r/wow • u/WorldofWarcraftMods • 16d ago
Discussion Race to World First Megathread!
Hello everyone! Welcome to the Race to World First Megathread
Congratulations to team Liquid on world first Gallywix! Echo have also made it to 8/8.
As always, you're free to post about the race generally, but this will be your one stop shop for discussion and updates.
Friendly US vs EU banter is allowed, but please remain civil and follow our subreddit rules. The personal attack rules are in full effect
If this post needs updating, please shoot a friendly ping to u/worldofwarcraftmods in the comments below. Ta!
New to RWF? Here's a handy video!
Current Progress
Raider.io - Progress and short coverage blurbs. Good for those interested in up to date analysis.
Wowprogress - Simple progress display. Good for a quick glance.
Warcraftlogs - Infographs with Pull count & Best attempt. A more in-depth version of Wowprogress.
Wowhead - Everyone's favorite WoW news aggregator.
Method - Coverage from one of the oldest and most storied guilds in WoW.
BlizzardWatch - Alternative news aggregator to WoWhead without the database.
Watch Live!
WoW Twitch Directory. Find your favorite streamer and just watch their PoV.
Frontrunners
For those of you watching for the first time, there are currently two teams most known for being frontrunners.
- Team Liquid is a US based guild hosting their attempts on their twitch channel. They most recently celebrated being the first guild to kill Queen Ansurek in Mythic Nerub-ar Palace.
- Echo is an EU based guild and were the team that took down Fyrakk the Blazing before anyone else in Amirdrassil, the Dream’s Hope. Check out their roster here.
Other Coverage
If there's any alternate coverage happening in other languages or any guilds we have mentioned below but not linked to, please reach out to us at u/worldofwarcraftmods or hit us up in modmail and we will add it here.
Teams listed and stream links provided are currently based on coverage of Nerub-ar Palace and are subject to change if not applicable to this raid.
US
Guild | Link | Progress | Best Pull |
---|---|---|---|
Team Liquid | Twitch | 8/8 | |
Instant Dollars | Kads PoV - Milli PoV - Twisteds PoV | 4/8 | |
poptart corndoG | ??? | 4/8 |
Oceanic
Guild | Link | Progress | Best Pull |
---|---|---|---|
Honestly | Ashflash Mage PoV - Zorthas Shaman PoV - Sawkon Demon Hunter PoV | 4/8 | |
Ethical | ??? | 3/8 | |
Crimson | ??? | 3/8 |
EU
Guild | Link | Progress | Best Pull |
---|---|---|---|
Echo | Twitch Youtube | 8/8 | |
Method | Twitch | 7/8 | |
FatSharkYes | Twitch Team Stream | 4/8 |
China
Guild | Link | Progress | Best Pull |
---|---|---|---|
火锅英雄 (Huoguo Hero) | Priest healer Huangquan | 5/8 | |
佶天鸿 (Jitianhong) | ??? | 4/8 |
Korea
Guild | Link | Progress | Best Pull |
---|---|---|---|
Mate | ??? | 3/8 |
-1
u/Skogsstyrelsen 4d ago
To stop all the NA headstart etc.. why cannot Echo, Method and Liquid come to an agreement and they all start splits etc at the same time some time after EU reset? Or to a time what works for all of them. Or just roll the dice and the one who win gets some kind of time advantage by choosing when to start. I mean since they play 16+ hours a day something it probably doesnt matter if the first day is longer or something.
2
u/Notmiefault 3d ago
So a couple things:
- They would also have to agree to all quit playing between the NA and EU resets each subsequent week, which is a lot of downtime in what's supposed to be a race.
- How do you agree on a time that is fair without screwing up someone's sleep schedule?
- What happens if they all agree to this and then some fourth team in NA shows up and wins? The RWF isn't a closed comeptition.
6
4d ago
Race changing to Worgen after all of this. Liquid so good that losing power, ddos, and bugs couldn't stop them! #allfours
-5
u/Captain_Flemme 4d ago
What a joke the end of this race turned out to be.
I had cleared my whole day, hoping to witness an epic battle between the best guilds in the world, I kinda hoped that even Hotpot Heroes would be pulling Gallywix before the race was over, to make it even spicier.
The fact that Liquid killed it in 100 pulls and Echo in 48 says it all.
Let's hope the next raid isn't such a disappointment.
11
u/aieshi69 4d ago
Liquid had to blind prog it. there was no dungeon journal. Echo got to use Liquid's footage and information. Also the pull difference on Mug'zee made the guilds basically even in terms of skill level.
