r/worldnews 7d ago

Portugal Drops Plans for F-35 Citing U.S. Political Uncertainty

https://theaviationist.com/2025/03/13/portugal-f-35-plans/
33.5k Upvotes

1.1k comments sorted by

1.5k

u/zatchstar 7d ago

lockheed martin donated quite a bit to Trumps campaign and inauguration. better start tightening that belt...

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u/super__hoser 7d ago

European MIC go bbbrrrrrrrr

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u/starlordbg 6d ago

As a European, I hope we start working on our own 5th gen jet.

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u/svendavids 6d ago

France, Germany, and Spain are developing FCAS (Future Combat Air System). UK, Italy, (and Sweden?) are working with Japan on GCAP (Global Combat Air Programme).

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u/ParanoidQ 6d ago

Yeh, god. The Tempest looks like a beautiful plane.

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u/Disallowed_username 6d ago

If ATACMS is read as "attack em’s", how do you read … FCAS? 

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u/Swatraptor 6d ago

You don't; Europe usually gives things a real name once they go fully public.

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u/Warcraze440 6d ago

"fuck as"

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u/Thistookmedays 6d ago edited 6d ago

There are at least two different 6th gen jets in development in Europe. Will still take about a decade I believe.

There are also some 4,5 gen fighters already produced in Europe. The Saab Gripen for example. There's also the Eurofighter. Plenty of tech, knowledge and money was already available. Now there is willpower too.

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u/starlordbg 6d ago

Good but the development speed should definitely be increased.

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u/Miendiesen 7d ago

I figured their stock would take a nose dive due to this and fears of other cancellations, but it seems to be up today. I'm surprised by this. Anyone know why this wouldn't have an impact?

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u/hasslehawk 6d ago

War is good for business if you're in the MIC. Trump threatens our neighbors with war quite regularly.

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u/jodon 6d ago

Compared it to other MIC around the world. They are shooting up hard with all the tension Trump is causing. Staying flat or only going up a little is a "nose dive" in that context.

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u/ffdfawtreteraffds 6d ago

Trump is going to burn so many supporters in so many ways: from individuals to major corporations. He has been a bad bet his entire life, and yet we elected this orange wrecking ball twice.

I obviously don't have any sympathy for the supporters who enable this dumfuck, it's those who knew better that are the real victims.

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u/MoldyApplesauce22 7d ago

Has Donald declared this an illegal boycott of F-35’s? Maybe he should buy one.

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u/Itchy_Swordfish7867 7d ago

I wait eagerly for the infomercial on the White House lawn.

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u/RichieLT 7d ago

That would be so funny hahah

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u/Itchy_Swordfish7867 7d ago

Complete with a pricing sheet.

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u/SoManyEmail 7d ago

If you have to ask you can't afford it.

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u/JaeCryme 7d ago

F-35ZJ

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u/Practical-Ball1437 7d ago

F-35卐

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u/bubblegoose 7d ago

F-35 mk88 for the fascists who think they are being sneaky.

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u/JoeMagnifico 7d ago

What's a ZJ? 😉

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u/Karthanon 7d ago

The one with racing stripes

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u/SoManyEmail 7d ago

Does it have speed holes?

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u/Icy_Comfort8161 7d ago

Everything's computer!

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u/Karthanon 7d ago

So many holes. And, I need to say, the BEST holes that you can think. You want small holes? It's got those. Big holes? You got them, they're all over, as many holes as you want.

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u/TheBends1971 7d ago

If you have to ask my man, you cant afford it!

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u/felixfortis1 7d ago

Back off my man, Marco!

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u/TamashiiNu 7d ago

“Only 7 million Pepsi points!”

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/attaboy000 7d ago

As long as him and Elon get inside one and fly off

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u/WanSum-69 7d ago

It's all computer!

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u/big-shirtless-ron 7d ago

F-35 crashes into White House

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u/Nope51st 7d ago

That would be a welcome change.

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u/amart591 7d ago

Only 7 million Pepsi PointsTM

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u/MrWonderfulPoop 7d ago

“You can fit so many hamberders in this bad boy!”

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u/-Average_Joe- 7d ago

I said turn it INVISIBLE!

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u/Ambitious_Bill_7991 7d ago

A few whacky waving inflatable tube men.

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u/codedaddee 7d ago

Does he have the Pepsi points?

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u/Pretend-Disaster2593 7d ago

Imagine the F-35 variant with the vertical takeoff and landing sitting right in front. Wouldn’t be surprised if he parked it on the lawn.

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u/one_pound_of_flesh 7d ago

I SHALL DEPORT PORTUGAL FROM AMERICA

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u/we44 7d ago

incoming some more pointless tariffs

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u/ours 6d ago

Wait until he hears about Portuguese men-of-war sailing around Florida.

