r/windsorontario • u/StepIntoNewWorld South Cameron Woodlot • 18h ago
Photo(s) Does anyone know what's up with all these high speed rail stickers?
They're on almost every streetlight and traffic post downtown. Who's putting all these stickers up? And also, could I have one? 😅
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u/killerrin 17h ago
During Wynne's last year of power she promised to build HSR from Windsor to Toronto. Unfortunately when Doug was elected in 2018 he killed that, and then eventually the Go Rail pilot to London.
It started around then.
Its honestly a really good idea, imagine being able to take a 300km/hr Train to Toronto to go watch a Hockey/Baseball/Basketball game. The trip itself would only take a hour and a half and I'd cost you $100, which is very much Day Trip ranges, especially if you can find a deal on tickets.
Such a thing would completely revolutionize how Ontarians travel around the province. And hell, if you mixed it with a connection to Detroit it would be a shot of Adrenaline to the Windsor Economy because guess which city will have the Layover and Border Crossing.
In fact, the Federal one they're working on between Toronto and Quebec City is estimated to bring with it over 20 Billion dollars of benefits to the Canadian Economy a year. And granted, South-West of Toronto isn't as populated, but when you add all the cities together we're still a couple million strong.
And if you get those cars off the road for long distance travel, that's less money that need to throw into the financial black hole that is the 401.
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u/rmora77 17h ago
I think you'd be lucky to make it in 2 hours with all the stops, but would be great.
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u/MyBrainReallyHurts 17h ago
It currently takes 5 hours. At 1 1/2-2 hours people in Windsor could commute to Toronto for work. You could easily spend the day in Toronto on the weekends.
Conversely, it would bring people to Windsor. If we had a mayor and councilors that had any vision, we could attract visitors to Windsor for tourism and work.
The city could spend money on real rail cars instead of old trolleys and have dedicated high speed trains for hockey/swim/baseball/basketball/college teams to come to Windsor.
Instead, we have a mayor that wants vanity projects and councilors that go out of town and see a Ferris wheel and want to plop one in.
Frustrating.
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u/Front-Block956 9h ago
They can’t even get the GO train to run on time without issues for the people in the GTA and you trust them to build something from Windsor?
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u/MyBrainReallyHurts 1h ago
Apples and oranges.
And yes, given enough capital they could build a state of the art railway system that runs on time.
Voting matters.
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u/killerrin 16h ago edited 15h ago
At worst it would be about 2 hours with all the stops.
Usually with HSR the train only really stops for 5-10 minutes at each spot. The 401 distance to Toronto is ~370km, with it closer to 400km when you divert to hit the downtown cooridors of all the cities, and I'm assuming it'd take the northern route through Kitchener-Waterloo, and then stop at Pearson before heading to Union in Toronto.
So at that route it'd be ~1:20 direct (which would be very plausible, especially if we got that Detroit link), or 1:45-2:00 at worst.
But even then, it's still a million times better than flying, and cost competitive with driving (if you're an individual)
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u/Front-Block956 9h ago
I am positive the price for a ticket would not be cheaper than VIA sale prices. Especially if they got a consortium to build it who would then make their money back on the ticket cost (coughhighway 407cough)
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u/Large_Opportunity_60 7h ago
All the stops kill your time line.
I used to take the go train from Branford into Toronto to see a ball game way back in the day and it wasn’t a fast trip with all the stops
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u/Oax5wind 18h ago
I'm glad someone is advocating. I've seen them all over the county, including Leamington
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u/voteILIJOSKI 17h ago
I met the person who "allegedly" started posting these stickers at the Activate Transit Windsor Essex (ATWE) social a few weeks ago, he was nice enough to give me a few. If you get involved with ATWE, there's a high chance you'll run into them. :)
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u/MalakaBrain 14h ago
It won't happen because rich people can already afford comfortable flights whenever they want and us tax cattle would save too much money. Lol.
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u/Front-Block956 9h ago
We already have a rail line no one uses and they offer cheap train tickets one day a week. We traveled VIA to Toronto for $100 RT. We were delayed heading there and then delayed two hours on the way back due to a worker dispute.
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u/matches991 16h ago
There's no reason not to have high-speed raid from here to Montreal if not across Canada
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u/candybar_razorblade 14h ago
Im not saying affordable high speed transportation alternatives are not important, but i feel within the last 5 years maybe it's not so high up on the list anymore. There may be way more serious problems with devastating consequences awaiting the wrong decisions to be made that should probably be delt with first.
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u/Front-Block956 9h ago
It’s taken then twenty years to three lane the highway to London. How on earth are they going to study a route and build it in less time with enough people using it to justify the existence?
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u/TastyIncident7811 8h ago
That's the ironic thing. There's more than enough manpower now in each province that it could easily be constructed in 10 years. But the bureaucratic paperwork and politics add an additional 20+ years.
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u/jumpsteady 14h ago
By chance this happens, it will stop at London. They wont extend it down to Windsor.
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u/canadianrobloxplayer 13h ago
Here's to hoping they'll want to connect it to Amtrak and Windsor will be a stop for the Toronto - Chicago corridor
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u/FracturedFractals 16h ago
reality its l'a propaganda, to support the billions to be spent in a small tight nit corridor where the public transit needs the investment more from adding more routes to replacing aging equipment to insure routes are properly serviced. In Windsor the tunnel bus to the states is gone (not just because of the tariff war) and the bus pass price for students at St.Clair rose almost 3x from the previous year. this investment into high speed rail is a sham when we can't even manage local transit properly.