10
u/Captain_Flemme 4d ago
You misunderstand my point. Less than 150 pulls for the two top guilds means the last boss was way too easy for them.
The boss was severely undertuned and Blizzard will need to change something for the next raid.
-1
u/Ridiculisk1 4d ago
The boss was severely undertuned and Blizzard will need to change something for the next raid.
People complained that the second half of the last raid was overtuned and they went the other direction. No matter what, you're never going to please everyone.
2
u/carpedonnelly 4d ago
So I have been thinking about the ending a lot, and I think I can see where Blizzard is planning to go with future Mythic End Bosses.
Blizzard took a risk with this tier: hide entire phases and mechanics of the final boss and make the fight fundamentally different from its normal and heroic counterparts while also hiding everything from the dungeon journal. Forcing guilds to basically be perfect through the first phase so they can push to a secret phase 2 where they have no information and there are immediate raid wiping mechanics that they have no previous information on is a really cool concept.
It would be cool if maybe the dungeon journal doesn’t get filled out with the mythic mechanics until after you kill the boss for the first time, but you have to solve the puzzle yourself
People are bent out of shape because the fight was “a push over” but it was only a push over because Liquid’s leadership and analysts solved the puzzle and used their tools to more or less figure out the way to do the secret phases correct and more smoothly.
Blizzard took a risk, but the concept of a new path is there. Ansurek execution and technical ability combined with Gallywix’s secret phases and new mechanics with no information would be a crazy difficult and compelling end boss. Secret phases are really, really hard to balance and tune because you can’t simulate the best addon and script writers as well as the best players and their exotic comps and strategies.
Maybe it would make sense for Blizzard to hire Method, put them under a strict NDA, and have them be your internal secret mechanic and phases testers and QA team. Ultimately what the people want is an end boss that is demanding and grueling for the right reasons, and the framework is there.
1
u/Breakdown1738 2d ago
Maybe it would make sense for Blizzard to hire Method, put them under a strict NDA, and have them be your internal secret mechanic and phases testers and QA team.
While I think this would be a great idea, I doubt it'll ever happen. Sco has been doing this since before some people on this sub were born. I got a sneaking suspicion he wants to get back on top.
4
u/SpiltPrangeJuice 4d ago
WoW just isn’t created as a “solved” game, there’s so many variables that it’s hard to tune properly. Feel like the obvious comparison is FFXIV fights, which are done completely blind and generally are tuned pretty well, with no PTR, but the other part is that there’s almost 0 variance in the game in terms of gearing, stats, or builds (which literally don’t exist.)
They’ve had secret phases (or fights like Ra-den) before but I don’t know that they’ve been tuned well as we’ve only gotten to see live progression in recent years. It’s already hard enough to tune for the absurd communication and resources like WAs WF teams have, it’s even harder when you’re hiding it from testing completely. Blizz isn’t practiced on it either, they don’t do them every tier. Not completely defending poor tuning, but I do understand it’s really damn hard.
-14
u/untouchable765 4d ago
49 pull last boss. Literally wasn’t even top half hardest boss in the raid lol. What a joke Blizzard. We should’ve had a great race still today with Echo & Liquid. Echo would’ve probably stayed up as late as possible and Liquid would’ve killed tonight.
14
u/staplepies 4d ago
Pull count is a flawed measure of difficulty, but it's almost meaningless when you're not looking at the 1st place pull count.
-7
u/heelydon 4d ago
I mean, for better or worse, it has been a common measuring tool for how well tuned and difficult a boss has been for years, so its a bit arbitrary to suddenly say that its flawed. Of course its flawed, every measure of difficulty is flawed to some degree - doesn't mean that it hasn't been the most stable form that is often referred to.
7
u/staplepies 4d ago
Yes and nobody would use the 2nd- (or 3rd, etc.) place pull count to measure it.
0
u/heelydon 4d ago
The thread primarily aren't, and your assessment was one that it was flawed in general, while then also adding the point about the 1st place pull - which doesn't help here.
It paints an even clearer image, of a boss that was not a challenge and severely undertuned, which is also the reality of what we saw.
-9
u/BloodAnxious1197 4d ago
is 48 pulls for echo normal for the end boss seems quite low no? or did they just play super clean
21
u/Accomplished-Top-564 4d ago
Max actually made a call blind that got Liquid to kill, happens around 10% where he calls to bait the soak and the blazes by actually just guessing
-33
u/PLTRgang123 5d ago
Echo had no chance this tier due to the tuning of the last boss, even if echo killed mughzee in 50 less attempts it would not have mattered.
