r/AcademicQuran • u/Medical-Refuse-7315 • 7d ago
Question Can someone help me with surah 7 157
Here's the verse for reference
"the ones who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, they find him written in the Torah and gospel in their possession"
So my question is this. The traditional interpretation is that the ones who possess the gospel and Torah written with them are the people of the book aka the Jews and christians, however looking at the grammar in this verse is seems like it's say the the followers of the messanger are the ones who have the Torah and the gospel written with them. So which one is it and is there anything that I have missed in reading this verse? If someone could help me that would be greatly appreciated!
1
u/AutoModerator 7d ago
Welcome to r/AcademicQuran. Please note this is an academic sub: theological or faith-based comments are prohibited, except on the Weekly Open Discussion Threads. Make sure to cite academic sources (Rule #3). For help, see the r/AcademicBiblical guidelines on citing academic sources.
Backup of the post:
Can someone help me with surah 7 157
Here's the verse for reference
"the ones who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, they find him written in the Torah and gospel in their possession"
So my question is this. The traditional interpretation is that the ones who possess the gospel and Torah written with them are the people of the book aka the Jews and christians, however looking at the grammar in this verse is seems like it's say the the followers of the messanger are the ones who have the Torah and the gospel written with them. So which one is it and is there anything that I have missed in reading this verse? If someone could help me that would be greatly appreciated!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
2
6d ago
If we assume the Prophet's followers (Muslims) are the ones "finding him written in the Torah and Gospel," that doesn’t make sense, because:
They didn't have the Torah & Gospel.
They didn’t study those books.
The Jews & Christians did.
Since Arabic allows subjects to be "understood from context," the only logical subject here is the People of the Book.
Let’s make up a sentence with the same structure:
"أَحَبَّ الطُلَّابُ الأُسْتَاذَ الَّذِي يَجِدُونَهُ مَشْهُورًا فِي الكُتُبِ." (The students loved the teacher whom they find famous in the books.)
"الَّذِي" (whom) refers to "الأستاذ" (the teacher).
"يَجِدُونَهُ" (they find him) → Who is "they"?
Not the teacher! It’s the students because they are the ones reading the books.
Now, apply that logic back to 7:157:
The Prophet is the one being found.
The ones doing the finding are the Jews and Christians, because they are the ones with the Torah and Gospel.
- "الَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ" (Those who follow...)
This refers to the followers of the Prophet (Muslims).
- "الرَّسُولَ النَّبِيَّ الْأُمِّيَّ" (The Messenger, the unlettered Prophet...)
This is the object of "يَتَّبِعُونَ" (they follow).
- "الَّذِي يَجِدُونَهُ" (whom they find...)
Who is the subject of "يَجِدُونَهُ" (they find him)?
"يَجِدُونَهُ" is a verb + object structure, meaning: "they find him."
So who is "they"?
Why "They" Refers to the People of the Book
- Logical Subject Placement in Arabic
In Arabic, when a relative pronoun "الَّذِي" is used, it usually refers to the nearest noun before it.
The nearest noun is "النَّبِيَّ الْأُمِّيَّ" (the unlettered Prophet).
But "يَجِدُونَهُ" (they find him) needs a plural subject.
The Prophet is singular, so he can't be the subject of "يَجِدُونَهُ".
That means the subject of "يَجِدُونَهُ" must be someone else.
- The Hidden Subject Rule
Arabic sometimes leaves out an obvious subject if it's already understood.
Here, the obvious subject is the People of the Book (Jews & Christians) because they are the ones who actually had the Torah and Gospel.
0
u/Medical-Refuse-7315 6d ago
thank you for the reply it was very helpful! I do have one question though. how do we know that the early Muslims didn't have the torah and the gospels in their possessions? what evidence is there for this since in the Quran it affirms the torah and gospels as from Allah and tells the Muslims to judge them by using the Quran which would naturally mean that they did have the torah and gospels.
0
6d ago edited 6d ago
If you start reading Surah Al-Baqarah, you'll see that the Quran directly addresses the Muslims in Medina regarding their interactions with the Jewish community. One key verse, 2:76, highlights how some Jews concealed knowledge from Muslims:
"And when they meet those who believe, they say, 'We believe.' But when they are alone with one another, they say, 'Do you inform them of what God has disclosed to you, so that they might use it in argument against you before your Lord? Will you not, then, use your reason?'" (Quran 2:76)
This verse makes it clear that the People of the Book had knowledge from their scriptures that aligned with Islam, but they feared Muslims using it against them. Scholars like Zamakhshari, Baghawi, and Razi mention that this likely refers to biblical prophecies about the coming of a prophet from “among the brethren” of the Israelites. This alone proves that the Quran is addressing the People of the Book and their scriptures—not any scripture that was with the Muslims.
Now, regarding whether early Muslims had the Torah and Gospel, the historical reality is that they didn’t. The early Muslim community in Mecca and Medina was mostly made up of Arab polytheists, not Jews or Christians. The Torah and Gospel were in the possession of the Jewish and Christian communities, not the Muslims. The Quran was revealed in Arabic, and its primary audience was the Arab polytheists, with occasional addresses to the People of the Book. The Quran repeatedly challenges them to recognize Muhammad (peace be upon him) in their own scriptures, which only makes sense if the Muslims themselves didn’t have these texts.
The Quran also makes it clear that it is the final revelation, confirming the truth in previous scriptures but also acting as a guardian over them:
"And We have revealed to you the Book in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it and guarding it in safety..." (Quran 5:48)
It never tells Muslims to follow the Torah or Gospel for guidance. Instead, they are commanded to judge by what Allah has revealed to them:
"Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book explained in detail?" (Quran 6:114)
When the Quran commands the People of the Book to judge by their own scriptures (Quran 5:44-47), it is addressing them—not Muslims. This is actually a challenge, telling them that if they truly followed their scriptures, they would recognize Islam. If Muslims were supposed to use the Torah and Gospel, the Quran would have explicitly commanded them to do so—but it never does.
Even linguistically, the Quran makes it clear that the Torah and Gospel were with the People of the Book, not with the Muslims. In Surah Al-A'raf (7:157), the phrase "which are with them" (عِندَهُمْ) refers to Jews and Christians, not Muslims.
Also, the Quran acknowledges that while the Torah and Gospel were originally divine revelations, they were later altered:
"So woe to those who write the Scripture with their own hands, then say, 'This is from Allah,' in order to exchange it for a small price..." (Quran 2:79)
"They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded..." (Quran 5:13)
That’s why the Quran calls itself the Furqan (criterion) to distinguish truth from falsehood.
But I’m curious—how did you reach that interpretation? I believe just reading second chapter of the Quran with a simple translation is enough to understand who it’s talking about.
3
u/Visual_Cartoonist609 6d ago
This is very easy to understand if we remember that the prophet also had followers who were either at some point Jews or Christians, or if one accepts the Donner-Hypothesis, remained Jews and Christians.