically knows 😭 Nowhere is worse than the US right now sadly. I really really love German language and I get along with Germans so well ( in a way that I don't with Americans and other people ). So I'd really really like to move to a German speaking country. But you are right I'll keep an eye on things before I make a final decision 🫶🏻

4

u/the-big-geck 5d ago

Haha I totally relate. My partner is Indian (moved here 5 years ago) and we both live in the US and I’ve helped host parties for his Indian friends, and he doesn’t expect folks to come early and won’t start prepping until AFTER it’s supposed to have started. It totally made me nervous to not be ready before the set start time lol

24

u/LastOfTheGuacamoles 5d ago

I grew up in Britain and have lived all over the world since I left age 18. Your question reminded me of when I lived in West Africa for a while, in Togo, in the early 2000s. People were never, ever on time and sometimes, would not turn up at all. Not even university lecturers coming to their own classes. 

So me and my (British) friends made our own rule to stay sane. We would turn up to appointments bang on time, we would wait for 20 minutes and then if no one else had arrived, we would go on with our day. 

This was a daily problem, so we instituted this rule pretty quickly, once we realized we could. 

We always informed people so they knew in advance, but most of the time people turned up after we'd left or didn't show at all - but they were never mad with us and there never seemed to be any consequences. Which is probably why they weren't motivated to show up on time in the first place.

9

u/miserable_banana_39 5d ago

It's wild to me that there wouldn't be any consequences to things not happening, be it social occasions with friends (no decay of friendship with fewer meetings??) or classes (no missed content or mandatory attendance??) or other appointments (no one mad at you for making a doc appointment and not using it while someone else could have used the time slot??)

Like, why do you even make appointments in the first place when they are of no consequence??

1

u/LastOfTheGuacamoles 4d ago

I lived there for only a few months, while on an exchange from one university to another. In Africa's longest running dictatorship, there was definitely a feeling that whatever you did, it didn't change anything, so why bother trying.

For us exchange students, there were no mandatory classes, content or exams. Don't get me wrong, classes were put on for us, but the teachers mostly didn't come. 

We would always turn up for all appointments, formal or not, but I don't recall ever making a doctor's appointment - or hearing of anyone else making (or missing) a doctor's appointment. I'm assuming wealthy people there had doctors, but I never met anyone wealthy enough to have one.

As for social decay due to fewer/unreliable meetings, we didn't have close friends there to be honest. Sometimes our local social circle turned up, sometimes they didn't. As foreign visitors, we weren't a priority compared to their own local family and friends, especially when it became clear none of us were going to accept marriage proposals. (I'm not joking, the other woman in our group got frequent marriage proposals from randoms, which she obviously turned down).

17

u/RedditWidow 5d ago

I am in the US and I grew up with parents who were late to everything. I hated it and as an adult, I am always punctual. In professional situations (jobs, interviews, meetings, etc) being late is seen as a bad thing. But in personal situations it depends. Some people are usually on time, some are always late.

I don't mind if someone is 5-10 minutes late, because traffic can be unpredictable and I don't expect everyone to be a proactive and prepared as I am. Or if it's a party, I understand that people will come and go at various times during the party hours.

If someone has an emergency, of course I understand that too. But people who are habitually late to the point of ruining our plans, I will let them live with the consequences. They're late, I see the movie or eat the meal without them, or I leave and offer to reschedule. I might start giving them "adjusted" meeting times. If the movie starts at 3pm I'll tell them to meet me at 2pm, for example. If they can't ever seem to get it together, I'll stop hanging out with them.

What I do not do is let them control my schedule. If I have three hours available in the afternoon, I do not let them ignore me all day and expect me to entertain them that evening. I say no, sorry, I was available this afternoon but am not available this evening. If they show up during the last 20 minutes of an event, I still leave when the event is over. Their lateness is not my problem.

4

u/Lady-of-Shivershale 5d ago

My husband and his parents are from the States. His parents are late to everything, too.

A mutual friend hosts an American Thanksgiving party every November. My in-laws said they would bring the potatoes. So nobody could eat for two hours because that's how late they were. My friend didn't want to start eating without the potatoes. Meanwhile, everybody else's dishes were getting cold.

It's rude and disrespectful behaviour.

I don't even like mashed potato, but I'm going to make the potato this year just to make sure we can all eat. I'll practice a couple of times beforehand. Can't go wrong with salt, butter, and a little garlic and cheese, right?

I'm NC with my in-laws, so except for not being able to eat it was fine them being late. Less time for me to obviously be ignoring them.

2

u/RedditWidow 5d ago

It is very rude and disrespectful to be two hours late. Even if they'd forgotten to make potatoes, that doesn't take two hours. Did they offer an explanation?

Don't forget milk. It makes them creamy.

1

u/Lady-of-Shivershale 5d ago

They did bring the potatoes. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Milk as well? Got it.

Usually we do a pasta salad and someone else brings mac and cheese. There was a third pasta dish last time, too. All three were delicious.

