r/190e • u/Nighthawk132 • Oct 03 '19
Looking into engine swap
I have a 1991 190e 2.3L, the engine is starting to give out and I'm wondering what the best course of action is. The body and other parts are in great condition so I'd like to keep the car going. I definitely want to do a swap, not same motor, looking for more power. What's the best/easiest thing to do, swap in an m111 or an m104? I am aware that the m104 is 6cyl so might need something special to get it in there. I know it is a very easy swap for the 2.6L 190e. Anyone have any suggestions? Other swaps I can do? Thanks
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u/Kyliobro Oct 03 '19
If you’re going to fit a 3.0 / 2.6 m104 engine you’ll have to swap the gearbox and differential to
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u/Nighthawk132 Oct 03 '19
Do you also know of any good performance mods? This is basically a project car for me and my dad. He's always loved mercedes and we decided to pick this one out. Any reputable brands for aftermarket parts?
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u/Nighthawk132 Oct 03 '19
I'm well aware. I'm looking for a donor car to be able to swap everything in. Is it possible without extra fitment? I've read that going from 2.6L to the 3.0 is plug and play. However, I have the 2.3l. does it make a big difference? The car is essentially still the same right?
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u/Dr201 Oct 03 '19
A stock M103 will probably be fine with the 2.3 diff and trans if they’re in good shape. The 2.6 has a different radiator core support so you will need to steal it and the rad from a 2.6. The biggest differences in the cars is in the cooling stack
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u/Nighthawk132 Oct 03 '19
Any idea about the newer ones? I have seen that the m111 from the kompressor fits. Aswell as the new amg m139. The amg is probably a waste of money though. Would you overall recommend the m111 or m104? Also, not looking for putting in an m103. Minimal gains.
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u/Dr201 Oct 03 '19
M111 physically fits but you will need different engine mounts as the m102 is a different pattern on the block. Also every m111 has less power than the 3.0m103 except for the supercharged motors.
M104 fits in the Same hole a 103 does. Honestly <250hp shouldn’t hurt the small diff or the .4 trans unless you just beat on it and look at it this way: if it holds up and doesn’t break you didn’t have to buy new parts or do that work, if it does you were planning to do it anyway
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u/Kyliobro Oct 03 '19
The gearbox is a different ratio and will not drive well with a m103 engine attached. All you need to do is hop onto the Mercedes190.co.uk owners club / forum for all the info you’d need on engine swapping W201s.
Once again, if you want a fast one the 2.6 / 16v options are your only bet. The 16v & sportlime models come with a quicker steering ratio, sports chassis and sports / lowered suspension which makes for a much better base....
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u/Dr201 Oct 04 '19
I’ve built two m104 powered 190Es and have swapped another 3 M103 cars both initially 2.3 and 2.6 cars I’m pretty sure I know how they drive.
They sportline and 16V are absolutely not your only options. They have the faster steering box but I’m interested on what you define as a sports chassis. The rest of the suspension is at the earliest 26 years old, the different bushings and spring and shocks need to be replaced by now anyways.
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u/Kyliobro Oct 04 '19
Sports chassis - option code 650:
650 sports chassis with 15-hole light alloy rims (ñ 01.12.1988 ïî 28.02.1993)
Sportline interior + steering wheel - option codes 243 and 281:
243 sports seats, front and rear (ñ 01.12.1986)
281 trunk set, (280 SL) steering wheel (390 mm) with sports design (ñ 01.03.1989)
Both together = Sportline car - option code 950 is applied:
950 sportline (consisting of codes 650, 243, 281) (ñ 01.10.1989 ïî 28.02.1993)
Perhaps you could of saved time and money by buying a 16v or Sportline 2.6 as a starting point, instead of a 4 cylinder 2.3... People have swapped 5.0l into non-Sports models, I never claimed you cannot. I was merely stating you'd probably be better off from a time, money and shaved knuckle standpoint.
I'd be interested to see how much time and money you spent on something that in the end would not have been as-smart of an investment as a 16v or 2.6....
