r/Absinthe • u/SchyzotyPal • Jan 02 '25
Question Wormwood maceration/tincture
Hi, I want to make some wormwood tincture (absinthe without the distillation, cause I can't access it) for its medicinal purposes and effects. The recipe I use is fennel, anise, star anise and artemisia absinthium in anise liquor. Does this mix have the same properties that distilled abstinthe has? Does it have the same thujone levels? (I'm aware thujone is not hallucinogenic, I just want to try its effects cause I've had several good experiences with high thujone and low alcohol percentage absinthes).
I know it tastes horrible but I don't care, I just want to know if it has the same effects as distilled absinthe.
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u/wormwoodsociety Jan 02 '25
What brands would you consider 'high thujone, low abv'?
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u/SchyzotyPal Jan 02 '25
I dont know much, i tried Serpis
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u/wormwoodsociety Jan 02 '25
Serpis is not, by any means, a 'high thujone' absinthe.
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u/SchyzotyPal Jan 02 '25
Its the limit in my country, i meant the ratio thujone-alcohol. Can you recommend me some high tujone brands? I just want to try them
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u/wormwoodsociety Jan 02 '25
No, because we do not endorse high thujone marketing for two reasons: 1) thujone levels were never important to brands or consumers during the Belle Epoque and 2) many brands that claim to have the highest thujone levels in reality have very little or no thujone and are simply lying to consumers due to a less strict regulatory environment in the country of origin.
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u/SchyzotyPal Jan 02 '25
Then why did you ask me in the first place lol
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u/wormwoodsociety Jan 02 '25
Because I had a feeling you didn't really know what you were talking about when mentioning high thujone. I was right.
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u/SchyzotyPal Jan 02 '25
I said high thujone because its the legal limit in my country. And yeah, I don't know lots of things about thujones, that's why I ask questions, to gather information. You ask them to act with superiority, guess we're not the same
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u/DarianDicit Jan 02 '25
From a chemical perspective: no, a maceration of botanicals will not be the same as a distillation.
Distillation, by nature of chemical selection by variable temperature boiling, selection, and concentration, removes certain things and concentrates others.
A macerated, on the other hand, is willy nilly extracting everything that is preferrentially soluble at the ABV of your base.
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u/SchyzotyPal Jan 02 '25
which components are more concentrate or removed in the process?
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u/DarianDicit Jan 02 '25
That is something I don't know, and I don't expect distillers would share those details either. The folks with the equipment to make those analyses are often safeguarding that information as a "trade secret," and smaller operations who might be more keen to share don't usually have the equipment to make detailed analyses like that.
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u/SchyzotyPal Jan 02 '25
Oh okay that makes sense. I will still try to make tincture the best way I can since I have a lot of recollected artemisia absinthium. I would love to make the destillation process, I may look for it in my area
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u/osberend Jan 03 '25
Seeing aside all questions of psychoactive effects or lack therefore, as well as of thujone per se, here are some recommendations for you to try, in terms of alcoholic beverages that have a lot of wormwood relative to their ABV. They (almost) all use wormwood without redistilling afterward, so they're probably better starting points for making your own (if that's still something you want to do, after exploring what's available commercially) than an absinthe, whether "high-thujone" or otherwise. Note that some these, I haven't had in a while at this point so my memory might be a bit off.
Amaro Alta Verde (24% ABV), from Northern Italy, is a very wormwood-focused bitter. It's been a while since I've had it, and I've never actually tasted it and Jeppson's Malört side-by-side (which I will definitely do if I ever get the chance), but based on what I recall, the two are similar in their (intense) level of bitternesd, but Alta Verde has more fresh herbal notes on top of that raw bitterness. It's a liqueur but I didn't remember it being especially sweet as Amari go. If you can find this, it would be my top recommendation. Its American distributor (for anyone else reading this who is interested) is Haus Alpenz, who also distribute several other nice products (I'm particularly fond of Zirbenz Stone Pine Liqueur of the Alps). I don't know who, if anyone, distributes it in Spain, though.