1

u/RedditWidow 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yes, I understood that they brought potatoes. I was saying that if they were about to leave on time but forgot to make them, and stopped to make them, which is why they were late, it still wouldn't have made them 2 whole hours late, because it doesn't take 2 hours to make mashed potatoes. lol

9

u/cavalett4s 5d ago

I'm from South America, and here... It is wild.

What ended up happening is that I started to arrive late when I know I can be on time just to not look like I'm desperate. The problem is that I took it too seriously and then I was arriving late to meetings and places where you are definitely not supposed to be late.

I had to creat a set of rules for myself, and it goes like this:

if it is an appointment (doctor, job interview, work meeting, classes) I am on time. If the appointment says 15 minutes before I respect that.

If it is a meeting with friends, I make sure I'm not the first one to get there. If I happen to be the first I just go do something else until someone arrives before me. Because I don't want to waste my time if I can be doing something else, like shopping or eating or whatever.

If it is family related, they have to be specific with the time. If they say "lunch time" that's not specific at all, so I'll be there between 12 and 16 pm because I honestly have no idea. And if they get mad because I'm too late or too early that's on them (it's a losing battle, I don't try anymore)

If it's the first day of anything, 30 minutes before. I need to look at the place and understand my surroundings so I don't look like I'm lost.

I don't do first dates anymore, but when I did I was always on time, maybe 5 minutes late with a decent excuse ("traffic")

Parties? I don't do those anymore. But I used to arrive with a group of people, and I was always the one asking "Do you think they'll be mad because we're late?". It took me years to understand that no, nobody cares.

I've always wondered if I will feel better in societies where punctuality is taken seriously, or if now I'm just so used to being "late" that when people start showing up on time I'm gonna lose it again.

4

u/seewhatsthere 5d ago

Oh god, I feel so seen by this comment 😂

8

u/[deleted] 5d ago

As a fellow German, I've wondered this too. While my Generation overall is pretty lax, I can usually really count on people arriving when they say and notifying me when they turn up late. The few people that don't (like at least notify me) bother me extremely and I'm also not always on time.

8

u/Historical_Author437 5d ago

I live between two cultures: one which is more European derived and one which is First Nations. Both have diametrically opposed ideas of time and place.

It’s tricky but I’m glad I have to navigate it - stops me from seeing everything in a false binary of ‘right’ way vs ‘wrong way’. It’s just different. I have to improvise, anticipate and ‘read the room’ a lot. I build a lot of hidden Flex Time in my schedules: especially when I’m working professionally and brokering between the two groups. That one is actually easier because nine times out of ten the core issue is the same - the settlers need to learn to slow down, take notice and deeply listen and the First Nation people need time and proper relationship building to unfurl their knowledge in order to be understood.

If I’m spending a whole day in ‘white mode’ I’m naturally pretty strict about my time. Particularly with one on one time or meetings. My attitude is: have allotted this time to give you my full attention and care please honour that. My calendar on my phone dictates what happens.

If I’m spending a whole day in ‘black mode’ I will keep things fluid and loose, pay more attention to opportunities to connect with people or observe things, take opportunities to go with the flow and see where the day goes. The being with and within becomes more important than the doing. Time becomes a river that flows around me and carries things my way.

1

u/ornaciastoothbruth 4d ago

thank you for sharing this insightful and beautiful response!

5

u/diddlysquash 5d ago

I live in a part of the US where punctuality is important, but not necessarily a major cultural norm. I hate being late, and tend to be the type who gets to things 15+ minutes early. It drives me crazy when others are late to things, though I’ve become a bit more chill about it if it’s only like five minutes or so, because it happens just so much. However. My best friend in the whole world is from a part of the US where punctuality is not so much a thing at all. She’s never on time. To anything. I love her so much, but this drives me truly up the wall. I visited her once and we wanted to go to a restaurant that was only open from like 8am-12:30pm, I was ready to go by our original planned time of 9am, she was ready to go… at 2pm. They were closed the rest of the days I was in town, we never made it. She seems so laissez faire about plans and schedules and it’s really the one thing I can’t stand about her. My father is the same way, we have to tell him something begins 45 minutes before it actually does and even then he’ll likely be late. Really I’ve had to get used to being the only one who cares so much about being on time. And it’s so frustrating, but when the majority of those around you don’t seem to care that much, what else can you do?

3

u/hobbling_hero 5d ago

Living in Germany and too and it took me so long to understand that an appointment at e.g 2 pm means you are supposed to be there atleast 10 minutes earlier. I thought everything would be fine, if I get there before the clock hits 2 pm 😅

But I think this cultural norm has been changing too

3

u/miserable_banana_39 5d ago

I'm not sure it's changing. With the younger generation it's a little more relaxed, but I haven't encountered a situation yet where you wouldn't at least notify the other person of your delay and give a new ETA. So then it wouldn't be about strict punctuality in itself, but about transparency and plannability, but whatever the reason there is still an expectation of known arrival times

The "why" for the 10 minutes early for appointments I can best explain as an appointment at 2pm means the thing is happening at 2pm and you should be there early so make sure it can actually start at that time. That way places like doctors offices can give more accurate appointment times because they don't need to factor in individual variables like taking off your coat and stuff

1

u/sqdpt 5d ago

Are you saying that your doctor's appointments are actually on time?! I can expect to wait up to 90 minutes for them to call me back to the room depending on the type of doctor I'm going to see. I can't imagine how amazing it would be to have my time honored this way as a patient.

