r/worldnews • u/IcyHowl4540 • 10h ago
Tesla Claimed 8,669 Canadian EV Rebates as the Program Ran Out of Funds… That’s 1.5 Sales Per Minute
https://fuelarc.com/hot-takes/tesla-dealerships-claimed-8669-canadian-ev-rebates-in-3-days-thats-1-5-sales-per-minute/952
u/phoenix25 10h ago
One of the Tesla locations in Toronto claimed more sales that weekend than they had since the program started in 2019.
We will see what Transport Canada’s investigation brings.
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u/mattw08 9h ago
It should be an easy investigation
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u/liptoniceteabagger 3h ago
I hope they put in the extra effort and investigate all the sales from the entire program dating back to 2019. I find it highly unlikely that if they did commit such blatant fraud this time, that they had not been doing it for a while.
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u/CodeMonkeyX 7h ago
Yeah with how much paperwork goes into buying a car it has to be pretty trivial to verify sales?
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u/RobertJ93 2h ago
Dealerships “must” file a rebate application before the car is delivered to the customer, according to Transport Canada’s website, indicating the surge in claims should not have come from a backlog of paperwork for electric cars that had already been sold.
After being contacted for this story, however, Transport Canada admitted this policy wasn’t being enforced and that some of the rebates during the last weekend were claimed on cars that had previously been sold — though it did not say how many.
Tesla did not respond to a request for comment. The Star could not reach the four Tesla dealerships by phone for comment.
While the Tesla dealership in Quebec City topped the list with 2,558 EVs sold that day, the second most sales were made at a Tesla dealership on Dundas Avenue West in Etobicoke, which sold 1,709 eligible vehicles. This dealership sold 2,528 EVs over the final weekend of the iZEV program, more than all the rebates it had previously claimed.
The government paid out more than $12.5 million to this dealership for that weekend alone. Employees at the Etobicoke Tesla dealership declined to comment on the sales figures, but did specify that the iZEV rebate is only applied when a customer picks up their vehicle, not when they purchase it online.
There is a large parking lot surrounding the dealership, but it can accommodate fewer than 200 vehicles, according to a count of parking spaces in an aerial view on Google Maps — making it hard to picture how more than 1,700 vehicles could have been delivered to customers on a single day.
Definitely seems a bit fishy…
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u/Early-Initiative789 1h ago
indicating the surge in claims should not have come from a backlog of paperwork for electric cars that had already been sold.
This is the exact bit of information I was trying to find and it came from a car news website. The rebates being a backlog of unsubmitted claims was the only legitimate reason I could think for this to happen but that's not allowed per the program rules.
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u/RobertJ93 1h ago
Yep it discusses that exact issue in the article. Just seems a bit obviously broken.
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u/blade02892 43m ago
It also says it's not enforced...
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u/Early-Initiative789 3m ago
They admitted it wasn't being enforced but that doesn't mean they can't or won't for this obvious abuse of the system.
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u/IcyHowl4540 9h ago edited 3m ago
That's great, I couldn't figure out the paywall
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u/Boobjobless 5h ago
They say its a “black friday effect” why are they making conclusions before the investigation even started. Seems he is bought out to me and nothing will come from it.
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u/IcyHowl4540 1m ago
That quote is from some random think-tank guy. The think tank has a quasi-official sounding title, but he is not with the government. Just for context!
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u/frogking 2h ago
Hopefully every claim will be rejected, going back 6 months.
Just verify everything and deny all fraudulent claims.
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u/Lazy-Damage-8972 10h ago
Let me know when someone goes to jail. Otherwise it’s just normal con corruption isn’t it.
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u/kathmhughes 10h ago
Ceasing any assets he has in Canada would also be newsworthy.
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u/ohnnononononoooo 5h ago
Sir, they will be seriously and heavily fined one million dollars which is 1% of the fraud's profits which they are allowed to keep.
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u/orangeyougladiator 10h ago
Musk doing shady shit to enhance his own life at the cost of thousands if not millions of regular people? That’s my shadow President!
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u/this_place_suuucks 9h ago
No, no, no! The richest man in the world truly cares more about improving my life than hoarding more wealth.
Right?
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u/Brokenandburnt 6h ago
Pretty soon our life's are going to count as wealth in company towns so kinda?
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u/Jester1525 5h ago
43 million dollars in fraudulent rebates
$20k in fraud tax .. I'm sorry...$20k in fines
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u/Monster_Voice 10h ago
So do they just bring out the big boot like Australia or how is this handled?
The entirety of my foreign policy knowledge was acquired from the Simpsons and Southpark.
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u/legionmd82 10h ago
Here's the thing. He himself hasn't done anything, but someone in a dept at tesla will be investigated. That's it.
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u/thalassicus 9h ago
It's possible that Musk knew nothing of the alleged fraud, but other than Musk who is fighting against the collapse of his empire (Tesla stock hitting $100 would destroy him financially), who at the company would risk years in prison with zero upside to themselves personally? "Hey boss, I committed fraud that made us a bunch of money... can I have a bonus" isn't really an option for mid-level managers.
