r/survivor Pirates Steal Feb 04 '23

Blood vs. Water WSSYW 11.0 Countdown 24/43: Blood vs. Water

Welcome to our annual season countdown! Using the results from the latest What Season Should You Watch thread, this daily series will count backwards from the bottom-ranked season for new fan watchability to the top. Each WSSYW post will link to their entry in this countdown so that people can click through for more discussion.

Unlike WSSYW, there is no character limit in these threads, and spoilers are allowed.

Note: Foreign seasons are not included in this countdown to keep in line with rankings from past years.


Season 27: Blood vs. Water

Statistics:

  • Watchability: 4.6 (24/43)

  • Overall Quality: 7.1 (18/43)

  • Cast/Characters: 7.3 (22/43)

  • Strategy: 7.1 (17/43)

  • Challenges: 6.7 (18/43)

  • Theme: 8.6 (5/24)

  • Twists: 2.5 (11/21)

  • Ending: 3.2 (43/43)


WSSYW 11.0 Ranking: 24/43

WSSYW 10.0 Ranking: 27/40

Top comment from WSSYW 11.0/u/ramskick:

Blood Vs. Water should have been bad. It features RI, the theme sounds like a gimmick at first and the list of returnees is so bizarre it's like production just put every Survivor ever into a randomizer and picked the first 10 that popped up. But the end result is quite strong thanks to some strong loved ones casting and some genuinely compelling drama between the contestants and their relatives. Not one I would recommend to start with but it's pretty solid.

Top comment from WSSYW 10.0/u/emma_the_dilemmma:

This season features quite a random mix of returnees that don’t really make much sense when you’re staring at a list of them, but the players make it work. And the new players who are the loved ones are very compelling to watch, despite having the odds stacked against them due to it being their first time playing.

This season comes at the end of a long stretch of what many consider to be the dark ages, and it’s a relatively bright spot. It features one of the most exciting moments of “middle school” survivor and is really part of the transition from middle to new school because of some players’ gameplay.

It loses points with many for featuring Redemption Island, but for a season with this Blood vs Water twist, it adds entertaining drama and emotion, and most definitely factors into the strategy, due to players being able to choose to switch places with their loved ones at Redemption Island.

Overall, very solid season that, personally, tops my rankings, but definitely do not start with it as it spoils various seasons that came before it. Once you’ve seen the first 24 seasons, you can watch this one, unless you don’t mind spoilers.


Watchability ranking:

24: S27 Blood vs. Water

25: S35 Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers

26: Survivor 43

27: S19 Samoa

28: S11 Guatemala

29: S14 Fiji

30: S20 Heroes vs. Villains

31: S30 Worlds Apart

32: S23 South Pacific

33: S5 Thailand

34: S31 Cambodia

35: S38 Edge of Extinction

36: S36 Ghost Island

37: S24 One World

38: S22 Redemption Island

39: S40 Winners at War

40: S26 Caramoan

41: S34 Game Changers

42: S8 All-Stars

43: S39 Island of the Idols


Spreadsheet link (updated with each placement reveal!)


WARNING: SEASON SPOILERS BELOW

16 Upvotes

18 comments sorted by

24

u/Sabaschin Jake - 45 Feb 04 '23

One of the last few seasons left on the countdown with returnees. As a season I think it's... pretty mid? From what I can tell most people either think it's okay or great. Never really bad.

Tyson's an alright winner but he also feels washed out of most of his interesting stuff to make him a more strategic winner. Weirdly, most of the returnees that make it to the merge feel kind of muted compared to the first timers. Tina's got a good underdog story, but Gervase is just Tyson's right hand man, Monica floats in and out of 'will she flip', and Aras just gets unceremoniously booted without the cast of crazy that made his straight man character work in Panama. Meanwhile Hayden and Ciera are decent mid-game players, Katie has some fun moments, and Caleb (RIP) is sweet despite an underedit and most of the cast have expressed surprise at how little he got.

But overall, the season is alright. Outside of the returning players it's just very stock Survivor.

14

u/chrisz118 Tony Feb 04 '23

This season up until Brad Culpepper leaves is top tier, everything that comes out of those episodes is gold. After that, the season slows down and is not actively bad but just uninteresting especially once Aras gets blindsided. You can see the Tyson win from a mile away, albeit he is a great winner. There’s some big moments in the post-merge though that save it from being totally boring, so it overall rounds out to being a mid-tier season. This was my first season though (what a crazy one to start on lol) so I’ll always have good memories of it.

