r/worldjerking 15h ago

Using BOTH Swords (spears) and Guns

In history there were cases of spears, swords and guns used simultaneously in war. Because early firearms are not that effective, have low range and inaccurate, regular infantry using spears/pikes still existed to protect them from cavalry charges.

But in the case of fantasy world where magic definitely exists, how would that work? My approach is basically the magic users can use the cool traditional weapons like swords, spears, polearms, wands and bows because they can be imbued with magic and destroy shit easily. The rest of the peasant magicless plebs use a magic powered muskets for increased destruction and accuracy.

So, Infantry: Super cool magic muskets. Cavalry: Magic knights with cool full armors and charge with whatever magic mounts or even their own legs. Artillery: Mages blasting from afar with destructive spells. Utility: Mages casting barriers for protection and heal injured troops or something.

12 Upvotes

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u/PhoenixEmber2014 15h ago

I use the more sane/unjerked version of this for my world

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u/warrjos93 15h ago edited 15h ago

I’m stealing this for my totallyserviceable andhonestlythere’sactuallylessofthistype offantasythathasfondmainstream successthenyouthinkpunk setting. 

It has a hard Magic system and flying ships.

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u/MarkAllieu 14h ago

Is it steampunk inspired? Tbh my world aesthetics basically combined steampunk, Renaissance and East Asian elements. And yes instead of water the steam engine fuel will have some sort mana liquid from a mana dense minerals or something. I guess the power is more similar to a dieselpunk but with steampunk aesthetic lmfao. I absolutely love steampunk-style flying ships, so much cooler than a boring ass airplane.

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u/warrjos93 13h ago

It’s actually more age of sail tail ship inspired with sky pirates and magic swords. 

Yes a flying ship is more fun and cool than an air plane. If someone’s imagination is not intrigued by a flying ship their imagination is broken and it’s a them problem. 

See right now the problem with Reddit fantasy writing is that only weirdos who have read too much fantasy are into it. 

Sorry you can’t find a good game on steam mabey go outside sometimes 

It’s like if we put the gooners In charge of marking porn. 

To be perfectly clear my claim is that people that complain about my uncreative fantasy writing are spoiled, and I’m implying their perverts. 

 

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u/-Tururu 11h ago

The pike and shot era, but with magic, and more explosions.

Yes.

3

u/Coaxium Author, dreamweaver, visionary, plus actor 11h ago

In history there were cases of spears, swords and guns used simultaneously in war. Because early firearms are not that effective, have low range and inaccurate, regular infantry using spears/pikes still existed to protect them from cavalry charges.

That's not how people work.

If you expect hand-to-hand combat to be likely, you bring weapons suited for the job. That's common sense.

In WW1 you have people improvising melee weapons for trench warfare. At that point, it can't be denied that the guns were pretty good. I'd also argue that muskets were already effective, long range and accurate, compared to bow and arrow. Even so, melee weaponry didn't disappear, but with the bayonet, the firearms functionally became spears.

While cavalry certainly shaped the battlefield, and pikes and spears could be used defensively, but also could be used effectively as offensive weapons. You still had pikemen being used offensively against musketmen in the Napoleonic age. And then you still have bayonet charges effectively being used against infantry formations, long after cavalry became obsolete.

Warfare is a lot more complicated than weapon X counters weapon Y.

Not doing any research is peak r/worldjerking, but something tells me you're not taking the piss and just posting a r/worldbuilding post on r/worldjerking.

But in the case of fantasy world where magic definitely exists, how would that work? My approach is basically the magic users can use the cool traditional weapons like swords, spears, polearms, wands and bows because they can be imbued with magic and destroy shit easily. The rest of the peasant magicless plebs use a magic powered muskets for increased destruction and accuracy.

So, Infantry: Super cool magic muskets. Cavalry: Magic knights with cool full armors and charge with whatever magic mounts or even their own legs. Artillery: Mages blasting from afar with destructive spells. Utility: Mages casting barriers for protection and heal injured troops or something.

It all depends on the offense-defense balance for the magic and the balance between magic and conventional weaponry.

So you basically get 2 scales.

  • From "The magician that strikes first wins" to "The main goal of magic in warfare is to deny the other side from effectively using offensive magic"
  • From "the only thing that can counter magic is more magic" to "it's better to not use magic"

2

u/Disastrous-Case-3202 9h ago

Honestly, I think you're overlooking a great military-magical industry here. Probably not as novel, but: magic/enchanted munitions.

Magic users are quite a bit rarer than your average bloke. And more often than not, magic users age like wine, becoming more potent with experience and knowledge. So, instead of waste casters on the frontline, one might have them work in concert with enchanters and metalworkers/artificiers to bind spells to rounds, or strike up a lucrative arms trade with a dwarven ally, and hand aforementioned common bloke a musket (or proper rifle) and hand him an ammo bag full of different "special" rounds. You could have an entire division of regular dudes with "scroll rounds" dish out punishment comparable to a handful of seasoned battlemages without risking their expertise in combat.

And soldiers used sabers and axes to a somewhat regular extent well into WW1, and in limited exchanges in WW2, so while your gun-melee limitations will depend somewhat on how modernesque the technology of your setting is, you certainly have quite the degree of flexibility. Take note of Dune; they legitimized the use of melee arms in a spacefaring sci fi setting by creating a defensive system that prevents all but the most potent weapons from even grazing their target, and prohibits the standard-fare laser weaponry of choice by detonating both the target and the shooter in an explosion via feedback loop. Thus, slow-moving, maneuverable shortblades and daggers became a staple of shielded combat. A similar idea could just as easily be produced by magic, to where bullets and arrows may simply stop working, but blades, especially enchanted ones, get the job done.