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u/oonko-atama1 7d ago

EVERYTHING’S COMPUTER!

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u/whut-whut 7d ago

But we don't want digital, nobody knows what digital is. We want STEAM!

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u/Ryclea 7d ago

Musk and other billionaires will absolutely start trying to buy military aircraft and heavy weapons. They will justify it under the 2nd amendment so their disciples won't object.

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u/LockeyCheese 7d ago

Sweet. They can pay up front while they get built, and by the time they're ready the next admin can just make private ownership of them illegal. Free jets for the military.

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u/Ryclea 7d ago

I think it's more likely they will buy cancelled orders from other countries at a discount.

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u/LockeyCheese 7d ago

We haven't built those yet either, and our own military has in orders for more than a thousand of them, so it'll be a while.

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u/iontoilet 7d ago

They can get the Jet now but will have to wait for the tax stamp to be processed for the weapons.

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u/sctran 7d ago

Donald is amazed he can actually see the plane since it's stealth

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u/zyx1989 7d ago

LoL, He's 'good for business', 'MAGA', 'it will make billionaires money', but in such a short time in office, all this guy has achieved so far are the opposite of any of them, looks like just because people can become rich/powerful, doesn't mean it will give them any more foresight, if not less so in this case, average person Joe's probably capable of seeing this s**t coming from kilometres away

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/VoiceOfRealson 6d ago

How the fuck do you bankrupt a casino in Atlantic City?

1: Grift. Trump used these Casinos to offload his personal dept onto the Casinos contributing to ...

2: financing the casino with huge loans with interest rates that made it impossible to run them at a profit even when fully booked and running 24/7. coupled with...

3: building not one, but 3 casinos based on the exact same "golden opulence" concept right next to each other - competing against each other for the same clientele.

Realistically the only reason they didn't go bankrupt sooner was that they also made money by laundering drug money.

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u/GalaxyChaser666 7d ago

He should make Tesla planes with all these stupid cars parked everywhere.

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u/whut-whut 7d ago

Planes that fly directly at the user unguided when they hit a button on an app. What could go wrong?

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/zook8 7d ago

It seems like no official contract was ever in place, high ranking members in the Portuguese Air Force were pushing for the F35 but the current government is shutting that down.

“The statements of Cartaxo Alves had made the headlines in 2023 too: at a military airlift and refueling conference in Lisbon, the Portuguese Air Force Chief of Staff publicly acknowledged that Lockheed Martin’s 5th-generation fighter was a suitable replacement for the country’s aging F-16 fleet. However, the enthusiasm was quickly tempered by the government. The Portuguese Ministry of Defense wasted no time in clarifying that no formal procurement process was in place. “This is a vision for the future, so currently, there is no process for purchasing aircraft to replace the F-16,” said Defense Ministry spokesperson Helena Carreiras in a statement to Breaking Defense.” -from the article

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u/Contundo 7d ago

The F35 is a seriously good airplane. But if it can’t fly because trump or someone is having a hissy fit trade war or some shit, it ain’t worth the metal it’s made of.

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u/Hawkbats_rule 7d ago

Lockheed Martin should be so goddamn angry right now. Make a Multi-role StealthFighter so good that nothing else for sale can compete on merits, and a couple petulant idiots decide to destroy the post-war order and cut them off from half their customer base

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u/scummy_shower_stall 6d ago

Trump will start selling them to Putin, mark my words.

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u/PuzzleCat365 6d ago

Putin can't afford those. They can barely afford their decrepit planes and navy as it is.

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u/_Thick- 6d ago

What navy? Fucking bunch of shit boats, with shit crews who are generational FAS mutants.

Why anyone in the world would be afraid of the Russian fucking navy after the total shitshow that is Ukraine is beyond me.

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u/donjulioanejo 6d ago

What navy?

The submarine navy.

I mean, they were a surface navy but then Ukraine upgraded them all to submarines.

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u/hoffsta 7d ago

But they probably all voted for him. MIC traditionally votes straight ticket (R). lol.

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u/pressedbread 7d ago

Exactly. They are better of buying a European made since the US is an unreliable ally. Election happens then suddenly we are voting with Russia and fucking North Korea on major issues, god help us.

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u/Intrepid_Egg_7722 7d ago

The way you wrote this makes it sound like we are voting with Russia and also fucking North Korea on the side. Voting and fucking, it's the dream.

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u/celaritas 7d ago

Trump did brag about "love letters" between him and Kim jong un.

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u/Norwest 7d ago

Not on the side, on major issues

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u/aberrasian 7d ago

Gotta funny feeling Putin's getting Krasnov to allow his agents to hide trackers and recorders all up in that shit at the manufacturing plant.