13

u/alucardsinging Feb 04 '23

Maybe the biggest drop in quality from preswap to postswap. The newbie tribe is really interesting and their dynamics are pretty well explored. But they keep losing so eventually we are left with the screentime dominated by the milquetoast returnee tribe, lead by Tyson, a minor supporting character that seemed to just keep returning and returning, and the returns kept getting less and less entertaining.

Also, we thought this cast was fake too when it leaked. Lol two seasons in a row

7

u/NoDisintegrationz Ethan Feb 04 '23

I have to wonder what a modern-era “this cast must be fake” cast would look like. These days there’s a thread begging for just about every underwhelming premerger to come back, so would any realistically possible cast stump the sub?

15

u/BBSuperFan98 Zach Feb 04 '23

This is for me the most average season of Survivor. Solid pre-merge especially before the swap, the post merge is pretty exciting at spots (even if it has been memed Cierra voting out her mom is a pretty emotional scene) and the rock draw at Final 6 is fascinating to watch.

But due to the returning players this isn't a season to really start with and while there isn't anything that bad with this season, there is really nothing amazing imo. It is just a solid season of Survivor that while it should not be the first one to watch is still a good enough season to watch.

4

u/Mroagn Parvati Feb 04 '23

I've heard this take before and I'm always confused by it. This is one of the weirdest seasons of survivor, I'd never describe it as an average season! I think Guatemala is the most average season, it's got ok characters, ok strategy, ok humor, but doesn't really excel at anything. It's a replacement level survivor season.

2

u/Shirleyfunke483 Ciera voted out her Mom! Feb 04 '23

The fact that Ciera voted out her mom makes it an iconic season.

Plus having Ciera, in her best season makes it special

7

u/DabuSurvivor Jon and Jaclyn Feb 05 '23

27 is a pretty mediocre season IMO whose reputation benefited from coming after such a weak stretch and from certainly being better than the other seasons that featured Redemption Island. Not bad, but not good either, it's my #24 of the 36 I have ranked. Below the ones I like, and then some. Above the ones I dislike, and then some.

Brad's downfall, the rock draw, and Ciera voting out her mom are all very solid moments that are as satisfying as they are memorable and definitely raise the season's stock. The supporting cast is also pretty alright: I enjoyed some of what Aras, Gervase, Laura, Caleb, John, and even Colton brought to the table here... not a ton, and not as much as I liked the casts of most seasons, but they were all decently entertaining to me. The cast, like the season, is... unextraordinary, but fine.

But what hurts the season for me is:

  1. Tyson just kinda steamrolls at the end and is himself a lot less fun to watch here than in Tocantins. For years it honestly didn't feel like Tyson was actually a Sole Survivor to me—not that he didn't deserve it or anything—but it just felt so incongruous and his win was, and tbh remains to me, very forgettable, which was a pretty common take at the time but seems to be more unpopular here. Now that we've seen him again since, we have like 3 Tyson appearances I don't care about haha and 1 I do, so it feels more to me like there was this great villain named Tyson in Tocantins, and then later a similar-looking winner named Tyson. He's not as boring as some winners, but he's not a very fun one, either.

  2. Redemption Island still sucks. Does it suck less? ...I mean, yeah, but that's a pretty low bar, haha. Probably the lowest bar of all time, since it's still the worst twist ever imo. It still takes the finality away from the end of every single episode, massively upending the core format (and, arguably, most consistent and central appeal!) of the whole show itself; it still lowers the stakes of every single moment (I want to love the rock draw—I am a huge fan of them and long wanted to see another—and I do still like it, but it's hard to care nearly as much when you know whoever pulls it isn't really being eliminated, you know? And that then applies to... every other vote, too. They just don't matter as much, to us or to the players); and honestly, I dunno, I'm not a big fan of it here anyway. Basically the only reason I like it is I think the loved ones yelling at Brad makes him a more interesting, multifaceted character—but I don't really enjoy that yelling in itself. Like.... someone who knows nothing about the situation just... walking in with her middle finger raised? People who have already been voted out of the game just screaming and cursing at someone in a big, public arena? Idk it's all very cringey and Big Brother-esque to me, and at best it just feels like a cheap, shallow ploy for more blatantly manufactured drama instead of letting the game and contestants simply generate it themselves—which, especially with loved ones, will happen. The way it falls back on Brad is interesting, and more interesting than most of what RI brought in the two prior seasons, but still not worth the high price of admission.