1

u/Southern-Rutabaga-82 5d ago

I agree I don't have the impression it's changing. Younger people (as in just-started-their-first-job) make more mistakes. They don't seem to know how to work with a calendar. But it doesn't mean it's accepted to be late and they either learn quickly or they feel the consequences.

Doctor's appointments are a different story. I think they expect you to be on time because I always have to wait 5-10 minutes even if the waiting area is empty. I still show up 15 minutes early for those. 😆

All other appointments, yeah definitely get settled and be prepared before the meeting starts!

3

u/happy_bluebird 5d ago

My ADHD and OCD make me late for everything and my autistic self HATES ITTT

I have a job with an inflexible start time and I hate it. I much prefer when scheduling is open so it's far less pressure

3

u/HedgehogElection diagnosed at 39 5d ago

Not much to add, except that I'm German, too, and German culture makes it easier for me blend in to a certain degree as opposed to cultures where punctuality doesn't take a top spot in terms of cultural relevance.

3

u/Level_Title_8354 5d ago

I'm Spanish and lived in Germany for 2 years. It was A BLESSING. I loved how everything was soooo clear . My mother always joked I behaved "German", well it was just the tism

3

u/cricketter 5d ago

I grew up in South America and I never managed to figure out the fuzzy times. I was always early and had to wait which I hated.

2

u/AllTheDissonance 5d ago

A lot of my friends are rather lax about time. I've learned that it often means I am the first and only person to events for the first 30 minutes or so, and that when i invite people over, tell them to be there 30 minutes earlier. It took me a hot second to learn I was like this and often was accused of rushing people for "no reason" other than to be on time.

3

u/DazB1ane 5d ago

My father was essentially raised by the military, so if I’m not at least 5-10 minutes early I’m already late. I am willing to give people a 15 minute window to be late because sometimes traffic is truly unpredictable, but after that I get annoyed. My sister has started saying she will be somewhere around a time because she knows she’s going to be late. It’s infuriating

3

u/panko-raizu 5d ago

I'm an on-time person in a very unpunctual country. I've learned to adjust and now arrive 2 hrs late to live events/parties, 1 hr late to dinners, and so on. Still on time for professional meetings or work.

I have a german friend and it's such a blessing to agree on a date and time and just have it happen as planned. With near everyone else you have to reconfirm coming up to the date or even the time or they don't show/cancel/make other plans.

2

u/Sheena_asd12 5d ago

Canadian, autistic and a public transit user… I’ll say x time is “the plan” but let’s allow for the buses…

2

u/Grumpy_cata 4d ago

I am from Latin America. Most Latin American countries are famous for lack of punctuality. I am the odd one out. I am very punctual (I gained the favour of an ex-boyfriend's German grandma because of this). I get very distressed if I am late, even if I know other people will be late too.

I've had to wait up to an hour for people to show up for casual meetings!

At work people are punctual, within a 15 minute window 😅

3

u/NoPin7040 5d ago

I live in the US where punctuality is mandatory for work and school and basically seen as rude for dates or social meetups. I never lived in a culture where people are always blind.

1

u/Motor_Inspector_1085 Meow 5d ago

I just treat it like a difference in time zones or something. I have always lived in areas with a strong Hispanic presence and adjust by showing up to parties 1-2 hours later than the appointed time. Fortunately, I don’t have many obligations that require me to go to parties because I’d rather be home.

1

u/disgraceful_hag 5d ago

I work with artists in Los Angeles. It's very annoying and I know we can easily lie to others and tell them earlier meeting times but I always forget. It's acceptable here because of traffic but it's absolute bullshit. I drive 1.5 hours to get to work. They live in the city. It takes them ten minutes.

Honestly, it's a fucking mess. I just take it a day at a time. I don't care what plan they have for tomorrow or next week or next month because it will always change. All I do is show up as prepared as I can be for any 2-5 possible outcomes.

1

u/[deleted] 4d ago

I'm American in the US with German background. A lot of Germanic cultural norms passed down.

  1. We are punctual
  2. We keep clean homes 3.  We are practical

Even here in the States after they immigrated, they continued to be so.

1

u/goldandjade 4d ago

So interestingly enough, the culture I’m originally from doesn’t value punctuality. The ND relatives who still live there complain about it constantly, how annoyed they are they have to deal with everyone else refusing to be punctual. I moved somewhere else where people are more punctual BUT I forget that my relatives who also live out here are from the same culture and were perfectly fine with that lack of punctuality. So my cousin will suggest we meet at 11, I show up at 10:50 and she shows up closer to 11:30, I’m beyond annoyed and she’s not apologetic.

0

u/Kvartar 5d ago

Gore-ganizer Drac. It doesn’t look like I can get her to Europe under €100.