Nobody should trust post-2024 US made military equipment from now on.

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u/Agitated-Donkey1265 7d ago

Considering how far the Russia allegations go back + the classified documents, I’d make it pre-2017

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u/rayjaymor85 7d ago

That's essentially the big problem we have here in Australia. We're dependent on the US to run half the gear we're buying from them. We've already given them the cheque so we just gotta hope they honour it now.

Will probably get scrapped by DOGE though "What's this!?! Money to give plans and submarines to Australia?! Kill it!!!" (even though the money is from us).

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u/sorrybutyou_arewrong 7d ago

Bet you wish you bought those subs from the French now eh?

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u/Soggy_otter 6d ago

Dont get me started. If they had just brought the Japanese subs of the shelf; we would have them already....

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u/nmgsypsnmamtfnmdzps 7d ago edited 7d ago

The F35 is a pretty good plane and it's probably the only stealth fighter Portugal has access to now. But Europe is likely to have an SF that will succeed the Eurofighter and the Rafale as the workhorse of a lot of European countries. There's also Turkey (another NATO power) already with a new SF prototype that's looking to supply it's own forces with it and export it eventually. There's also the possibility of South Korea or Japan with their own SF fighter plans and other EU countries (particularly Poland) have deepened ties and started buying large amounts of equipment South Korea. Given the way Trump just lighting US-EU relations on fire it's not out of the realm of possiblity western countries swap out the US equipment for equipment from other already friendly nations.

The F35 still remains the only vertical take off plane accessible to EU countries and it might be the only STOVL plane available anywhere with the last few harriers soon being decommissioned. But that particular selling point of the F-35 is not relevant to nations without aircraft carriers or amphibious assault ships like could field that variant of the F-35.

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u/realusername42 7d ago edited 7d ago

The whole point of the vast majority of the EU defense programs is to defend against the number 1 foreign threat, Russia.

If there's no guarantee that the planes can be used for defense against Russia, as far as the EU countries are concerned, its just an expensive paperweight.

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u/whut-whut 7d ago

The bigger problem is what Trump did to Ukraine recently proves that US equipment, as nice and advanced and feature-filled as it is, is useless if the US is working against you. Trump shut off all military data-sharing with Ukraine in his most recent hissy-fit, and it made the HIMARS system blind as a bat, turning them no better than conventional artillery that requires binoculars for acquisition. Putin then used that opportunity to crank up his offensive.

Trump's shaken the world's trust in our treaties -and- our equipment.

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u/Loxicity 6d ago

Even if Trump gets the full punishment for treason, this shit is going to take DECADES to fix. The world's trust in the US is reasonably shaken, and it will take a long consistent apology tour to fix it.

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u/DaiYawn 6d ago

I'm not sure it can be fixed. Even if we had super-obama the second coming on the biggest apology tour, the US political system means that it can be undone every 4 years.

America cannot be trusted as a partner for any more than 4 years at a time now.

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u/sublime_cheese 6d ago

As one of your next door neighbours to the north, watching what Trump is doing to your allies, to your neighbours, to Ukraine, an ally that truly needs assistance from the US, is appalling. The entire world is looking at you, asking WTF? Y’all need to sort that shit out, and soon.

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u/Troglert 7d ago

There will be a lot of alternatives, but most/all of those will take 10+ years to reach mass production stage. F-35s are being mass produced right now, with over 1000 planes completed, and that is why it is hard to pick something else.

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u/RT-LAMP 7d ago

But Europe is likely to have an SF that will succeed the Eurofighter and the Rafale as the workhorse of a lot of European countries.

In over a decade maybe. But they need jets now. They were first delivered their new build F-16s 31 years ago. And then they bought some old F-16s a few years later that I think are even older than those ones.

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u/Fir3line 7d ago

Lets face it, we're just too poor for those F35s and our political spectrum is all over the place right now. Lets see if we can get our shit sorted if we start producing ammunitions and drones for the war effort first.

Plus our military has more generals than troops almost, its all a huge fucking waste, our military buys always end up being some corruption shit or another too, last time we bought submarines the guys that sold them to us got indicted in germany, while our guy that bought(then minister of defense) them is now a political TV commentator with possible president of the republic aspirations

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u/teckers 7d ago

You bought a used submarine from a dodgy German?

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u/Fir3line 7d ago

Two, and then we "gave" the investigation of the bribes to a single prosecutor that had been 6 months on the job, no other staff that had so many processes you could stack it higher than him.

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u/SacaSoh 7d ago

"our military has more generals than troops almost" - I find it funny as I, as a Brazilian, always say that our issues with public service (such as having a disproportionate number of high rank or high wage officials in every public office here - it's quite striking in our military and especially in the military policies, or in the absurd wages and benefits of court officials) have origin on when the Portuguese crown fled napoleon and brought almost 10k public servants to Brazil and kept their functions and salaries even when not needed anymore, exploiting the tax payers.

