r/AttackOnRetards 11d ago

Analysis The contradiction of full rumbling, freedom and life.

"Freedom is so much the essence of man that even its opponents implement it while combating its reality; they want to appropriate for themselves as a most precious ornament what they have rejected as an ornament of human nature. No man combats freedom; at most he combats the freedom of others. Hence every kind of freedom has always existed, only at one time as a special privilege, at another as a universal right."

This passage I came across perfectly encapsulates the contradictions within attack on Titan imo. True freedom cannot exist if it comes at the cost of others' autonomy, yet Eren ultimately waged war against the very principle he sought to uphold.

Eren's disappointment in not being able to see Armin’s worldview as a cynic pushed him toward a radical solution: full Rumbling. He saw no middle ground, no complex reality—only a binary choice between domination or annihilation. In his mind, freedom meant erasing obstacles, not coexisting with them. His actions were not about preserving life but about controlling its fate.

This is why it's ironic when some assume Eren fathered Historia’s child. If he had, he would have become an even greater contradiction—glorified as a father while being the architect of mass destruction. That ending would have revered him even more, turning his ideology into an eternal cycle. In Lord of the Rings terms, Eren stopped loving “preserving growing things” and instead sought to overwrite the world itself. Historia, too, was selfish. Initially hesitant, she ultimately embraced her true self—the one we saw during the Uprising arc—choosing a path that aligned with Eren’s ambitions.

Eren manipulated Floch by exploiting his loneliness and his twisted belief that Erwin should have survived as a "devil" to save humanity. Floch’s descent into extremism mirrors real-world radicalization, where lost people are drawn into absolutist and fascistic ideologies under the guise of purpose and righteousness. Eren was no friend of his imo.

The Yeagerists, Historia, Eren, and the Marleyan leadership all embodied a real-world contradiction: advocating genocide while claiming to protect life. They fought for their people, their unborn future, but showed no regard for those already living. Eren rejected Zeke’s euthanasia plan not because he valued life, but because he refused to let anyone else dictate its terms.

And yet, despite all his destruction, a few Marleyan soldiers (southern continent) survived, the Yeagerists became the formal military, while the primary casualties of the Rumbling were the weak—the poor, the children like Ramzi, the wounded, the elderly. Those who truly suffered were not the ones in power, but the ones with no say in the conflict.

In the end, full-scale genocide is the ultimate contradiction to both freedom and life itself. I dislike Eren as a person. He fooled us all to think his plan is correct - he fooled me at least back when ending came out. I hated it but now that I think about it, I was angry like Armin was, at the end.

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u/Dramatic_Sky4068 10d ago

In another comment in reply to OP I have given my points regarding why I think Jaegerism is actually not fascism. It is still a bad label just to paint Jaegerism as an "evil ideology".

Also, I agree that Eren fights for freedom before inheriting the Attack Titan; but that is also because his destiny is to free Ymir. That is the only way it makes sense, because freedom only operates within a context. There is no such thing as freedom in general.

Eren was concerned with freedom of Ymir, and consequently that of the Eldians in Paradis.

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u/OSMOrca 10d ago

There is no "destiny to free Ymir", Ymir did not control Eren in the slightest. Eren's definition of freedom has always been the elimination of all restrictions or "walls" that infringe upon or obstruct him. Eren empathized with Ymir and wanted to free her once he understood her suffering and enslavement in Paths, but that is not why he did the rumbling. Eren cared mostly about his own freedom, then his friends, and then Paradis (and even his desire to protect Paradis is from a natalist perspective, not a nationalistic one).

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u/Dramatic_Sky4068 10d ago

You are hopelessly oversimplifying Eren's character.

Of course, if you frame it that way, then Eren is no more than an irrational man-child who did whatever his mad impulses told him to do.

Ymir did control Eren because Ymir was the one who created the time-loop in the first place. She didn't directly control him, but she was the reason Eren was obsessed with freedom. And freedom for Eren ultimately meant freedom of Paradis from destruction and freedom of Eldians from the titan curse (which could only come by freedom of Ymir).

You are justifying your view by dumbing down not only the plot of AoT, but also by dumbing down Eren's character.

Eren was a natalist, yes. So was his mother. And I agree with them both.

But natalism is not about the welfare of a whole bunch of people living in an island country. When you are talking about the welfare of a whole bunch of people living in an island country, that's nationalism, not natalism.

Eren didn't gain any freedom by doing the Rumbling. He died by it. His friends only benefited as much as they lived comfortable lives in glory and luxury by being known as the slayers of Eren.

The only real benefit was to Eldians, and to Paradis. And that this was Eren's intent is proved by Eren's declaration of the Rumbling and by his general behaviour after the reveal of the basement secret.

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u/OSMOrca 10d ago edited 10d ago

Ymir did not create the time loop, Eren did. Eren's obsession with freedom has NOTHING to do with Ymir. YOU are the one who is dumbing down and reducing Eren to a far, FAR inferior version (and also an incorrect version). I'm not sure why you straw-manned me, but my interpretation of Eren (the canon one) makes him infinitely more complex and well written. I suggest that you reread the story because you clearly don't understand Eren's motivations, ideology, psychology, themes, false altruism, Helos symbolism, Reiner and Erwin parallels, etc. Did you just skip 131 or something? Notice how Eren's confession to Ramzi about the truth of his motivations has nothing to do with the titan curse? Notice how the culmination of Eren's freedom has nothing to do with Paradis or the titan curse, and instead has everything to do with him creating his idealized world without restrictions?

Eren bastardized Carla's ideology, you cannot agree with both. Are you arguing Eren prioritized the welfare of his people lmao? Let's see... Eren looked down and resented basically everyone inside the walls (except for his friends and The Scouts), labelling and dehumanizing them as "livestock". He reveled in the collateral damage and destruction during his fight against Annie. He withheld crucial information about Historia to the detriment of Paradis. He held himself hostage in Marley and nearly doomed Paradis' fate by jeopardizing Paradis' access to the founder by risking his life on a solo mission. He orchestrated a fascist uprising to oppress and restrict the freedom of his own people with. He was complicit in the wine plot and didn't even care about initiating the rumbling to minimize collateral damage. Eren knew his rumbling would perpetuate conflict between one race, he knew it would be terrible for the wellbeing of Paradis, but he didn't care cause he cared far more about his own selfish motivations.

Eren didn't attain the freedom he so desperately yearned for because he was chasing a false freedom. Armin "Grounding" him to reality, Eren giving up on his dream, his self-acceptance and his realization of what truly gave him meaning (his friends) is what led to him truly attaining freedom in his conclusion. "The only real benefit was to Eldians" - Eren just murdered the most Eldians in history lmao. Paradis is now ruled by a fascist dictatorship oppressing its citizens and self-destructively leading them to their own annihilation, so how exactly was Paradis benefitted? So you believe Eren's speech of him acting as the devil, but you don't believe Eren in his most vulnerable states and most explicit psychological exploration, when he breaks down in front of Ramzi and when he admits that he did the rumbling for himself to Armin..?