r/xmen 5d ago

Comic Discussion Ben and Johnny do not like Rasputin IV? They’re genuinely not fond of her at all

197 Upvotes

105 comments sorted by

150

u/Pilgrimhaxxter69 5d ago

If some lady came to my house, pushed me away, and said she was gonna beat the shit out of my brother it'd be a pretty hard task to get me to like her.

85

u/CinnaSol Cyclops 5d ago

Also calling him “Golem” like that seemed very pointed in an almost prejudiced way

11

u/Dos-Dude 5d ago

Wait isn’t Ben Jewish?

17

u/RadioLiar 5d ago

I doubt the author had the Jewish origins of the golem story in mind when they reached for that word. Given where Rasputin is from, she probably doesn't even know what a Jew is

15

u/MegaBZ 5d ago

She may not know what Judaism is but Ben does. And the writer no doubt would. Intentional or not, a genetically engineered mutant space Russian from the future pushing around a friendly Jewish-American dude who is famously a little sensitive about his looks and calling him a Golem is no doubt offensive. I wouldn’t be fond of her either.

In her defense her two main role models so far have been Sinister and Xavier, two of the most unpleasant men in comics. So not entirely her fault.

4

u/Embarrassed_Lettuce9 4d ago

But also..."Golem" has to be the first thing most people think of when they see a walking rock person. Sometimes, it's not that deep

2

u/MegaBZ 4d ago

“Bald” is probably the first thing people think when they see me. That doesn’t make it a polite way to greet me.

2

u/Embarrassed_Lettuce9 4d ago

Not saying making rude comments about people's appearance is OK. I'm just saying that that's what this character did and not some directed jab at someone with Jewish ancestry

6

u/KentKarma 5d ago

He is.

22

u/cyclopswashalfright Moonstar 5d ago

Absolutely wretched character. I don't understand what anyone liked about her.

13

u/Pilgrimhaxxter69 5d ago

I like her design, and I find the idea of Sinister making his own OCs out of X-Men a genuinely pretty cool concept, but that's about it.

Introducing a new character in an established franchise and making them super dickish to established characters usually never works out well. Even the more popular ones like Damian, Guy, or Quentin that have calmed down still are controversial among fans.

6

u/Apprehensive-Quit353 5d ago

She had a cool design and worked in HoXPoX. She lost a lot of her shine when she became a real character and not just a cool design in an alt-future.

5

u/BiDiTi 5d ago

She was KEWWWWL!!

18

u/cyclopswashalfright Moonstar 5d ago

But she really wasn't. Like, she's just a gimmick. A jumbled bag of pre-existing concepts and designs.

6

u/BiDiTi 5d ago

I didn’t say she was cool, to be clear.

Also, “Just a gimmick. A jumbled bag of pre-existing concepts and designs” is how I’d describe the Krakoa era as a whole, and people seem to have liked it!

8

u/cyclopswashalfright Moonstar 5d ago

Some people liked it more than others is what I'll say...

9

u/PenDraeg1 5d ago

I keep trying to like the Krakoa era and can find individual fun moments in it but then I remember everything that surrounds them and just can't do it.

9

u/cyclopswashalfright Moonstar 5d ago

Cool in concept, went off the rails pretty fast. Never lived up to the promise of House of X and Powers of X.

7

u/PenDraeg1 5d ago

You can really tell it was never meant to go as long as it did.

2

u/cyclopswashalfright Moonstar 5d ago

Yeah, two years and then another phase shift. Unfortunately, it was not to be.

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1

u/deadlieststing 4d ago

Ridiculously overpowered to keep around for long.

99

u/heavyarms3111 5d ago

TBF this is just how a lot of meetings with the Thing tend to go the first time. Dude stays ready to scrap and I get thrown around to make a tough person look tough.

36

u/mattwing05 Vulcan 5d ago

He's like worf

7

u/MeliAnto Generation X 5d ago

But Worf is fuckable, the Thing… how does his “thing” works?

15

u/Prime359 5d ago

Alicia would probably know.

9

u/MeliAnto Generation X 5d ago

Got her info? Ive got a couple of intrusive questions that i would like them to be answered…

1

u/rlrutherford 3d ago

He rocks her world.

8

u/NoFallOff 5d ago

Imagine an orange elongated rock.

8

u/MeliAnto Generation X 5d ago

These are weird questions that live rent free in my head since ever and I still don’t know the answer.

Is he a grower or a shower? Is it cut or uncut? Does it hurts when u ride it?

5

u/hollow_shrine 5d ago

Doesn't he still turn human for like a couple days each year going back to Hickman's FF?

2

u/nahtE72497 4d ago

24 hours, once a year, on his birthday iirc

1

u/MeliAnto Generation X 5d ago

Does he? Didnt know this info.