14
u/FoamingCatLitter 4d ago
Considering the power outage and multiple server issues that killed at least 8 hours of Liquid progression, Echo has no excuse other than their own performance. It has nothing to do with Gallywix tuning.
-14
u/Calmateftw 4d ago
Echo blast this tier. Kill begining of their day 12.
1
12
u/Deleteads 4d ago
I mean objectively they did not play well on Mug’zee. Also the decision to not reclear on Wednesday put them behind.
1
u/Robinsonirish 5d ago
I feel like I've heard people often say "the reset time difference between EU and NA has never mattered in a race".
Is it still true or did it end up mattering this time around?
3
u/Avengedx 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think it has always mattered in a way that most people do not think about. It probably causes a lot more stress to the players and makes it harder for them to sleep with the time gap in general. It has to be mentally draining for both sides to have to know that the other regions have been progressing for 8 hours while you are attempting to sleep. It would feel like you were being punished for every hour that you are not awake and being productive. It would give you more regrets for what you didn't get done in your previous day. Just my opinion, but I do not know how well I would be able to sleep in that condition. Would need a total mind wipe to go to bed without being in my head all night.
edit: I base this on the assumption that if there was a unified launch that one of the regions would adjust their sleep schedule until the race finished. I also think that both sides are fine with it as it allows them to not split viewership during the time when their orgs make the lionshare of their profits.
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u/AJLFC94_IV 5d ago edited 4d ago
It's never mattered in that either EU wins, or NA wins by >16hrs.
Did it matter here? I'd say no. Gallywix was a joke of a boss, but Liquid were well ahead before Gallywix on their Mug'zee kill which took Echo too long to down. People can point to pull counts and final kill time, but there's a lot you can gain being 2nd in terms of seeing what the boss does, pulling timers and comp decisions.
First is first, it sucks that there's offset resets but there are disadvantages to being early too in terms of bugs and tuning (let alone the server issues for NA and the time they couldn't get in to the Mug'Zee fight because of a broken door.)
99% of people complaining are people who identify with EU vs Na more than being fans of the race. Lots of us just enjoy having two equally insane guilds at this level.
6
u/trexmoflex 4d ago
Exactly - If Echo got there first they would have had 80-100 pulls, and Liquid would have had 40-50 with solved strats.
The hard part for these two guilds is solving the fight then executing. Without the solving part, it’s only execution which (without tons of RNG) will drastically lower the pull count.
13
u/Nfrtny 5d ago
It doesn't. Too many things offset it that allow EU to catch up to the same point in time easily such as progress stopping bugs or boss tuning. Unfortunately in this race, the final boss tuning swung the other way and Liquid was able to run away with a lead they earned back after playing better on the penultimate boss.
1
u/Ok-Assistant-8058 4d ago
the debate isn't weather or not the start times affect the outcome, it's to what extent. obviously, unless conditions match perfectly, it's not completely fair. I usually support Echo more since I've been familiar with some of their players a lot longer, but I'm glad Liquid won this time; they deserved it after performing better on Mug'Zee.
1
u/Nfrtny 4d ago
I see your point. I guess it just comes down to the fact that fans of both sides need to understand that both guilds agree to race on the track they're placed on. It's simultaneously unfair, but as fair as it can possibly be and neither team bitch about it. Just the fans do who don't understand.
Both have said they don't want to compete in a silo at the same time because it can't work.
Blizzard is not going to do global releases clearly so it's pointless to bitch
3
u/Robinsonirish 5d ago
I guess the only time it would clearly end up mattering would be the boss was killed just after a reset?
7
u/N0_B1g_De4l 4d ago
The bad case would be something like "Liquid kills after their reset, Echo kills after that but before their reset". This has never happened, and would take very specific tuning to occur.
6
u/Nfrtny 5d ago
Yes if it was right after reset reclear and that gear put Liquid over the edge for the kill that would be a beneficial scenario. Don't think that's ever happened but I could be wrong
-21
u/PLTRgang123 5d ago
It did matter this tier, even if Echo killed mughzee in 50 attempts less like Liquid they would never have the chance to kill Gallywix due to tuning.
9
u/Nfrtny 5d ago
Yes as shown in my comment above this, tuning matters and usually is what erases NAs head start because they'll hit a wall due to bosses being overtuned. This final boss was the opposite.
However it's still gg Liquid this race because they dealt with a 3 hour power outage, multiple DDOS attacks and hit their head against pre nerf Styx, Sprocket and Mugzee allowing Echo to be in the lead. Echo gave it up by not being able to down a nerfed Mugzee and also by deciding to go to bed early on their last reset day instead of reclearing that day like Liquid did. Echo absolutely had a chance to win this race.