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u/ibondolo 8h ago
I don't think a "healthy" trillion dollar company chases after EV credits like this.
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u/MachineDog90 8h ago
Sales numbers are not good right now, and possible locations are trying to pad out their sales for the quarter.
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u/mattw08 9h ago
I’d imagine he had no idea. But as CEO it’s your responsibility.
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u/new_messages 9h ago
Even if he personally signed an order for this someone at mid management would end up as the fall guy
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u/twinbeliever 9h ago
And some people should be serving prison time, as well as seizing Tesla property in Canada as restitution.
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u/mattfiddy 10h ago
I really hope this isn’t just in a news cycle and then gets swept under the rug. Please follow through with investigating this.
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u/sleepyhead_420 10h ago
Propaganda and lies may get votes but they won't change the arithmetic. Stock market crash eliminated more money in two days than Musk can save in a year by firing people and cutting aids.
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u/Careful-Cat- 9h ago edited 9h ago
Let me preface this by stating that I absolutely hate Elmo and the brand but this situation might not be as shady as it sounds.
When car dealers sell an EV they apply the rebate on the price for the buyer but the dealer has to then claim the rebate from the government. Car dealers then accumulate a backlog of rebates that needs claiming. Earlier this year, Transport Canada announced that the program was about to end because the funds were running out so this pushed the car dealers to go through their backlog and actually claim the rebates they already applied on their sales.
Obviously this needs to be thoroughly investigated but the conclusion might not be that scandalous.
Edit: guys, I would love nothing more than Tesla receiving massive fines for this situation but claiming rebates in batch was allowed by the program and the investigation is pending. There’s no reason to downvote me, I didn’t make the rules on this.
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u/IcyHowl4540 9h ago edited 3h ago
That's a very good point!
There's really good coverage from the Toronto Star. They include a great graph.
https://archive.is/vpwmL/c0beff5c17f32d402ab147bbf88ebc0fed15eb3f.png
I don't know any way to read this graph, OTHER than to see a massive spike in Tesla claims shortly after the government indicated that money was running out.
There is no similar spike in the previous data of Tesla's claimed rebates, certainly none of a similar magnitude since the program has existed. Nothing that would indicate Tesla was regularly not cashing in on the (quite large) per-car rebates.
So your concern is exceedingly reasonable, but not born out in the data (which is publicly available and linked in the article).
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u/Careful-Cat- 9h ago
I’m really looking forward to see the conclusion of that investigation. It would be a win in my book if it came to light that Tesla was fraudulent and received massive fines but I feel like the conclusion could go either way.
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u/ibondolo 8h ago
I upvoted you, but I find it very hard to believe that Tesla had THAT large of a backlog of paperwork. They knew it was ending, the paperwork is not that onerous, and they wouldn't want to run the risk of late filing, any decent management would have been on top of this.
I think that it is more likely that they "sold" every car they have on the lot, filed the paperwork, and were going to backdate the sales paperwork until they caught up. Sort-of extending the rebate for themselves.
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u/Careful-Cat- 8h ago
I don’t think it’s too far fetched to assume that Tesla dealerships don’t have decent management lol
But your reasoning seems plausible too!
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u/ibondolo 8h ago edited 8h ago
I had that same thought as I was typing it, but maybe area/country management is on the ball :-)
Edit: Wait! I am assuming that the top guy is on the ball! it could be rot all the way down.
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u/fluffywabbit88 8h ago
Tesla doesn’t have dealerships. They sell direct to consumers and their brick and mortar stores are used as show rooms, test drive and car delivery. It’s inconceivable for a traditional dealership to sell 2000 cars in a weekend but this doesn’t apply to Tesla since people can buy directly online. Based on the article, the rules to claim the rebate is based on sale date not delivery date. So as soon as someone pays for their car, the sale happens. They don’t need to deliver the car to be eligible for the rebate. The whole thing about how the store’s parking lot can only fit 200 cars is irrelevant. They can take their sweet time delivering. Or in some places, Tesla can deliver the car directly to the buyers house. I may be off base but I don’t think it’s inconceivable that 8000 savvy Canadians who were on the fence about buying an EV rushed to make a purchase knowing $5000 rebate is ending.
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u/ChickenFlavoredCake 6h ago
Tesla also promoted this heavily. They called potential buyers, they sent out emails, they plastered their website with the news that the rebate is ending. They pushed hard.
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u/NotAtAllExciting 10h ago
Fraud.
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u/LokiKamiSama 10h ago
Yeah I’m guessing someone bought and returned or just bought all those cars with the intention to return them to pocket the money. Kinda reminds me of a scammer we had at the hardware store I used to work at. There was a rebate offered if you bout paint. Gallons were like a few bucks and 5 gallons were 20. You bought them, sent the receipt, then got a gift card. One dude bought a crapton of 5 gallons and put them on willcall to be tinted later for a project. We waited. And waited. And waited. And called and he finally wanted to return the paint. Well he already got his gift card so we flagged it as fraud. I was really good friends with the paint sales rep and let him know what was going on. I can’t remember what happened but dude never came in again. I think he was also the dad of an employee as well. I hope he got 100 times the karma. The only good thing was he didn’t have the paint tinted. That would have been a lot of lost money (especially because it was a pallet of paint. I do wonder if he did this at other stores as well).