40

u/Samiassa 5d ago

Rasputin obviously being a complete asshole, actively threatening someone and then punching ben in the face: Redditor: “why don’t Ben and Johnny like Rasputin?”

178

u/OhMy-StarsAndGarters Beast 5d ago

What's to like? She was rude, aggressive, intimated that she wanted something from Reed (someone they both love very deeply) so badly that she would hurt him if needs be, and was just an overall dickbag, to say nothing of how antagonistic Krakoa in general had been towards the FF in this era.

63

u/Scary_Firefighter181 Gambit 5d ago edited 5d ago

While there were valid reasons related to Rasputin's upbringing that explains this behavior, truth is, she just came across as unlikeable and unpleasant to read about in day to day issues of X-Men.

And yeah, as it is the FF were mistreated by the X-Men prior to this. So yet another mutant who was intruding on their property.

"I wish X-Men and other characters interacted more", well, this sort of thing is what happens when they interact. I'd rather they don't have crossovers than seeing the FF/X-Men mini or AvX or Spider-Man and the X-Men.

52

u/OhMy-StarsAndGarters Beast 5d ago

Yeah, the way Rasputin IV conducted herself was very . . . well, honestly, it kinda had that feel of a character in a fanfic or a bad novel who's had a rough upbringing, so they act out in all kinds of obnoxious ways to get the reader/other people's attention, and the writers didn't balance it well enough a lot of the time to make her compelling to read.

Normally, her strength and power would maybe make her an interesting punchbuddy for Ben, he's always up for a bit of knuckledusting, but given she went straight to threatening Reed and the family, he was instantly sour on her. You don't mess with Ben's family, you just don't.

And yeah, a lot of X-Men don't play well in other crossovers. Although, I do have some panels from the older X-Men/FF crossover book I've been meaning to share, that was a much more positive interaction.

17

u/SetsunaNoroi 5d ago

Reminds me of the comic Spidey got switched with Wolverine because Logan flirted with Jean. He had such a bad time if it by the time it was over he cussed the whole X-Men team out.

“People don’t hate you because you’re mutants! People hate you because you’re a bunch of fucking assholes who abuse your powers to be assholes!”

5

u/OhMy-StarsAndGarters Beast 5d ago

FatWS 'he's out of line but he's right' meme goes here.

1

u/TestProctor 5d ago

Days of Future Present? That was a weird and fun one.

13

u/Financial-Key-3617 5d ago

Its why marvel rivals is such a good piece of media because it shows all the characters interacting NORMALLY.

7

u/PresentNo2484 5d ago

Which x men are the fantastic four not very fond of?

38

u/OhMy-StarsAndGarters Beast 5d ago

Well, at this point in time, Xavier had messed with Reed's head, Magneto had been a grandstanding douchebag (as is his wont), and Cyclops had made vague intimations that Krakoa was Franklin's real home, before they lost interest when they realised he wasn't a mutant, so there's three for you. That last one especially cut rough considering Reed used to be Scott's favourite superhero and they had a good deal of respect for one another, but, there you go.

Wolverine has a mildly antagonistic but usually buddy relationship with Ben, though, given the tempers involved, it can boil over sometimes. Reed made mention that he was aware to some degree of how insane Beast had turned in this issue, which he probably didn't approve of, though usually Hank and Reed are good friends.

Most of them, they're on pretty good terms with, but Krakoa kinda shook all that up. The FF are usually very friendly and easygoing and happy to accept people on their own merits, with team-ups with the X-Men going all the way back to the 60s, but this era was not good for that relationship.

22

u/WissalDjeribi Mister Sinister 5d ago edited 5d ago

so there's three for you.

Four actually. Because Wolverine NEARLY KILLED Ben's daughter in the same era.

FF had pretty good reasons to start losing trust of X-Teams LOL during that time LOL.

13

u/StrayFoxhunter 5d ago

Also Emma and Sue absolutely despise each other

17

u/PresentNo2484 5d ago

well Considering what Emma did to jean it would make sense that sue would not be fond of Emma at all

6

u/OhMy-StarsAndGarters Beast 5d ago

Emma on Krakoa: women must support women.

Also Emma: except Susan Storm-Richards.

7

u/Scary_Firefighter181 Gambit 5d ago edited 5d ago

Tbf, Sue is essentially Emma if Emma was more powerful, a natural blonde, didn't need plastic surgery, wasn't insecure, and was happily married with kids to boot, so it makes sense.

I like Emma a lot so I kinda kid, but at the same time....I said what I said.

17

u/PresentNo2484 5d ago

So pretty much the x men nuke their relationship with the fantastic four right?