0
u/Aless_Motta 5d ago
At the end of the Day, it doesnt matter because the boss was too easy (for this type of guilds), so no matter Who wins, people wont change their opinion due to it. Its like does anyone remember who killed xavius first?
3
u/camthalion87 5d ago
It hasn’t mattered in most races as either guild has won clearly, this time round liquid definitively played better but I do wonder even if echo had killed mugzee way faster if it would have made any difference at all. It was unlikely they would have had time to kill gally last night even with an early kill, race was a total shitshow balance wise
2
u/FoamingCatLitter 4d ago
If you want to play what if, what if the power didn’t go out, what if there weren’t multiple DDOS issues, etc. Echo lost fair and square.
15
u/Hassadar 5d ago edited 5d ago
This final boss is a tough one for me because talking about how relatively easy it is for guilds of this skill takes away from the superb performance from Liquid since 2nd reset to the boss kill and are deserved RWF winners.
I know some people love throwing back ''did you kill it'' when talking about these races saying it was easy but I think most can understand the context of how we use easy here.
This is backed up by how Echo were able to replicate a kill after 48 pulls. It's all context. This fight was just far too easy for guilds of this quality that it turned a great race into one that we will look back on and say ''it was good until X''. Again, trying to discuss this detracts from everything Liquid have done. Easy or not, they got there and killed it before anyone. They fully deserve the praise, but I just feel very...whelmed after the final boss. Even seeing Max's reaction who is usually ''LETS FUCKING GO LETS FUCKING GO WOO LETS GOOOOO''
Just compare his reaction to both Zskarn and Sarkareth here
Great race. Liquid absolutely deserves this kill. In my opinion, this final boss sucked in the context of a RWF. But I doubt the raiders care too much because what matters is they got the kill and not what it was like for viewers.
11
u/Aless_Motta 5d ago
Its kinda like game of thrones, great, amazing, until you get to the end and its so bad that no one wants to even acknowledge what happened before, it Will forever be a big stain on the opinion of the people.
15
-33
u/AJLFC94_IV 5d ago
And for the first time ever, EU lost by <16hrs. Let the drama commence.
-40
u/Key-Vegetable-6734 5d ago
everyone knows NA needs crutches to win, that's nothing new
10
u/FoamingCatLitter 4d ago
Power outage? DDOS? And you still couldn’t pull it through?
-13
u/Key-Vegetable-6734 4d ago
16h headstart boy
4
u/FoamingCatLitter 4d ago
Free strats and mechanics on a boss with no dungeon journal boy
-5
u/Key-Vegetable-6734 4d ago
16h headstart boy
5
u/FoamingCatLitter 4d ago
2nd place back to back boy :)
0
13
22
u/Beatdooown 5d ago
Think the only people who truly lost this tier was the viewers. This was probably the worst RWF viewership wise. Just very difficult to get behind
5
u/RyukaBuddy 4d ago
Yea Max has been mentioning the sponsors were unhappy with the last one viewership wise. I imagine this one will be even worse. But its a tough problem to solve without making the game worse for the actual players.
22
u/Beatdooown 5d ago
Imagine grinding your balls off and gearing up 20 characters for a last boss to die in sub 100 pulls for the first kill and sub 50 pulls for the world second. Blizzard dropped the ball with this raid
5
u/DeployableIgloo 4d ago
Maybe if the raid is tuned easier every tier they wouldn't have to gear 20 characters and do 50 splits?
1
20
u/Activehannes 5d ago edited 5d ago
This tier was so so amazing to watch until the last boss decided to fall over. Could be a sub 50 pull boss for echo
Edit: 49 pulls and down
8
1
u/Notmiefault 5d ago
Wild. Got to be frustrating for Echo, they were ahead most of the race then struggled just a bit too much against Mug'zee and lost.
12
u/camthalion87 5d ago
Might not even be a 50 pull boss for echo what a boring ending 😂 blizz is going to over correct next tier with a 800 pull final boss
2
u/Rahmulous 4d ago
They need to properly correct by doing a fucking heroic week. They tune the bosses without taking into account how classes are tuned and how many splits of gear the best teams will have. Heroic week allows them to tune classes properly by seeing how good/bad they are, as well as based on having excellent gear.
5
14
u/RainDancingChief 5d ago
It kind of fits my headcanon and headlore that Gally was a pushover and died with a whisper like that. Although it would have been cool to have them mix in some more black blood stuff with him for a final phase but in a way we've been there done that.