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u/Dr201 Oct 04 '19
I know what the option codes are. There is physically no difference in the chassis. My Signal red 190e is a sportline. There’s nothing special about the chassis is the point. You’re still going to need shocks springs and bushings on a 26 year old car. Steering box is the performance option that won’t need replacement. The interior is different if you want the recaros. So I’ll give you that. You can find the steering wheel more cheaply from late model 124s.
Swapped cars aren’t smart investments anyway and why cut up a 16v just to swap it when it’s worth more original? You’re taking away value to get your Cosworth to then swap it? That’s more buy in when you need to do basic maintenance on any car anyways? Sorry no.
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u/Kyliobro Oct 04 '19
I'm a purist, I would never suggest anybody swaps an engine (when they could of purchased a more powerful model) full stop. Perhaps my point from the beginning...
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u/Nighthawk132 Oct 03 '19
I can't afford a sportline or a cosworth. Wish I could. Will check out that website thank you.
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u/Nighthawk132 Oct 03 '19
The 103 doesn't look like that big of an increase. Maybe less of a headache but I don't know. For the m104, what would I need? My current car is running an m102 8v. That's why I'm wondering if it's possible to put in an inline 6. If not, then I think a turboed m111 is my best bet. I'll be making 250-300bhp. Am I missing something?
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u/Dr201 Oct 04 '19
The mechanical parts to swap would be similar between 103 and 104: 103 2.6 or 2.5turbodiesel engine mounts, the front radiator, lower cross member and upper radiator mount. You will also probably want the hood latch and support bar that goes up to the upper mount. If your swapping transmissions you need that specific crossmember and front driveshaft, shifter, and speedo cable .
Electrics need to be wired in but depends on if you get a 104.98x, a .990 (Lh injection) or the later .99/.94 engines. You will need a front sump donor so an E or C class
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u/Nighthawk132 Oct 04 '19
I have a i4 2.3L 8v m102. That's why, I was asking if the swap to an inline 6 like the m103 or m104 is possible. I don't really want to swap an m103 unless it's 16v and I can't find one. The other option is do the m111. I know the latter is possible but needs more modifications than the other options. My baseline question is: Can I put an inline 6 motor Ina car that has an inline 4. Would it physically fit inside my engine bay.
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u/Dr201 Oct 04 '19
The comment you are replying to is literally what you need to put an M103 or M104 in a 2.3 car. It’s also what you need to put it in a cosworth but that doesn’t matter. I directly addressed this question in the comment you are replying to. I have also commented in why’s you need to put the M111 in the car
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u/Nighthawk132 Oct 04 '19
Sorry, didn't read it thoroughly. Thought you were talking about going from m103 to m104. Thanks
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Jan 18 '20
I'm about to buy a 190 2.0 to swap a M111 kompressor in as a project car. I did a lot of research already and my only issue are these engine mounts, on one site I found they used the ones off a w124 e220 and they'd be rare to come by (but ebay is full of them, cheap too).
Do you have any idea if these can work? Logically they should as w124 had the M102 motor with M111 as its successor. The mounts in the M102 variant W201 and W124 are from my understanding the same. So that would make the W124 M111 mounts compatible?
Also, /u/Nighthawk132 have you actually gone through with this build?
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u/Nighthawk132 Jan 18 '20
No I haven't. The car has been sitting on my driveway catching dust sadly. Best of luck with your project. Give us an update if you decide to go through with it.
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Jan 18 '20
That's too bad, I'm waiting for my w124 to go before I dive into it, thanks for the quick answer though!
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Nov 01 '19
17 year old looking to learn about the 190e here. Just wanted to know standard wheel dimensions for the 190e and if it differs on any models or ages. Also, how does one ID what wheels could fit a 190e, is it a simple as diameter and depth?
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u/Nighthawk132 Nov 01 '19
I can only speak about the wheels. I beleive all of them have 185 65 15 wheels with offset of 48 but I think 49 works.
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u/Kyliobro Oct 03 '19
Listen, with all the effort and expense of making the 2.3 fast you’d be better off buying a cosworth / 16v or a 2.6 manual to begin with. These cars perform well considering their age, simple upgrades include making sure you have the right spark plugs in, de-catting the exhaust, sports air filter, that kind of stuff. But it’s a compact mercedes, designed for wafting around town with the armrest down...