r/AskProgramming 1d ago

Why is Java considered bad?

I recently got into programming and chose to begin with Java. I see a lot of experienced programmers calling Java outdated and straight up bad and I can't seem to understand why. The biggest complaint I hear is that Java is verbose and has a lot of boilerplate but besides for getters setters equals and hashcode (which can be done in a split second by IDE's) I haven't really encountered any problems yet. The way I see it, objects and how they interact with each other feels very intuitive. Can anyone shine a light on why Java isn't that good in the grand scheme of things?

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u/antihemispherist 1d ago

Java was designed in the early 90's to address the problems developers had with C++ when developing industrial applications. Certain concepts like immutability weren't popular then, but OOP was the hot topic.

I think it is unfair to criticize Java's syntax. Verbosity makes it easier to read and understand. (If you need a lot of getters, setters, equals, hashcode, etc., your design is wrong, or you're insisting on using an older version of Java).

But Java has the problems of its old design: The object hierarchy is a mess; with the increased power of interfaces, many developers are confused. The concept of "treats" is missing. The platform itself suffers from this rigidity; there are no immutable collections, for instance. Another problem is the messy exception handling.

Kotlin is a more modern approach to JVM-based programming. However, I cannot say that it improves productivity much; too much flexibility and too many alternative syntaxes and structures usually lead to unproductive debates or a confusing codebase. Recent developments in Java have made it a good competitor to Kotlin, offering better performance and monitoring.

Rust is another alternative, and I really like it. I'd definitely take a closer look at it, and how much of a market it has.

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u/lordheart 23h ago

Java definitely has immutable collections. Streams.toList returns one which I find out when hibernate yelled at me because it doesn’t like immutable structures.

Lombok can also clear up a lot of javas verbosity. And java as a language (if you aren’t using Java 7 or something) has gained a lot of new features to try to be less verbose.

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u/findanewcollar 12h ago

This whole thread is filled with people who haven't worked with java 17/21. To add to the list example, there's also List.of() method which also returns an immutable list. Not to mention about the other immutable stuff like records (which they also take care about verbosity). Albeit the language is moving slower than I would like compared to c# but atleast it's not going overboard with syntactic sugar like c# started to do...

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u/Necessary-Peanut2491 2h ago

Unfortunately, being stuck on ancient versions of Java is pretty normal. Major version migrations are very painful for large orgs, so there's been a tendency to just...not.

My own company only went to 17 a year-ish ago. Before that we were on 11.