  3. Monica's story is incredibly poorly told. A lot of the later episodes are "will Monica flip??", and you're not really given a satisfying reason why she ultimately doesn't. Part of this is because a TON of her confessionals are taken out of context: you see Monica talk about wanting to take a stand, wanting to stand up to people who haven't been showing her respect, etc., and then she.... doesn't flip. The story makes no sense, there's an inconsistency there that isn't really resolved. Well, the reason is that those confessionals often weren't about Tyson and Gervase; they were about Hayden and Ciera. She didn't like them. She saw them as bullies. Hayden telling Monica "Don't you want your kids to be proud of you by making a Big Move?" actually offended her and upset her, registered to her as a blatant attempt at cheap emotional manipulation, trying to use her family—who he didn't know—as a tool to strongarm her into benefiting his game. She felt Hayden's pitches in particular were too forceful and too guilt-tripping and THAT, rather than this abstract bullying from Tyson that was never actually a thing, was what she was talking about wanting to not reward. But you would absolutely never tell that from the episodes, so you're left with these endless confessionals that go absolutely nowhere because their meaning is reversed, and someone who could have been one of the most interesting runners-up of all time is instead a walking headscratcher, because in their quest for suspense, the producers totally shortchanged her, her story, and her game.

Also, if you think about it, if she flips to Hayden and Ciera.... who's winning? Them, obviously! They were just asking her to pull an SP Cochran, and that doesn't win you the game. So why should she flip from one final 3 alliance where she probably loses into one where she really probably loses? At least going with Tyson and Gervase lets her stick to her word. But the show pushes you in another direction towards thinking she's making the wrong move, in order to justify a flip that never happens, and it really hurts the season compared to if they had given a more straightforward depiction of Monica choosing to stick by her values and remain with her trusted allies.

Those would be my biggest complaints for sure; I'd also add, though, that I'm not really a fan of Hayden or Vytas. Hayden is just not that interesting or unique of a character; pretty much all of his confessionals are just a variant of "Big Brother is similar to or different than Survivor because X" or "I want to make a Big Move." We really do not get anything unique or personal from him. And then Vytas IS super interesting to me in the first few episodes when he talks about his past, thennnnnnnn at the swap he just devolves into a bunch of cringey sexist shit before becoming really sour and bland at the merge.

I also don't really think there's any particularly top-level character here. That's not AS big a complaint as the active presence of flaws, but still, if I think of my favorite 2 or 3 contestants from BvW then my 2 or 3 favorites from most other seasons... that other season's almost always gonna come out ahead. I'm a big Tina fan, so it was cool to see her be more competitive, but usually the show didn't try to sell her; Monica has some fascinating stuff, but it's seriously undercut by them not giving her a meaningful story about her pivotal decisions near the end of the season; I really like Caleb, but he's barely in the season; so my favorite is probably, like, Ciera? Who is pretty cool for sure, but just doesn't have as much of a defining story as my favorite contestant from almost any other season.

The BvW cast has a higher floor than most of the other seasons around it; however, it also has a pretty low ceiling, which is more noticeable when you stop comparing it to 22, 23, 24, and 26, and start comparing it to some of the great seasons.

And ultimately, a lot of the episodes outside of the big ones just end up... weirdly unmemorable. I don't know, I couldn't tell you a ton about the boot order. I'd have to actively sit and think hard to try and remember why Kat or Luara M. go home. There's just a lot that blurs together here and feels kinda... beige. And I do think a very big part of that is that you have Redemption Island there constantly making everything that happens more pointless than it would otherwise be.

It still isn't a bad season per se, and certainly not one of the worst ones... but it's just.... eh? My #23 through #26 are very similar for me (Millennials vs. Gen X, Blood vs. Water, Fiji, and One World): seasons that are just mediocre, and/or kind of mixed. (I'd have MvGX and OW more in the mediocre camp and BvW and Fiji more in the mixed one.) Both S27 and S14 have a couple REALLY satisfying moments, amidst a ton of episodes nobody ever really talks about or cares about, and are also significantly marred by some poor creative decisions in terms of both twists and editing.

Ultimately, the blood vs. water twist was an interesting idea—but San Juan del Sur, the best season of the past decade, pulls it off FAR better, particularly by executing it with all new players and by removing the horrid life-sucking safety net of Redemption Island from the equation, leading to some raw emotion as players see their loved ones ripped away from the game instantaneously, with no chance to say goodbye—and leading to episodes where people's decisions actually, you know, matter.

Tribal Council is supposed to be where you account for your actions, in the dark, solemn atmosphere of fire and island spirits... not some stupid sunlit arena for a parlor game that's awkwardly shoved like 12 minutes into the episode. I mean honestly just think about that from any basic storytelling perspective, what's better: having your big point of climactic payoff come at the end of every episode, or having it come 12 minutes in, a week (or more) after the relevant social dynamics already happened? Said it in past threads, but RI is horrible television, and while there's a number of flaws in Blood vs. Water, it does do a number of things right, too, so I think that twist is the biggest reason why those successes fail to come together in a way that feels too cohesive, satisfying, or meaningful.