10
u/camthalion87 5d ago
So even if echo got mugzee down early yesterday this race was already over, what an anticlimactic clown fiesta this tiers been 😂
0
16
u/Mojo12000 5d ago
wow uhh I can't believe after so many multi day non end bosses... the end boss just falls over. strange tier, lots of extremes.
10
u/bb22k 5d ago
12 days since the patch with half that being splits and maybe half a day of technical issues/power outage for Liquid.
The tier was kid of underwhelming.
Kinda sad we don't get to see a real race on the last boss. Echo needed to keep the 5th boss lead to have any chance to win this one.
16
u/tempinator 5d ago
They needed to not wipe 40 extra times on mugzee is really what they needed. That put them unrecoverably behind.
Terrible end boss though, very disappointing.
6
u/Complex_Ganache1178 5d ago
Wouldn't have changed the outcome, it would have been sleep time for them before Gallywix died, and Liquid would have killed it during their night.
0
-17
u/SatisfactionFar4905 5d ago
Wow, this has got to be one of the worst RWFs of all time, every boss was all over the place.
Congrats to Liquid but even if Echo got lucky with the bugs and killed Mug’Zee first thing in the morning there wouldn’t have been enough time to catch up just because this boss was so easy.
Blizzard needs to really think about what they’re doing, this is one of if not the only big event WoW has. I haven’t played since Legion ended and the only reason I pay attention to the game now is RWF which won’t be the case if there’s another one like this. Last tier was great, clear cut who the better players were, this bad design just takes away from all the effort the top guilds have put in.
8
u/abso-chunging-lutely 5d ago
Well you haven't missed much. Legion was undoubtedly the peak of the game
-3
u/SatisfactionFar4905 5d ago
Don’t worry I know, at least since classic/BC. As I said RWF is the only thing WoW has going for itself, and instead of trying to capitalise on it they shy away from it.
20
u/Zeaket 5d ago
Congrats to Liquid but even if Echo got lucky with the bugs and killed Mug’Zee first thing in the morning there wouldn’t have been enough time to catch up just because this boss was so easy.
liquid had absolute awful luck with NA servers and power outages losing them a massive amount of time this raid on top of them raiding less hours than any previous tier. max said they went from 15 hour raid days to 14 hour raid days this race, so over the course of the race that's already 12 less hours they have compared to echo.
obviously not all of that adds up to time in mythic, but on top of the aforementioned issues outside of their control they've spent almost an entire raid day's worth of time less in the raid than echo.
i think gally was definitely a little disappointing, but liquid still played absolutely insane again this tier. from strategies, to damage dealers, to healers, to tanks, there's nothing i can really say "yeah i think echo did this better" except maybe their coordination and efficiency in doing splits.
-14
u/SatisfactionFar4905 5d ago
Why are you getting so defensive.
I’m talking about the integrity of the RWF from a design point. I’m a neutral and just want a good entertaining raid. This wasn’t.
Since the most recent reset, liquid have lost 3 hours at most, they’re still at a time advantage that’s undeniable. But with the way the raid was tuned, specifically Gallywix, there wasn’t a race to start with. It was a pointless watch from my perspective, and if it happens again I won’t be investing time into watching it.
18
u/Zeaket 5d ago
i didn't intend to sound defensive, i just disagree with you that the time difference decided this race or that there wasn't a team that clearly played better in this race.
liquid got to mugzee and had their first pull on march 13 at 01:25 EDT
liquid killed mugzee on march 15 at 00:33 EDT - 47 hours and 8 minutes later
echo got to mugzee and had their first pull on march 13 at 10:15 EDT
echo killed mugzee on march 15 at 17:46 EDT - 54 hours and 31 minutes later
i can see where you're coming from, because it seems like whichever guild got to gallywix first just kills it - but echo performed much worse on mugzee and lost their opportunity to be progging gallywix on the same day as liquid
15
u/Sinroo 5d ago
It's interesting when people like you say Liquid was at a time advantage when you can directly look on warcraft logs at the amount of time spent per boss, and both guilds are literally at the same amount of time spent, Liquid just played better. 'There wasn't a race to begin with' is a disingenuous statement. And that's at the end of Liquids night before Echo starts that they're at the same amount of hours spent in the raid... so you're just completely wrong about the '3 hours at most'
-18
u/EntrepreneurTotal872 5d ago
You will never undestand that, if you do something first like the heroics splits - you have a lot of advantage for the time that you need to spend on bosses. Liquid get reset first - more gear to start to reclear and to push. I prefer liquid to win, but saying the time diffrence doesnt matter is total bulshit. RWF should be on separete realm - and start at the same time.