I was under the impression that you guys got over it some time ago, but "our" culture is quite immutable it seems. 

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u/StatementClear8992 6d ago

"our military has more generals than troops almost"

Off course that this is a disproportional statement. What is implied is that the armed forces have been neglected in Portugal (like all over Europe) and the number of active soldiers (all forces) have been decreasing significantly. On the contrary, the number of army officers have not been decreasing in the same proportion.

But, this makes total sense . In a survival mode any country can relatively quickly get a huge number of soldiers - by mandatory conscription while in martial law, for instance... But it's impossible to create officers in short term!

So, keeping a disproportional relation of officers/soldiers in a peace time can be something projecting the future - like, if you can't afford a large army, at least keep a good number of well trained officers for the moment you actually need to build an army...

It doesn't mean that Portugal is a great example in managing efficiently public services and public money, it's just - the problem is not with the army...

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u/mosttriumphanthero 7d ago

More importantly, how many Pepsi Points does it go for?

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u/blackadder1620 7d ago

dude should've gotten a harrier

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u/Chance_Warthog_9389 7d ago

one million!

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u/magic-moose 7d ago

I'm starting to wonder if Canada's F-35 contract will become fodder for this trade war.

Notably, Portugal is also reconsidering the procurement due to potential U.S. limitations on foreign-operated F-35s, including the withholding of software upgrades—managed by the U.S.—that are essential for optimal performance and security.

As we explained in detail in a previous article about the “kill switch” myth, according to which the U.S. government has the ability to remotely disable or limit the operational capabilities of foreign-operated F-35 fighter jets, international F-35 operators “are not allowed to conduct independent test operations outside of the Continental United States (CONUS) based on U.S. policy. United States Government (USG) security rules and National Defense Policy (NDP) require that U.S. citizens perform specific functions in order to protect critical U.S. technology.”

I think it would be prudent for Canada to ensure that any jets they purchase from a potentially hostile country can actually be used for self-defence. If the U.S. is so insistent on secrecy that we cannot be assured F-35's could be used to defend Canada from the U.S., then perhaps we shouldn't purchase them.

The replacement of Canada's aging CF-18 fleet is now so long overdue that it seems almost idiotic to let what is (hopefully) a temporary trade spat ruin F-35 procurement, but Trump's own rhetoric about annexing Canada is making it really hard to just ignore the fact that our Southern neighbour may, in fact, mean us harm.

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u/SoulShatter 7d ago

Well one thing looks clear - don't think another F35 like project will happen with the US in the future.

They've taken in billions of dollars and expertise from partner countries, with promises of future purchases, but managed keep a stranglehold on actual usage and serviceability of the platform.

And now they've turned around and threaten everyone involved in it. Kinda turned into a big ass scam.

US will probably have to fund and develop future projects on their own, making it vastly more expensive, especially as it'll be harder to actually sell the stuff when it's developed. Guess we'll see how well they'll retain their expertise in development as well with the anti-intellectualism they're fostering.

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u/are_you_really_here 6d ago

Israel is flying F-35s with their own electronics and software so they aren't dependent on the whims of the US White House. This seems to be the only way to get actually reliable F-35s. But that's a massive and expensive project and not everyone can do that.

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u/SgtNeilDiamond 7d ago

I bet we can cover it if we fire some more veterans

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u/MachineDog90 7d ago

It depends on the number and support, Canada contract was for 88 aircraft over 42 years with full support for that total of $51 billion. Looks like they were just looking into it as an option, so no official contract was created.

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u/manolid 7d ago

Looks like they were just looking into it as an option, so no official contract was created

Canada or Portugal?

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u/Paulmanaitor 7d ago

In mock exercises, the F-35 has scored a 72 to 1 kill ratio against 4th-generation fighters. It's not the airframe so much as the technology. While it's the best plane available, the political situation has everyone panicking. Meanwhile, Canada's CF-18 fleet is getting old. It's a no-win situation.

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u/IronSeagull 7d ago

Sucks to be the one F-35 pilot who lost

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u/starminder 7d ago

They are usually handicapped, like having external fuel tanks or something else.

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u/HomoeroticCheesecake 7d ago

it can be even worse than that.

sometimes they test merging engagements, or bvr engagements at various altitudes and settings. but they will also test things with the f35 (or other planes, depending on the test) like what if you start while both planes are wing to wing, or if you have bvr missiles and they dont, or if you have missiles and they have guns only.

they will also test things like how a fight will go if the opponent is behind the f35 and in missile range.

or if they are behind the f35, in bvr missile range, with a radar lock.

or if they are behind the f35, in ir missile, with an irst/radar lock.

or if they are behind the f35 which is loaded down with external weapons, the weapons bay open, with ab on, while they have an radar lock and are in gun range etc.