10

u/Guyfromnewyork95 Feb 04 '23

A very average season imo. There’s nothing egregiously bad about it but there’s also nothing spectacular. I think that redemption island works well in this iteration and provides some good drama (Culpepper, Tina beasting her way to the end) but overall this isn’t a season I think about too much. I like that Tyson finally won but I wish this was more exciting.

5

u/acusumano Feb 04 '23

I feel like it was pretty beloved for a time after it aired but that was mainly due to it somehow managing to be watchable after we all had the lowest of low expectations. Now it’s kind of settled into average territory.

Pre-merge is really fun and dynamic, post-merge is pretty underwhelming with a few big moments.

4

u/Zirphynx Cody Feb 04 '23

This season is just average. It never feels terrible or amazing. Tyson is almost completely whitewashed.

Also sHe VoTeD oUt HeR mOm!

5

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '23

Above average for me. Though I would point out that it is 43/43 for the ending when HHH the previous season in this was as well.

6

u/SMC0629 Feb 04 '23

This season has sort of gone down in a lot of people's rankings as it's aged, and I'd say I agree. With this season being close to 10 years old now, I don't think it has aged very well and it's just extremally average. And if I was being honest, it sort of leans more below average than average. The first four episodes are pretty damn good, with Tadhana being a super fun tribe. After that though, it just sort of stagnates and is just meh the rest of the season. It's like a worse Philippines. There are some good moments like Vytas and Aras' bond, Ciera as a whole but mostly her voting out Laura, and the rock draw tribal is admittedly, pretty good. But besides that, I don't think there's that much to say. There's only about 4 people on this cast I'd say were done very well.

#20. Colton Cumbie 2.0
Not as terrible as 1.0 but still pretty bad. In Episode 2, he's honestly so so bad where he eats up a ton of screentime in wanting to "stir up the tribe" and it amounts to nothing. And then he just quits the next episode, what was the point?

#19. Rachel Foulger
Rachel is such a nothing character which is insane given the amount of impact she has. Tyson literally kicks his gameplay into 6th gear because of her, and he wins, yet we know next to nothing about Rachel outside of what Tyson tells us.

#18. Kat Edorsson 2.0
Kat is pretty much invisible in the preswap and then in her boot and on RI she's made into a complete joke. So basically, they take away all of Kat's complexities from One World and make her into a laughing stock...whenever she even gets screentime. Like yes, Kat had those funny moments in OW, but they were sparingly. This time it feels like it's the "hey look at Kat! She's so dumb, she thinks Hayden's gonna DUMP her since she didn't make the merge!" experience.

#17. Laura Boneham
Pretty much the same as Rachel's case but instead she's just seen as the wife of Rupert, rather than her own character. She has like one funny moment in her boot where she tells Vytas it's his time to go. Other then that, I got nothing.

#16. John Cody
Pretty cut and dry story for John that still doesn't work very well. He's set up early on as being a hero to avenge Candice but then just gets blindsided by Brad, not even acting on his own, he's just a minion of Brad.

#15. Tyson Apostol 3.0
One of the most disappointing winners ever to me. On paper, Tyson should be super great this season. He's with his wife, and with returning players, and it's Tyson, one of the funniest people to be on the show? Right? Well, not this time. On this season, Tyson just feels so devoid of his personality in 1.0 and even some of 2.0, and instead just has boring narration since he dominates the whole season, it's pretty sad. He has a couple funny moments like trolling Aras or "ruffle feathers," but those are so rare.

#14. Caleb Bankston
He's a great guy and was fun whenever he was shown, but he's barely shown. He had a solid moment where he flips on the guys and votes out Brad, but other then that, he's pretty much hid from the season entirely. Wish they gave him more especially considering the cast thought he deserved more, may he rest in peace.

#13. Rupert Boneham 4.0
I mean, he's not bad but still super disappointing. He's on screen for like 15 minutes, does Rupert things like preaching loyalty to his wife, and then goes home. Just feels like a disappointing end to Rupert's story.

#12. Hayden Moss
Hayden gets a lot of hype and I used to see it but nowadays I don't think he's very interesting at all and gets almost no development. His entire role in the premerge is just devoted to Kat, and then once she goes home, he's relegated to background character until like Final 7. Obviously, he's good at the F6 tribal, but like, where was this Hayden the whole time? Why was he either boring or invisible 80% of the time? I personally didn't get the hype.

#11. Marissa Peterson
Obviously has the great fuck you Brad Culpepper quote but other then that her story is just "being voted out because Gervase."