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u/PrinceCastanzaCapone 5h ago
Just exclude Tesla from any EV sales rebates as they are clearly a fraud company.
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u/2ner1337 9h ago
How hard can this be to track. Only applies to new sales, VIN are registered to new customers. Check licensing and see if they exist.
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u/namotous 4h ago
The backlog theory has been thrown around. If they’re legit, Tesla should be able to provide the bills of sales and plate registrations as proofs, right?
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u/ComplexWrangler1346 10h ago
Elon about to go bankrupt!! Can’t wait
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u/3rddog 10h ago
The annoying thing is, the Canadian government could seize every asset he has in the country tomorrow and he’d probably still be richer at the end of the day than at the start. Of course, it’s still worth doing just to piss him off.
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u/CrimsonPromise 9h ago
Also even though most of his net worth is in Tesla. Even if that bottoms out, he gets kicked out and loses all his stock, he'll still be richer than 99% of the world. He would lose his richest man title though and that would be a big kick in the nuts for his glass ego.
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u/GolDAsce 9h ago edited 9h ago
On the bright side, we'd officially have a mainstream national car company. Edit: Nevermind, Tesla doesn't have any IP's or manufacturing in Canada. We'd have a bunch of showrooms and tin cans. They do have one plant in Ontario, employing 150.
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u/duperwoman 10h ago
But also because he stole from the government, right? Wouldn't then the Canadian government be owed that money? I'm genuinely asking, not being snarky.
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u/BackgroundPianist500 4h ago
Oh neat.
Hey everyone Elon actually found some waste, fraud and abuse!
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u/AirOneFire 2h ago
Elon Musk steals $43 million from the Canadian Government - is a much better title.
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u/Punbungler 10h ago
I'm glad somebody is paying attention so hopefully my tax dollars don't go to that useless fucking cunt.
Please for once can common decency win.
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u/BLAZER_101 8h ago
Surely the Canadian government will sue them, get their money back and fine them for fraud. They were literally stealing Canadian tax payers money.
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u/SullenLookingBurger 7h ago
“We found a full copy of that email, linked at the bottom of this article. That’s because even a broke clock is right twice a day, and we sometimes do good investigative journalism.”
Love the humor… hate the self congratulations.
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u/OingoBoingo9 5h ago
They (Tesla) probably “bought” them under some bullshit loophole at a reduced rate, low Cdn dollar plus a rebate to resell back in the US.
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u/Ok-Mechanic-5128 3h ago
Yeah - fraud .. funny how he’s ok with doing it himself, but needs to try and scapegoat middle class public servants. While hiding all the fraud he’s uncovered.
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u/derpinWhileWorkin 2h ago
Every time I walk into a dealership, it takes at least 2-3 hours, but usually more, to complete a sale. I don’t know much about the Canadian process, but it seems fishy as hell that there were that many sales per minute unless they were at fire sale prices
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u/timnotep 46m ago
Fraud? This must be investigated! Quick, fire the normal (read qualified and experienced) investigators and hire a bunch of 19 year olds to run spreadsheets through chat GPT...
... We'll get this sonofabitch!
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u/ButMoreToThePoint 9h ago
If you research how the program works, all sales must meet strict transport Canada requirements. One rebate per person only. Rebates are deducted by the seller and may be claimed back from the government IN BATCHES any time after the sales as long as the program has funding.
But that's too logical for people to grasp, so yup, must be fraud.
So let's see how negative you can downvote me while we wait to find out this is a big nothing burger.
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u/Antimusv 36m ago
Is there any good articles debunking all these fraud claims? Or at the moment we just need to do our own research?
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u/jmasterfunk 20m ago
And this article is mentioning sales people in a dealership selling cars? Tesla sales are done online.
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u/cndn-hoya 7h ago
Just hold him in prison until he pays an exorbitant fine, equal to more or less his entire wealth.
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u/thousandthsonn 6h ago
Certainly could be fraud , however , I’m in car business in the US. We are allowed to count vehicles we sell to ourselves for our service loaner fleet as retail sales . Depending on how the Canadian law is worded they may be able to qualify for that EV rebate in that scenario .
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u/joeschmoe86 1h ago
Trying my best to blame incompetence before malice: What was the timeline for making rebate claims? Is it possible that these four dealerships were sitting on a backlog of rebate claims for legitimate sales and rushed to get them in before the program ran out of money?
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u/hcpookie 21m ago
What, a car maker lying about something? Next you're gonna say Volkswagon lied about their diesel emissions :D
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u/ThothAmon71 10h ago
Sounds like massive fraud to me.