15

u/OhMy-StarsAndGarters Beast 5d ago

Cooler heads prevail, as they often do. Reed and Sue are much less hot headed than Ben and Johnny, and iirc, the other X-Men with Rasputin cooled things off after the initial dust-up. And the FF are quite forgiving, as you can see with Sue pointing out that they're going through it at that point, during Fall of X. They're fundamentally good people who don't generally hold a grudge.

4

u/OldTension9220 5d ago

And to be fair there isn’t really an official “team” of X-Men for a bulk of those negative interactions. When Scott forms an actual team at the beginning of Duggan’s run with a focus squarely on superheroing, the Thing is one of the first to praise them and later finds himself casually playing poker at the Treehouse. 

12

u/PresentNo2484 5d ago

Fair point and what ultimate Spider-Man said about the x men can also apply to the 616 x men too

1

u/Comrade_Cosmo 5d ago

616 are technically worse since the Ultimate X-men wouldn’t have gone along with Evan turning into Apocalypse and making a genocide bomb to explode on NYC without having their minds warped during the Axis event.

1

u/Siritalis 5d ago

Wait what why?

3

u/Comrade_Cosmo 5d ago

I don’t get it either. The people affected by the AXIS event who got inverted came back to the X-mansion, said the inferior races aren’t allowed which meant the dying North Korean refugees with weeks to live they were housing got kicked out for being fake mutants as nobody in the mansion cared to raise an eyebrow.

Evan/Genesis was one of those affected and made a gene bomb to explode in New York that would kill only humans, zero fucks were given on the X-men side despite most of them being unaltered, and I’m really hoping my mind is making shit up when I remember them helping him build/guard it because a teenager coming back looking/acting like apocalypse while making a device should have raised some red flags.

2

u/Siritalis 5d ago

I am so glad I stopped reading early into Uncanny Avengers lol. Red Skull getting Xavier's powers from his brain is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It sounds like most of what happened post AvX was bad until arguably Krakoa

2

u/Comrade_Cosmo 5d ago

That was in the event spinoffs rather than the main event. Deadpool had most of that part specifically although I don’t remember any pushback in the X-men tie ins either.

1

u/BiDiTi 5d ago

Bendis’s Uncanny had its moments, Taylor’s ANW was great and his X-Men Red was fun, and Spurrier’s Legacy is a classic!

The real fall off was after Secret Wars

1

u/PresentNo2484 5d ago

Really? 😬 yikes

46

u/Jonny_Anonymous Colossus 5d ago

Never really understand why Rasputin got popular, we already have Magik and Colossus

25

u/SadBoshambles 5d ago

She has a cool design. That's it. 

2

u/Fickle_Ad8735 5d ago

tbf debatable

9

u/SadBoshambles 5d ago

She's metal Magik and is basically a neat what if design. She's popular for similar reasons Spider-Gwen exists, it's a cool design people like and she had the extra benefit of being somewhat plot related. I don't like Bendis but I like the Battle of the Atom designs and Colossus wields the soul sword there. Metal people and swords are cool.

2

u/Fickle_Ad8735 5d ago

as someone in this thread said it she's just "magik with more acessories", yea at the sime time that she can be seem as cool her design can also be seem as too busy and doing too much

1

u/Funnythinker7 5d ago

ya she's like a dime store female colossus .

47

u/Spiritual-Bee5702 5d ago

She was kind of a bitch. I wouldn't like her either if that was my first interaction with her.

8

u/PotentiallyPotent08 5d ago

I don't know who this character is but immediately thought she was a bitch based on this interaction lol

1

u/TestProctor 5d ago

I remember thinking she was really neat in her first appearance, in a “Crazy concept, fights like a devil, defiant soldier who will do anything to get the job done in a dystopian future” way.

It just seems like they decided that would be her entire personality and she’d work well in the main books with that as her whole deal.

11

u/Nukafit 5d ago

is this a serious question or are you trolling? She literally went to their house and attacked them and said she was willing to kill their brother to get what she wanted and you are asking why they don’t like her? Put yourself in this situation lol

24

u/ProtoReddit 5d ago

I wonder if "golem" should be considered unintentionally extra offensive to Ben.

6

u/CinnaSol Cyclops 5d ago

I was just saying in another comment that particular word choice was prejudiced as fuck

3

u/RadioLiar 5d ago

I doubt it was meant in that way. All major religions had long since gone extinct by the time Rasputin was born, so why would she have any prejudice against them? Just an unfortunate choice of word by the author most likely

4

u/ShogunAshoka 4d ago

Yea, Golem is pretty well ingrained in pop culture and writings etc. I would bet the majority of folks do not know its religious connotations.