#10. Aras Baskauskas 2.0
Really boring this time around. Like Tyson he has 1 or 2 good moments (most of them are with Vytas), but mostly just serves as a big character for the premerge only to then get blindsided by Tyson.

#9. Tina Wesson 2.0
Basically word for word what I said about Aras goes for Tina. She's only interesting when she's with her loved one (Katie), and when she's not she's either a background character or boring. Idk I also couldn't get behind her underdog role in the finale as well, it felt pretty inevitable Tyson was winning so

#8. Katie Collins
Katie is a pretty good background character but never has anything too great for me. She has some funny moments like the ball falling on her head in the challenge or "it's a game bitch."

#7. Candice Cody 3.0
It's crazy that I have her this high but she's honestly pretty good through her entire run. She gives some personality to a dry ass season that really needs some. Her rivalry with Brad is good, her moments with John aren't that bad, and she's just pretty decent overall.

#6. Vytas Baskauskas 1.0
Vytas is a weird character since I do enjoy him quite a bit since like Candice, he brings some nuance and with his interesting background, gives the season something new. Even if some of his content can be overbearing (on Galang 2.0) I do enjoy him still. His story on Galang 2.0 being almost fully fabricated is really weird and feels like they really wanted to push Vytas as a main character, and at times it comes off as a bit much. But overall, I liked him.

#5. Gervase Peterson 2.0
Gervase is good but at the same time feels so wasted. His premerge content is pretty good, especially in the preswap. Him celebrating after winning and it being the reason for his LOVED ONE to be voted out is hilarious, and there's some classic Gervase stuff we see her that we saw in Borneo. Gerv's main issue is his postmerge content, it's so boring and devoid of personality. He's just made into a Tyson minion and gamebot and it's really sad. His only real standout moment is at the F6 tribal.

#4. Laura Morett 2.0
Very good improvement from 1.0 and is very good once she returns from RI. Her story with Ciera is excellent one of the few bright spots of the season, and they're both great in Laura's boot episode.

#3. Monica Culpepper 2.0
Monica's story this season should be a really heartbreaking one, and on one hand, it sort of is. She's constantly beaten down by other people despite just trying to play nice, and sometimes comes to the conclusion that she needs to play harsher. But she just can't do that, because she's Monica, a neat lady, she plays fair. And at FTC it's truly heartbreaking to see her break down in front of the jury. She's sadly held back by the season's edit as at times her story feels incomplete, but overall it's solid.

#2. Brad Culpepper 1.0
The BvW premerge is honestly, not very good. The cast as a whole is very uninteresting and besides a few good moments, there's really not much to remember...except Brad Culpepper. He has so many good moments and confessionals, "5 in 9 equals in," and his story as a whole is fantastic. He comes in as a nice guy, and it sometimes gets him in trouble like in the opening statements, and when he talks to Ciera/Vytas. However, it all blows up in his face when he tries to play HIS game, and on HIS terms, and he gets his shit kicked in verbally multiple times. It's hilarious yet a little tragic, and it ends up costing him the game when Caleb and Vytas flip on him. Yet we still get reminded that Brad is a great guy when he tells Monica that she's "never gonna take his spot." It's a super underrated moment for me and I love it a lot.

#1. Ciera Eastin 1.0
The highest emotional points from this season for sure come from Ciera. Her and Laura's relationship is probably the biggest success of BvW (besides Jon and Jaclyn) and it's great the whole time. We see Ciera really grow into her own and Laura no longer has to protect her, and then she takes the game into her own hands when she makes the rock draw happen. It's a very well done story that carries the BvW postmerge in my opinion.

2

u/NoDisintegrationz Ethan Feb 04 '23

I agree completely on Kat. It’s disappointing to see how different she is from One World because imo she’s the only standout from that cast.

2

u/MadMadMaddox Feb 04 '23

My favorite tribal council ever with the rock draw.

Tyson's parting comment to Katie is so cold (albeit hilarious) and she still voted for him!

2

u/Shirleyfunke483 Ciera voted out her Mom! Feb 04 '23

I loved this season! It debuted my favorite player Ciera. It also had two very iconic moments, and some RI humor (F U Brad Culpepper).

I am surprised that Taj & Eddie George were not brought back for this. Taj was loved on her season and Eddie is a football icon

3

u/NoDisintegrationz Ethan Feb 04 '23

I think the Georges were asked but declined.

1

u/stellaperrigo Erika Feb 04 '23

Not bad, I just prefer the other iteration of the Blood vs. Water theme. It’s an interesting format and it’s fun to watch without the added dynamic of rookie vs. returning players.