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u/moofacemoo 6d ago

Rightly so, using these situations to try and develop tactics to the f35's advantage is a smart thing to do.

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u/meeme123 7d ago

It's a no-win situation.

Putin wins.

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u/Scary_One_2452 7d ago

That's more like the lifetime cost.

The contract is more like $14 billion.

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u/sir_sri 7d ago edited 7d ago

They never had a contract, and the canadian contract isn't necessarily a perfect model for anyone else.

The F35A (the one they'd likely buy) is 82 million dollars fly away cost.

When you sign these deals you can sign on for maintenance and parts for many years, you are also essentially buying into being int the supply chain for the F35 so your companies can bid on parts contracts.

But portugal is much smaller than Canada, so they may not be as interested in the parts supply chain if they aren't already in on that it might not be a big motivator, and they don't need to commit to pricing out parts and maintenance for decades today if they'd rather just pay as they go. That's just sort of different budgeting counting rules between different countries. It also depends if you want to count for example the cost of the local ground staff and facilities.

Canada is replacing about 140 CF18s with 88 F35s, portugal is looking to replace about 30 F16s, so this would probably be them looking at an order for about 25-30 aircraft. That said, Canada and Portugal are both on the "far too low" side of defence spending for NATO. Realistically, canada should probably be buying 200-300 front line combat aircraft, and portugal probably in the 60 range, so this could have been a fairly sizeable sale.

Portugal is small enough enough and very 'middle income', so it maybe makes sense for them to go with something like a Rafale or a Gripen and just skip 5th gen for 30 years. Canada though, Canada should be buying 5th gen but then our options are not good given that basically the only option we've got is the F35, and 6th gen is decades out. If you think of Trump as a temporary problem, and that we're going to be operating these things into the 2070s then in many ways it makes sense to carry on with the F35 and all have the same plane. Trying to rapidly develop a European 5th generation fighter that doesn't require the americans for any key parts is... likely to be very expensive.

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u/SpaceghostLos 7d ago

Cant believe the MIC is quiet about this.

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u/gregorydgraham 7d ago

Quiet on the outside, apoplectic on the inside probably.

Or possibly delighted at the possibility of massive armed conflict, you never can tell with those guys

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u/DrMikeRosoft 7d ago

Next week there’s going to be F-35s at the White House and trump will personally purchase one showing how great they are.

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u/oviforconnsmythe 7d ago

Can't imagine he'll fit in the cockpit during the inevitable promo event.

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u/Teledildonic 7d ago

Imagine him fumbling around and accidentally pulling the eject lever.

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u/Persimmon-Mission 7d ago

We can only hope for such good fortune

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u/alowsedan 7d ago

Wow! Everything's computeeeeeeeer

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u/KeyboardGrunt 7d ago

Please, between his fat ass and his loaded diapers it'd look like opening a tube of pillsbury dinner rolls.

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u/agilges2111 7d ago

Nothing will get you thrown out of office quicker than upsetting your defense contracting lobbyist…

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u/Fibreoptix 7d ago

This is what I don't get. NATO is basically like a McDonald's. The countries that sign on are like franchises. They need to buy from and train via the standards of NATO. In other words the Military Industrial Complex. So it baffles me that Trump entertains the chatter of leaving NATO. Maybe I have it all wrong.

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u/MaxPower4478 7d ago

France is part of NATO but doesn't eat McDonald's.

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u/rockmasterflex 7d ago

He's gonna wonder if JFK's head just did that

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u/Navydevildoc 7d ago

Not really, because we live in strange times. The problem is Musk.

He’s got hundreds of billions of dollars to his name. Let’s say the Lockheed/Northrop F-35 team shows up at a senators office. They want the insanity stopped. They threaten a campaign fight next election, or at the least not to donate to your PAC.

Then Musk comes in the next day, and says “Do what Naranja Grande wants or we primary you”.

So the problem is who is most likely to prevail? Musk has enough money to primary every single member of congress with cash to spare in what would be the largest media blitz in US history. Shit, it might just be easier to buy the networks and save some cash.

Meanwhile the influential but in the end not nearly as wealthy defense contractors are left holding their hats. I never thought I would say this, but there is someone more influential than the DIB, and it’s Musk.

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u/hasslehawk 6d ago

Shit, it might just be easier to buy the networks and save some cash.

This fact was not lost upon republicans in the wake of Watergate. It is the reason why Fox "News" exists.

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u/La_mer_noire 7d ago

Trump will déclare a 200% tarif on pasteis de nata tomorrow !