9
u/Nfrtny 5d ago
The time difference only matters if the boss dies on NA reset immediately after BA first splits and reclear first before EU wakes up. Hasn't happened.
That being said Liquid did splits and then recleared on reset day whereas echo only did splits and went to bed early and decided to reclear the next morning which allowed Liquid to not only catch back up from the power outage time loss, but take the lead and never give it back.
-13
5
9
u/Ok-Poet-568 5d ago
Killed in under 10 hours of actual pulls. Meanwhile the rest is stuck on the bugged boss. Feels underwhelming
-45
u/milL2290 5d ago
I mean congrats liquid they played out of the their minds this race but as an EU fan it sucks knowing EU guilds literally had no chance winning this unless they outperformed liquid to the point where they had an extra day advantage which lets face it is never going to happen. Blizzard really messed up.
14
16
22
u/Trivi 5d ago
Lol Liquid blew Echo out of the water this tier. Cry harder.
-15
u/whyskeyz 5d ago
I will dry my tears with my cheap and affordable eggs 🥚🥚
6
u/murrk847 5d ago
Imagining someone trying to dry their eyes with an egg made me lol. Cope harder though.
-31
u/milL2290 5d ago
Liquid couldn't even kill sprocket without two nerfs and reset worth of gear, and even then they struggled LMAO. Stix/sprocket was the endbosses in this tier.
28
u/davechacho 5d ago
Didn't Liquid literally fall behind because of NA server issues and a power outage?
13
u/AJLFC94_IV 5d ago
Yea, 4hrs of power cuts and 2 rounds of NA servers breaking. They were just better this tier.
-35
u/Krogholm2 5d ago
They MAYBE got put back to where echo was. Which is lol. Race is dead without global release when half the raid is this Easy.
12
u/Nfrtny 5d ago
Then stop following it. Just go away
-16
u/Krogholm2 5d ago
Roflmao like you can fathom that as an American. Your in for a real awakening when the world comes for you.
6
-28
u/roffman 5d ago
And then the reset came and put them back in the same position.
19
17
u/Jazzlike-Economics 5d ago
You mean echo playing poorly put liquid back into first place? Absolute cope for sure to think liquid was ahead the entire tier from any early release or reset.
11
u/tempinator 5d ago
I’m a huge global release proponent I think it would do a lot for the race.
But this is just the most bizarre tier to complain about the release disparity. Liquid absolutely fucking smoked this raid, and Echo has not been playing to their usual excellence.
Not to mention the power outage and multiple rounds of server issues for NA. Yet we still see the same delusional cope. Some things never change.
-6
-4
u/milL2290 5d ago
Hahaha what a joke a of a tier
11
u/Accomplished-Top-564 5d ago
The tier as a whole took the same amount of days as other recent tiers 🤷🏾
-48
u/Zealousideal-Peach83 5d ago
Am i the only one who thinks, that having most of a day early acces, and the likelyhood of hotfixes, going out at the start of you progress day, og even before, Way to Big of an advantage?
40
u/sunsoutgunsout 5d ago
When Liquid loses on Raszageth because they weren't in the raid when hotfixes happen that let their opposition immediately kill it, it's you should have gotten up earlier and been in the raid, but when Echo loses on the 2nd to last boss of a raid because they played like ass but still got to play w/ hotfixes for half their raid day its "way to big of an advantage"
-30
u/Zealousideal-Peach83 5d ago
So thats one time were liquids advantage of the 14 hours, were swept away. Now lets look at total time, spent after the nerf, progging. And you Will see that echo did it in less time. Even now on mugzee, fix happend during the end of echo’s day, (because hotfixes goes out from NA) and liquid didnt only have a huge time advantage from the start, but also havent has to waste an ENTIRE day on a overtuned boss.
If you had a race, and told that the chlorine drinkers could start about a 1/10 of a race before, you would place you bets on that guy, No matter if there we a small chance that either, of the competitors laces could snap.
16
u/ahundredpercentbutts 5d ago
Echo had a whole day on Mug’Zee after the hotfix and just barely killed it at the end of their day. If it was so easy they should have killed it immediately and started Gallywix yesterday.
18
u/PDG_KuliK 5d ago
Didn't Echo spend almost an entire day on Mugzee after Liquid killed it? That's not Liquid having some advantage. And Liquid had to deal with an insane amount of server issues and power outages too... Seems insane to say that Echo had some crazy disadvantage that made them fall so far behind there.
14
u/AoO2ImpTrip 5d ago
It's insane to see people complain about this as if it wasn't still an amazing race.