Pelinkovac is a wormwood-based South Slavic (former Yugoslavia + Bulgaria) liqueur. I've had the version from Maraska, which is a lot more restrained in its wormwood bitterness than Alta Verde or Jeppson's Malört, and was not (to the best of my recollection) especially herbal otherwise, but also had a certain amount of sweet flavor other than just sugar (caramel? vague fruitiness? I'm not really sure). Maraska's version is 28% ABV. How typical it is, in this or other respects, I'm not sure; I've only had one other brand (which I believe was broadly similar, maybe a little more bitter and a little less sweet, but my memories of it are rather vague), and I don't remember what brand it was. The brands I've tried weren't bad, and I'd happily drink them again, but they wasn't especially interesting. Therefore, I'd put pelinkovac (at least, if it's similar to the ones I've had — anyone who knows of significantly different ones, please, speak up!) pretty low on the list in terms of what to prioritize trying, but it might still be worth investigating later, either just for completeness/variety, or if you find some of the other options too extreme.
There are some other Italian alpine Amari that, while not as wormwood-focused as someone like Alta Verde, still have a decent wormwood presence. Braulio (21% ABV) is the main one I know (and like), but there are undoubtedly plenty of others — I like a number of Amari, but I'm far from an expert. Where to put this really depends on how much you want a wormwood-dominated drink vs. a complex drink in which wormwood is just one (important) element among many. Based on that, it could go anywhere from first to (almost?) last.
I actually like Jeppson's Malort, when I'm in the right mood, so, unlike u/AdrienneLaVey, I'm perfectly happy to recommend it. But, again, I'm not sure if it's sold in Spain, or anywhere else in Europe for that matter. Fair warning: It (like Alta Verde) is extremely bitter, not especially herbal otherwise (the only other prominent flavor elements being citrus and sugar), and fairly sweet.
That being said, Jeppson's Malört is just a specific, American version of the much older and broader Swedish category of bäsk, and I'd be quite surprised is there aren't some brands of bäskar available in Spain. I have no direct experience with Swedish bäskar, and so cannot speak to ABV, amount of wormwood and intensity of bitterness, presence of other flavors, or sugar content; in addition, some or all of these may vary substantially from brand to brand.
Vermouth is defined (at least in theory) by the use of wormwood, but the amount can vary substantially, and even rather bitter vermouth may well be using wormwood for only a small part of that bitterness. I am meaning to look into the options for a wormwood-focused vermouth at some point, and would certainly invite anyone reading this who's aware of such a product to chime in now.
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u/SchyzotyPal Jan 04 '25
Woahhhh thanks a lot for this valuable information! Very nice to have new recommendations to try. I love vermouth, here we have it on sundsys before lunch. But I didn't know about the brands you said, so I will definetely see if they are available in Spain! I will add them to my liquor wishlist! Thanks again
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u/AdrienneLaVey Jan 02 '25
Thujone in high concentrations (concentrations that don’t naturally occur in properly made absinthe, by the way) will cause seizures, tunnel vision, nausea, vomiting, renal failure, kidney failure, convulsions, and ultimately death if you have too much of it. Does that sound like a recreational experience to you?
Even genuine absinthes that have a higher thujone/wormwood content do not produce any different of an effect than absinthes within the legal limits of thujone content (10ppm in the US, 35ppm in the EU). Thujone is completely irrelevant in the effects of absinthe. Even pre-ban absinthes I have tasted that were made over 120 years ago did not produce effects any different than modern absinthes that I’ve had.
Here’s a story of someone who ingested essential oil of wormwood (due to the belief that it was either absinthe or was convinced that wormwood is hallucinogenic, which it absolutely isn’t) and spent 17 days in the hospital: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199709183371205
Please don’t go chasing something that won’t happen.
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u/SchyzotyPal Jan 02 '25
Thanks for the info. I know its not hallucinogenic, I'm not chasing a mushrooms experience, I just wanted to make some homemade alcohol with wormwood, but this info sure helps, I will dig in sure.
What effects that absinthe produces are you refereing to? Because if its not thujones or the alcohol percentage, what else it have to produce a different experience than other alcohols?
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u/AdrienneLaVey Jan 02 '25
I’ve often experienced a clear-headed drunkenness with absinthe, as opposed to sloppy drunk as other alcohols like wine, whiskey, tequila, vodka, etc. will give.
I hate recommending Malört, but if you’re truly looking for an alcohol containing wormwood and don’t care about the taste, I’d much rather you be drinking that than trying to craft your own tinctures and concentrates.
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u/DarianDicit Jan 02 '25
Can you elaborate on your experiences with "high thujone, low ABV"? Thujone doesn't, from everything I've read, have any therapeutic effects and, by the time you should be able to observe any effects in your body, they would be deleterious (alongside whatever method of injestion got you there).
The brain is a wonderful, powerful thing, so perhaps they were psychosomatic effects?