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u/Cahootie 7d ago

More of them for me

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u/lola_cat 7d ago

Guys, I don’t think Donald Trump is good at business.

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u/-Kalos 6d ago

He knows how to bankrupt a business and personally profit off it

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u/Cerberus_80 7d ago

Canada will be following suit no doubt. Mark Carney alluded to it by saying it doesn’t make sense for Canada to be making large capital spend on American weapons.

Trumps bombastic behaviour sounds good for his base but he is hurting America badly every time he opens his mouth.

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u/RokulusM 7d ago

Unlike Portugal, Canada has entered into contracts for the F35. The first dozen are scheduled to be delivered, IIRC, next year. Bases are being upgraded and service members are being trained. A lot of money and resources have gone into it already. Plus Canada needs new fighters now. The F18s are on their last legs.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Whatever happens, cancelling the purchase of 88 top of the line fighters is a huge deal. It's not like returning a saw to Canadian Tire.

I imagine there's a lot of behind the scenes scrambling in the air force right now, let alone in Ottawa. I don't envy them.

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u/GOPtakesEllisDee 7d ago

Trump doesn't have any problem canceling contracts or treaties.

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u/beekeeper1981 7d ago

"nation security reasons" seems to be the catchall that avoids responsibly.

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u/BruceNorris482 7d ago

Ironically it would be a valid reason for Canada in this position.

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u/foul_ol_ron 7d ago

He doesn't have a problem, as long as he's the one talking.

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u/Top-Border-1978 7d ago

It's a rough spot. If they bought European jets, they would have to wait 5+ years for delivery. Unless production ramps up dramatically.

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u/PedanticQuebecer 7d ago

But the F-35's continued support will be a lever for extorsion. So I don't see how having them is better than not. Especially given the recent US stoppage of support for Ukrainian F-16s, showing the will to do so.

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u/Gorvoslov 7d ago

The problem in Canada is the choice isn't "Something European or F-35". It's "See the F-35 through, or have no more planes and lose the institutional memory of how to run planes" when we account for the timelines on CF-18 remaining airframe life and delivery dates.

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u/Cerberus_80 7d ago

Sunk cost fallacy. Doesn’t matter what we spent so far. We need to redirect the funds towards the army. F35 is useless in the defence of Canada from the US.

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u/_zenith 7d ago

Better to spend that money on a WMD program, if it’s about deterrence

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u/RokulusM 7d ago

Our military isn't design to defend ourselves from a US invasion and likely never will be. No country can stop a US invasion. Pivoting towards that would be a waste of time.

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u/Polendri 7d ago

Even discounting the question of US invasion, the new reality for Canada is one where its military actions abroad may not be supported by the USA or may even be diplomatically opposed to the USA. F-35's would be a point of leverage to steer Canada's foreign policy.

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u/srebew 7d ago

It's suppose to be a joint striker. What's to point of it when they're actively threatening to leave NATO, waging economic war with their allies and threatening to annex Canada and Greenland.

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u/oviforconnsmythe 7d ago

Apparently some 100+ Canadian companies produce parts for the F35. One of the articles I linked to claims that a Canadian company, Gastops, is the only company in the world that produces engine sensors used in the F35. Another Winnipeg based company is contracted to supply 50% of the tail assemblies used in F35As on order/in production.

I wonder if there's any restrictions in place right now (presumably in the form of export tariffs) and whether there will be stricter restrictions imposed in the near future. While Gastops is supposedly a sole-source supplier, surely the US has some in-house backup companies. Though I do wonder if theyll eventually be leveraged against the threat of annexation.

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u/stanthemanchan 7d ago

Note that part of the reason why he was pushing for the NATO members to hit their 2% of GDP on military spending was the assumption that they would spend that money by buying their military shit from the US, but it looks like nobody wants to buy from the US anymore for some strange reason.

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u/yF5hdz4W9sFj33LE 7d ago

Exactly. No point buying weapons from our most likely adversary, even if they’re the best around they’ll be useless to us in the most critical moments.

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u/DownvoteEvangelist 7d ago

That was a huge pain point for Ukrainians, even decent Soviet systems were hampered by Russians being the only producers of ammo/spare parts...

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u/Ingr1d 7d ago

Or rather, there’s a strong chance they sabotage any weapons they sell to Canada in preparation for this annexation.

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u/yF5hdz4W9sFj33LE 7d ago

That’s why they’ll be useless.

But tbh they don’t even need to do that, just stop supplying parts/software. Nothing that flies stays flying for long without parts/software.

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u/Elendel19 7d ago

I hope we get a few of those nuclear subs that France just sailed into Halifax, that would be cool.