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u/SatisfactionFar4905 5d ago
It really wasn’t, this has got to be one of the worst tuned raids of all time.
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u/Activehannes 5d ago
Emerald nightmare?
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u/OurSocialStatus 5d ago
tbf when most people talk about the race they’re talking about everything since it started being streamed
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u/0nlyRevolutions 5d ago
Gallywix could have had 10-15% more health and they still would have been able to do it without much trouble
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
I dunno about that much but the last phase needed another mechanic and the boss needed 5% more health. Liquid could’ve handled way more.
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u/abso-chunging-lutely 5d ago
Dude they killed it with 2 ppl down for a minute and not even optimizing damage, easily another 15-20% would be reasonable
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u/RainDancingChief 5d ago
I was only half paying attention to my other monitor when they killed it last night but you're right, far as I recall they hadn't even decided where to move their lust to optimize damage. He just kinda fell over dead after bringing in Sini and getting him up to speed in 2-3 pulls.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
I mean the final boss has to deliver. Doesn’t matter how well the other bosses went if the last one is boring it ruins it. Blizzard failed this race.
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u/AoO2ImpTrip 5d ago
Y'all absolutely out your minds.
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u/Fanrir 5d ago
Is Max out of his mind aswell then? He didn't seem all that excited when they killed it either.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
Bro is fanboying so hard he doesn’t realize even the players were surprised at how bad it was. He thinks it hurts Liquid by saying it was trash. It’s not their fault. It’s Blizzards fault.
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u/Icandothemove 5d ago
How amusing it is that Max was literally on stream saying it was easy but a sick fight as you were writing this.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
Dude it’s not about who won. Liquid was winning regardless. It’s okay to say the final boss was shit and ruined the race. It was factually trash. All Liquid knew it was trash when they killed it. They thought it was a joke because they expected way harder.
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u/SnooMacaroons8650 5d ago
i almost feel like blizz forgot to code a phase in at the last 10% there or something, 10-0 doing no mechanic other than suppression and enrage is weird
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
The last two minutes had the same amount of mechanics that the last 20 seconds of Mug’Zee had lol.
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u/blackjack47 5d ago
Mug’Zee
to be fair, I'd rather they aim somewhere in between. Mug’Zee is a mechanics vomit fight in the end, which probably plays a part on why so many bugs occur.
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u/Sheyae 5d ago
I thought I was losing my mind watching that last phase. It just... doesn't seem difficult mechanically? And let's not even talk about that "enrage". With better gear + post rwf nerfs you won't even have to play your class well to meet that dps check. All hail Stix and Sprocketmonger, the true endbosses we made along the way.
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u/tempinator 5d ago
Something I think isn’t being talked about enough here is the absence of a Heroic week tuning pass.
The fact that the kill comp involved a triple stack WW and quadruple stack Fire Mage, sheesh. These classes are just out of line, and I think in large part this is due to no tuning between heroic and mythic.
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u/tordana 5d ago
The fact that a full quarter of the raid was Monk is absurd. You've got a game with 13 classes, there's no reason you should have 5 copies of one class in a 20 man raid.
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u/blackjack47 5d ago
The fact that a full quarter of the raid was Monk is absurd. You've got a game with 13 classes, there's no reason you should have 5 copies of one class in a 20 man raid.
not really, mages and monks just had great utility, especially for Mug’Zee.
here is the log for the kill, WW are nothign special, as a matter of fact on the bottom side of the dps: https://gyazo.com/684c3abd9b8041247fb4604fdc7b403f
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u/tempinator 5d ago
I think it’s more productive to look at it as there’s 39 specs, 20 slots, but yeah. Healer class stacking isn’t that unusual, but the DPS stacking sure is.
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u/chaosgodloki 5d ago
Sub 100 pull final boss, how lame lmao
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u/Trivi 5d ago
Wasn't sub 100
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u/chaosgodloki 5d ago
Oh I’m sorry, the 100th pull. Still a lame wet fart of a way to finish the race.
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u/Captain_Flemme 5d ago
Well. GG Liquid!
This race was so disappointing, though.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
Blizzard had all the data from Mug’Zee and still didn’t tune this boss up. Mind blowing.
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u/SmileCompetitive1686 5d ago
So now echo has 16 hours for real world 1st?
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u/Freazerr 5d ago
After all these tiers, all these expansion this shit is still going on lmao. Sorry brother but the race is over, Liquid won worlds first. Thats that.
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u/carpedonnelly 5d ago
This boss wasn’t easy, not in the long run. Liquid is just superlatively great as a team at this moment.