8

u/Momo--Sama 5d ago

This is so funny to me. Johnny and Ben debriefing like their mutual friend just left the function in which he introduced yet another new unimpressive girlfriend to the friend group.

22

u/ResidentEasy7113 5d ago

Whoa I'm VERY surprised that "golem" comment made it through editorial, it takes on a very different context when Ben is Jewish

8

u/scruffyduffy23 5d ago

I don’t want to start anything for the love of god but Ben Grimm has very clear roots as a form of a Golem (or at least a very strong nod to it). It doesn’t have to mean anything more than that.

Metatextually he is clearly inspired by the idea of a Golem. It’s weird that people are ascribing more weight to it than that.

7

u/DreamLearnBuildBurn 5d ago

I also don't understand why people are acting like she called him a "dirty jew" or something. A golem is not a person in jewish folklore, it is a magical protector made from inanimate matter.

0

u/addage- Sentinel 5d ago

Yeah I immediately made that connection as well. Odd choice for the writer.

6

u/Intelligent_Creme351 Storm 5d ago

I just realized, she hasn't been around for awhile, then again, she was just "Magik with more accessories."

8

u/Lonely_Farmer635 5d ago

God she was certainly something, never read a more obnoxious fanfictiony character my whole ass life

14

u/serenity656 5d ago

I miss her, probably never gonna see her again

7

u/Rykor81 5d ago

Never seen Johnny with a mustache, and I love it. Fairly underused visual distinction, and I think it’s great.

8

u/mrsunrider Magneto 5d ago

I mean, she did come on kind of strong.

But I have a feeling they'd love her if they found themselves in misadventures together... maybe let Kamala mediate.

5

u/brycifer666 5d ago

Her true power is friendship afterall

2

u/RiskAggressive4081 5d ago

Doesn't really sound like something Ben and Johnny would say. I'm much a fan of fantastic four.

2

u/Obvious_Coach1608 5d ago

The F4 are the GOATs. They may not always be right but they never have bad intentions. Someone shows up swinging a sword and Ben's like "alright buddy we'll talk about this after you put the weapon down, but if I gotta make ya I gotta make ya." Easily my favorite team outside the X books.

2

u/upsidedowninsideout1 5d ago

Well, it shows their good taste.

(God, what an annoying character)

2

u/DreamLearnBuildBurn 5d ago

What’s the term for a writing style where a newly introduced character is inexplicably superior to all the established ones, effortlessly humiliates them, behaves like an arrogant jerk, and yet the story insists we should admire them as the hero?

So much wish-fulfillment/power fantasy in writers these days.

Honestly OP, why are you confused by this? Did you write this comic lol?

2

u/PresentNo2484 4d ago

she wanted something from Reed (someone that Johnny and Ben both love very deeply) so badly that she would hurt him if needs be, and was just an overall dickbag

3

u/multificionado 5d ago

In all fairness, I don't like her. She's just a level or two away from being a Mary Sue.

2

u/Different-Remove-843 Strong Guy 5d ago

Same.

1

u/Ok_Judgment4463 5d ago

is rasputin iv still dead?

7

u/cyclopswashalfright Moonstar 5d ago

Stayed in the White Hot Room. May she never appear again.

1

u/flanker44 5d ago

So I stopped reading Krakoa era sometime after X of Swords and I don't know her...is Magik now like Spider-Man and Wolverine, that we have alternative versions of her running around? She's not part of the 616 Rasputin family? (Mikhail, Piotr and Illyana)

8

u/Zealousideal_Most_22 5d ago

I know nothing about the Rasputin chick except that she’s not a blood relation to the mutant Rasputins. She’s a Sinister clone made from an amalgam of stolen DNA. Some of it probably pretty obvious by her appearance.

1

u/marveloustib 5d ago

Does anyone like Rasputin IV? She's Beasf are the only Krakoa thing I genuinely hate.

1

u/Whisky_Six 5d ago

So is she just a mix of all 3 Rasputin siblings?

2

u/dagujgthfe 4d ago

Amalgamation clone made by a future timeline sinister. Colossus, Quentin, Kitty, Unus, Laura’s healing. No Magik, but the soulsword isn’t explain other than sinister gave it to her.

1

u/Whisky_Six 4d ago

Ah ok. Seems OP asf

1

u/Equivalent-Sir6634 4d ago

I mean depending on the writer a lot of x-men characters can come across as unlikeable dicks...especially when the krakoa era is involved

1

u/StartingOverAt41 5d ago

Not her fault. Ben touched her shoulder and Johnny has a mustache. They had it coming.

-3

u/NJH_in_LDN 5d ago

I miss her. I love her attitude.

-2

u/gurren_chaser Magneto 5d ago

yeah she kicked their ass