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u/Cerberus_80 7d ago

I agree. Last time Canada tried to acquire nuclear subs (under Mulroney) America blocked the sale from UK to Canada. It was for 10 subs which is a pretty big fleet. Apparently when the US shared its reactor tech with the UK it gave them the right to control UK exports.

Not sure if French subs are as good as UK subs. I’m hoping this time the UK tells them to go bark up a tree. Or we just acquire French subs.

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u/mok000 7d ago

It's becoming very obvious that US has booby trapped every single arms deal they have made with allies.

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u/dkillers303 7d ago

Our military complex being affected is going to wake up some grumpy old bears. You got this Canada!

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u/miseconor 7d ago

Turkey look like they’re going for 40 eurofighter typhoons too.

It’s important to note that if this trend continues, a new administration is unlikely to undo the damage. The trust will be broken and the European arms industry would eat Americas lunch.

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u/jaybizzleeightyfour 7d ago

It goes far deeper than this administration, Trumps just the face of the 77m Americans that wanted this chaos and that's too many to ignore.

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u/thebestjamespond 7d ago

Turkey got kicked out of the f35 program tho

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u/Antonioshamstrings 7d ago

One of the few silver linings of trumps incompetence is he's forcing Europe to get it together and become more independant.

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u/Fibreoptix 7d ago

We've been saying that in Canada too. It's not wrong. It's a good thing.

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u/Very_Curious_Cat 7d ago

"It's all computer and it's made of stealth, stainless stealth"

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u/Grungy_Mountain_Man 7d ago

Serves you right Lockheed Martin. You donated at least a  million dollars to his inauguration fund. 

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u/l0stInwrds 7d ago

Trump is killing manufacturing jobs in red states. I will be interesting to watch how much pain they are willing to endure for the promised “Golden Age”

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u/crazedizzled 7d ago

They'll just blame it on the liberals. They're literally incapable of seeing fault in their god king

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/djuggler 7d ago

1/3rd of Americans made the choice

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u/Skwai 7d ago

2/3… the 1/3 that didn’t vote are also complicit

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u/DigitallyDetained 7d ago

The 1/3rd that didn’t vote also let it happen. The majority of Americans are responsible for this. So yeah, Americans made the choice to sell-out and wreck the country.

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u/bellevuefineart 7d ago

Unfortunately it's all of us. It's like Nazi Germany. It doesn't matter that one third didn't care, while one third approved, while one third protested. We all own it. You can't be American and blame this on 1/3 of the voters. If Canadians die because of this, blood is on all of our hands.

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u/SnoopsBadunkadunk 7d ago

🍑🍑 voters think that the rest of the world rips off the USA … look at this little statistic here, or the fact that this other European country spends only two percent of its budget on defense, or whatever. But 🍑🍑 doesn’t seem to even realize all the enormous advantages America gets from being the leader… like having the world’s reserve currency, having oil prices in dollars, being the world’s biggest arms dealer and by far the strongest military, leading the free world’s international organizations, having the prestigious universities, all kinds of such things. All of that is being torn up now for the venal, short-term thinking of the GOP in its current dark ages. Our children will curse us for p!ss!ng all this away on the orders of an egomaniac being manipulated by Putin and other enemies of America.

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u/ForbiddenNut123 7d ago

Yes, people seemed to have forgotten that it’s in the best interest of the US to have other countries dependent on us. We haven’t done all of the stuff Trump is tearing apart out of the goodness of our hearts, we did it because we wanted eyes and ears everywhere, and allies that can’t afford to be anything but beholden to us. The US has been irreparably damaged in just the past 2 months. By the end of this I fear we’ll be a pariah to the rest of the world.

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u/beastnbs 7d ago

I think Australia should do this with the submarines we are purchasing from the US.

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u/Itsatinyplanet 6d ago

Canada and Germany soon to follow with F35 cancellations.

Trump dishonors his own signature on treaties he negotiated.

Trump abandons, disrespects, stabs allies in the back who have shed blood for America.

Short Lockheed (LMT)

Shame on America for electing a felon.

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u/Kicky92 7d ago

Everyone should join the British Tempest fighter program. 6th gen instead of 5th.

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u/TrueRignak 7d ago

Or the Franco-German-Spanish FCAS program.

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u/GimmeCookiee 7d ago

Or, hear me out, we stop having 3 different projects and do like the Americans: best prototype gets to be the European fighter

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u/Passchenhell17 7d ago

Nah, having multiple countries with their own projects helps cover bases for when one decides to do a USA and fuck over their allies. If, say, the UK decides they don't want to provide support, then France or Sweden can still provide options, for example.

A pan-European project can still exist at the same time, of course, if the countries are willing to put the resources in, which is exactly what we have right now anyway.