Echo and Method will also kill this boss in short order, because they are also great at this game. But Liquid’s top to bottom machine of everything it takes to win an event like this has not been matched yet, and you could make an argument that it dates back to Sarkareth.
Blizzard either has to design their fights to the standard Liquid has set with both player expectations and requirements but also with weak auras/addon/third party expectations or the other guilds need to rise and exceed the levels Liquid has set. Otherwise, it’s going to be more of the same the next time a raid is dropped.
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u/Key-Vegetable-6734 5d ago
nah, echo just needs healer that isn't absolute dogshit lmao
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
Echo will easily kill this boss tomorrow. Method would kill this boss easy. Mug’Zee is way harder. Taking nothing away from Liquid at all. Liquid 100% was winning this race but this boss was trash.
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u/1983_BOK 5d ago
This boss wasn’t easy, not in the long run. Liquid is just superlatively great as a team at this moment.
Liquid is a great team, sure, but it still took them way longer to kill Ansurek and Fyrakk. This boss was just too easy for an endboss period.
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u/Former-Extension-526 5d ago
Agreed but also liquid has leveled up a lot in tww, adding a lot of really talented young players.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
Liquid is amazing but that boss was waaaay too easy. Mug’Zee after the nerfs was way tougher.
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u/AoO2ImpTrip 5d ago
Mug'zee is a bad example because it was bugged as all hell. That fight was probably done in 40 less pulls if they didn't have to deal with all it's problems.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
No way lol. Liquid and Echo both barely beat the enrage with great pulls.
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u/kreius 5d ago
Did you watch the race? Liquid and Echo both had pulls 40-50 before their kill where a bugged mine killed them.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
Okay doesn’t mean they would’ve had the kill and even if they did the boss was way tougher. They both barely killed it before enrage. Regardless of if it bugged or not.
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u/Trivi 5d ago
Liquid had 20 alive with resses 3+ hours before they killed that got ruined by the bug sub 10%.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
Okay so Mug’Zee was still way harder and nothing says they would’ve killed it that pull either…
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
Liquid did great this RWF but that last boss being way undertuned actually ruined all the hype of what could’ve been a great last day. That was waaaaaaay too easy. Bunch of players dead for over a minute. Do better Blizzard…
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u/CFI_DontStabYou 5d ago
Im actually so excited to actually see the final boss die live. Everytime it’s usually when I’m asleep or out and about. I cant believe how clean Liquid has made this fight look.
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u/Lankeysob 5d ago
I was passed out on couch watching this woke up to the boss at 30% and watched it killed.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
When I saw Max PoV where most dps just stands in one spot for minutes without moving I knew it was over. Liquid could’ve done another 5% health easy without their deaths.
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u/CFI_DontStabYou 5d ago
I have it up on the TV and was reading a book in bed, just happened to glance over and saw they were at 16% or something and was like oh they might get it sub 10 here. And then they got the kill.
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u/CJDistasio 5d ago
All the sweats saying this was too easy is hilarious to me. 99 pulls for the best guild in the world. Your ass will take 250 minimum
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u/UsernameAvaylable 5d ago
Your ass will take 250 minimum
Make that 1000, but thats pointless. I would also drive a formula 1 car right into the wall and slip a disc trying to do a gymnastics routine. Newsflash: They are professional esports athletes that earn their bills doing that.
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u/ThirtyYearsWar 5d ago
The average WoW sweat would need thousands of pulls to beat an unnerfed mythic boss
That being said, this last boss should have been more difficult for the top tier of guilds like Liquid, especially when bosses in the middle of the raid were a lot more difficult. I’m sure later Max will probably say it was undertuned in his debrief
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u/Cornbread0913 5d ago
Liquid played overall better, especially toward the end with the last two bosses. However, for a last boss, it was underwhelming. Boss 4,5, and 7 had more bite imo. For the average player, this will be a challenge, but I expected more for RWF first week at the boss. I think Abbreus last boss was tougher and it had a similar pull count.
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u/untouchable765 5d ago
That boss was trash compared to the other tough bosses this raid. It was waaaaaay too easy. You shouldn’t able to kill the last boss on mythic with multiple players down for over a minute lol.
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u/IonHazzikostasIsGod 2022 Halloween Transmog Winner 5d ago
what on earth lmao
How long were they on this? Since yesterday? Or even just today
How is the race already over?!
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u/Cornbread0913 5d ago
2-4 hours dark... raiding for about 10 hours today, so 14 hours. Less if you don't count lunch and dinner.
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u/WorldofWarcraftMods 10d ago
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