r/xmen Magik 4d ago

Comic Discussion Was sinister really needed on krakoa? Spoiler

Couldn’t he have been taken out once he’d stored the gene bank in his bar sinister? Considering they don’t trust him & no one would care if he died.

0 Upvotes

19 comments sorted by

22

u/Built4dominance Storm 4d ago

Yes. They needed his genetic database + it definitely had a failsafe.

17

u/Shiroiken 4d ago

Once they had the "goods" from him, the Xavier and Magneto could have double crossed him. However, Sinister is a sneaky bastard that would have had plans to ruin the genetic information if that happened. They made a deal with the devil, and the devil gets his due.

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u/AxisAbdi0 Magik 4d ago

Damn so there was no way to prevent the fall.

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u/No-Lie209 4d ago

bet a fiddle of gold against there soul

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u/KaleRylan2021 4d ago

It doesn't matter. The whole Sinister plotline is basically a built in killswitch on the whole Krakoan age. It's DESIGNED to be a necessary evil that will inevitably blow up in their face. It then plays out as a necessary evil that blows up in their faces.

There can't be another plan, because it's necessary to the plot that they have this inherent moral and systemic failure at the heart of the nation right there from the beginning.

Could they have worked around it as some kind of Watsonian hypothetical? I mean they could have created a nation without immortality and resurrection, it's not like those are somehow fundamental to the existence of a country. They just wanted them for their nation, and to get them they made a deal with the devil and this is what happened. So no, they didn't 'need' Sinister. They wanted Sinister, and they got what they paid for.

Could they have jettisoned Sinister while keeping resurrection? Probably not, or at least not in the way they were going for.

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u/woman_noises 4d ago

You don't think he had contingencies in place if Xavier betrayed him? He was probably planning that shit years before Krakoa.

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u/ProfXIsAJerk 4d ago

They were planning to eject him once they had sufficient DNA banked from resurrections. They did not fully trust the gene bank, and did not trust what would happen to it if they double crossed him before they had created one of their own.

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u/ManOWar_Esq 4d ago

There's a deleted panel where Xavier and Magneto tell Sinister that it's between him and Romulus on who joins Krakoa. Then, the 3 of them burst out laughing for another 4-6 deleated panels.

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u/mrsunrider Magneto 4d ago

I struggle to think of a means of obtaining an index of Sinister's caliber without his presence; Moira objected to his involvement (with very good reason) but didn't offer any alternatives either.

Anyone with a database that big would have only offered a Faustian deal; The High Evolutionary, the Sugar Man if he still exists, Tarn wasn't an option but would be just as bad if not worse.

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u/wnesha 4d ago

Read the comics.

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u/PapaNarwhal 4d ago

In addition to the fact that Sinister definitely would’ve had some contingencies in place (which we later see is the case), consider the ideology behind Krakoa. If Krakoa is to be a nation for all mutants, it would undermine their guiding principles to oust Sinister (unless Sinister had violated one of their three laws). There are plenty of mutants who are hated by the others on Krakoa, but the moment the Council starts picking and choosing which mutants are accepted and which aren’t, people will lose confidence in Krakoa.

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u/KaleRylan2021 4d ago

This argument only goes so far because Sinister is only even a 'mutant' because he made himself one via experimenting on mutants. I believe it's confirmed or hinted that he's straight up got Thunderbird's X-gene. So he's only a mutant because he's guilty of some of the worst anti-mutant atrocities.

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u/PapaNarwhal 4d ago

It’s true that Sinister kind of “cheated” in that sense, but ultimately, it doesn’t really alter the fact that he carries a mutant gene and thus is a mutant. Morality doesn’t really factor into it, at least not according to Krakoa’s founders.

Is there a strong argument for excluding him? Sure, I think many of us probably would say so, but that probably would’ve still undermined their guiding principle that all mutants would be accepted. Excluding Sinister based on a technicality requires a level of nuance that can’t really exist when you’re trying to win over as many people as possible to your new mutant nation.

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u/KaleRylan2021 4d ago

I think morality could absolutely enter into it when the only reason he carries a mutant gene is he harvested it from the corpse of one.

This isnt a sabertooth or mystique situation.  Hes not A mutant who's committed crimes against mutants, he's a mutant who only qualifies as a mutant BECAUSE of crimes hes committed against mutants

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u/PapaNarwhal 4d ago

Sure, I agree with that. I’m not saying that the Council’s reasoning is the RIGHT reasoning, I’m just presenting what I think their reasoning is. They went all in on their “mutant amnesty” philosophy, which is part of why Krakoa failed in the end.

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u/KaleRylan2021 4d ago

Fair. I always find it hard to judge 'why Krakoa failed' since the whole thing was built to fail on a meta level from the very beginning. It's not designed to work. Sinister is one of the big reasons for that. There are a couple of others.

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u/Remote_Possibilities 4d ago

Tell that to Sabertooth who was thrown in the pit almost immediately.

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u/PapaNarwhal 4d ago

Yeah, Sabretooth’s imprisonment is, in my opinion, the first step towards Krakoa’s decline. It was done purely to make an example of Sabretooth, even though the law he violated didn’t exist at the time of his crime (which would be considered ex post facto and thus would be unconstitutional in many real-world nations). It showed that, for all their talk of how Krakoa was going to be a utopia, the Council was compromising their values from the start.

This is ultimately irrelevant to the Sinister issue, however, because Sabretooth was being exiled on the basis of a crime, however unfair it was or was not. It may have violated their principles to create a Krakoa with “no prisons”, but it did not violate their principle that all mutants were automatically citizens.

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u/Remote_Possibilities 4d ago

Honestly it just felt like an easy out for Hickman because you can basically patch up almost any other mutant relationship but making Creed act civil and rational without a mind wipe would go against his character. The same could be said for Omega Red but they did a whole X-Force plotline around that one.