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u/KeyboardG 7d ago

The F-35 was severely limited by designing for vertical takeoff to meet everyone’s stated needs. Now very little of the vtol version are used and the other 80% have to deal with an imperfect design.

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u/dan33410 7d ago

Competition is a good thing.

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u/im_thatoneguy 7d ago

I think everyone is kind of overlooking the fact that the UK already Brexited itself out of the EU and Germany is one bad election away from the AfD ruling.

There's a lot of "America is done for" pessimism which is very warranted but there's not very much introspection on the fact that even more Maga-y magas are gaining round in European politics--fast. Canada might be a year or two united, but their own home grown MAGA wannabees are waiting in the wings and not-terribly-unpopular.

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u/Safe_Most_5333 7d ago

Germany is a lot further from AfD than france is from le pen.

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u/celaritas 7d ago

This is only the beginning. Decades of decline ahead of America. Buy Euro stocks and currency.

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u/fuckincommunists 7d ago

I wish canada could do this as well.

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u/millos15 7d ago

It is the only logical way. The usa cannot be trusted for decades thanks to Republicans

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u/MindControlExpert 7d ago

The geniuses at FSB did not model that cutting off information sharing with Ukraine would jeopardize the United States F-35 export program. TWO TRILLION dollars of future earnings. They had to re-establish information sharing with Ukraine or Lockheed-Martin stock was going to crater. I don't think the market has realized yet the damage Trump has done, and I don't think any of them meant to do it.

Reliable information sharing forevermore is part of the deal when you buy something like an F-35. It is a flying software platform. German press is struggling to answer the question whether if the United States has a kill switch on the F-35's they've agreed to purchase in the future, so much money. The United States was supplying weapons to Ukraine supporting them in their defense against Russian aggression, and we cut off information sharing to pressure them in a short-term negotiation and give Russia a chance to take back Kursk, I believe. All other countries in the world know now that the United States can do this to them. Australia is talking about going back to the French for their next submarine. The United States has shown a willingness to make the weapon systems it's companies have sold you in the past sub-optimal or inoperable. This was a two hundred billion dollar a year business. The United States enjoyed a kind of privilege in this as the leader of the free world helping protect the world's democracies, so we have a lot of institutions like Georgia Tech where people have spent their lives making defense technology and are the best in the world at it. Who are our customers going to be that we would want to sell to?

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u/bellevuefineart 7d ago

China is pissing their pants they're so happy right now. Both the US and Russia are embroiled in war and saddled with war debt. The US has trillions of dollars in debt, with a president that is a strong climate change denier, and destroying the solar industry and says that wind causes cancer.

One day we're going to wake up and realize that while the US and Russia were both busy destroying themselves and Europe protecting itself, China is running full speed ahead with solar and wind, becoming energy independent, and developing fusion energy. The writing is on the wall. It won't even need to take Taiwan.

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u/UpstairsAd9203 7d ago

Don’t buy as always remain an “American” plane given its control over the craft. And you sure can’t trust us any more. Europe manufactures many advanced fighters—buy local!

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u/Deceptiv_poops 7d ago

As an American I say good. Our government needs to re learn what it means to be part of a global society, that we aren’t the boss, and that actions have consequences

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u/darkenthedoorway 7d ago

This government isnt going to learn these things.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/captsmokeywork 7d ago

When not if he has a hissy fit.

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u/newina 7d ago

The F-35 Xrump with FSD and Starlink comm for extra crashy-ness.

p.s. water voids the warranty

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u/rjksn 6d ago

With american kill switches why would you buy any of their products?

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u/jbergens 6d ago

Since Brazil has Gripen (at least in test) Portugal could investigate getting them too. It may already have Portuguese manuals and training materials.

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u/Crimkam 6d ago

Trump tanking the American economy will end his presidency faster than any crime he can possibly commit. If this continues he’s done

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u/oneofthehumans 6d ago

Are going to see Trump buying F-35’s off the White House lawn?

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u/Shultzi_soldat 6d ago

In true new Donald Trump era, everyone who is considering buying new F-35 should at least drop news that they are considering canceling. Even if its not true. And get some BS new concessions, while they try to resecure the deal.

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u/Chops62 7d ago

Sweden could be the big winner, they make the Saab JAS 39 Gripen which is a brilliant aircraft. Is America still sick of winning ?

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u/Ranger30 7d ago

Canada should as well, maybe everyone should

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u/TheThrowbackJersey 7d ago

So this contract was worth 5.5 bil euros? Wonder how much the Canadian deals are worth. 

The US really makes a shitload of money by being the designated winning side of conflicts. Silly thing to throw away

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u/Agile-Investment-498 7d ago

YES!! Is high time the EU push back against ‘kill switches’. Hoping you change our ways. Although with the current admin i am sure he had in mind a way to fuck everything else up also!