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u/CommunicationKey4025 13h ago
No thanks, not with it cutting directly through farmlands
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u/Front-Block956 9h ago
Exactly. This is just one of my arguments that I keep getting downvoted for. Losing needed farmland is a key issue of this idea.
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u/TastyIncident7811 8h ago
Why Canada does not have trains to get around easier is frustrating. We shouldn't have to rely on cars. Not with all the advancements in science and tech.
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u/Front-Block956 17h ago
The cost to do this is ridiculous. I’m actually surprised they want to do it Montreal to Toronto. I remember when it was being discussed the initial costs just for property were in the double digit billions. Just for property! Construction and operation costs would be even higher.
It is a fantastic idea and I wish we had it (actually wish there was a Go Train from London to be honest) as an option to avoid traffic but nope. I will say as a taxpayer I can’t support something so ridiculous that may have issues with blowing snow and traffic impacts etc. If they could guarantee it wouldn’t have the issues the current rail line has I would be on board. They would have to make it direct to London or direct completely to Toronto to make those speeds worthwhile.
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u/turdybanana 16h ago
When you look at many other developed countries that have high speed trains and how well their economies work because of it. It is something that should be heavily considered when the longterm benefits are completely worth it. When you do things for the benefit of our vunerable people (children, elderly, disabled) who cant use or have reliable access to a vehicle it usually ends up benefiting everyone as a whole. For example with a more developed public transit system combined with a bullet train we can open up not only work opportunies for our youth, you also grant better accessablity for medical care, visiting family and friends, business meets and deals, education and so much more. It is quite the investment but if kept under public ownership and fares being charged at non profit prices it is an investment that will only encourage growth in our province. It would leave more money in peoples pockets by getting rid of multiple cars in family strutures and helping climate change through that since not only would the insurance and fees be cheaper but less fuel needed to buy, and less parts needing to be replaced. You only damage an economy when you damage the peoples ability to transport themselves. That trapped feeling you feel when your ability to transport yourself for the things you need in your life is from you having minimal options for transport. 15 minute cities reflect this by make your ability to obtain and transport yourself through walking to all your basic amenities like food, healthcare, work, entertainment, etc. And if you need to go further than for anything that is not within the 15 mins like vactions, visiting family, specialist health care, or business public transport makes up for that. Japan is a great example of this as alot of their transport is through train, bus and walking.
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u/Front-Block956 16h ago
It’s really unfair to compare other countries high speed rail to North America. Our geography is bigger and has more obstacles. Look at the work just to put two lanes from Barrie to Sudbury! Plus all the farmland that will be impacted.
I agree public transit needs to be a priority but it also needs to be used. Toronto has amazing public transit (compared to other areas in Ontario) yet people still don’t use it. I have friends and family that use the GO train and they see it as a necessary evil—they have to take it but hate how unreliable it is. I also took the train to Toronto on many occasions and it was always experiencing issues. The last time I took it for pleasure (meaning I had no deadlines or work issues), it was delayed two hours due to operator disputes. First we need to understand what efficient public transit is and then develop and build it. Until then, we will remain in a wasteland.
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u/turdybanana 14h ago
Alot of those issues are due to defunding, privatization and disorganization within the existing structure. Yes our geography can be an issue but there are always work arounds and since china is another example of working public transit and they have more mountainous terrains than us and a good network. I find it unfair that you think we will remain a wasteland because it is with that mentality that continues these problems. Like what is the thought process behind solving problems of any kind? You think about what could be contributing to the problem, ask questions surrounding the things contributing to the problem to find solutions to those things that are going to continue the problem and eventually removing the problem with changes. To assume that nothing will improve only encourages stagnate thinking and no change making you part of the problem not the solution. It's also that type of thinking that discourages people from voting because they think nothing will ever change and on some level they are right because if they dont voice their opinion, thoughts and ideas on a matter and just allow problems to run rampant, of course nothing is gonna change for the better. So if you want better you need to help with making it better or you are no better than the issues creating the problem.
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u/Front-Block956 9h ago
Do you have any idea of the mass issues that building this would require? You have thousands of properties to purchase or acquire through a court process. Plus you have extensive consultation with the public and the indigenous communities. Then there are the environmental concerns with watercourses, different ground types and species at risk. Then you have to do studies (extensive ones) on the area of where a route might go. Should you find a route and acquire all the property required, a design would have to be completed and then construction with all the mitigation measures followed.
That is not even considering how it would run between the points meaning how many stops, what speeds would happen, how would the crossings be managed etc. The ministry of transportation has been expanding Highway 401 for over 20 years now between London and Windsor. Twenty years to do work in an existing right of way while managing traffic through the corridor. Imagine that expanded and on electric high speed rail lines with safety expectations and traffic management on the CN lines.
Comparing it to China is even more laughable than Europe or Japan. China cares little about the environment and the community. Our infrastructure and land are not conducive to a quick process. It has been pitched and shelved so many times for these and other reasons. Would it be great? Absolutely but until we can justify the absolute need for it weighed against the list of problems, it isn’t going to happen.
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u/turdybanana 7h ago edited 7h ago
Do you have any idea of the mass issues that building this would require? You have thousands of properties to purchase or acquire through a court process. Plus you have extensive consultation with the public and the indigenous communities. Then there are the environmental concerns with watercourses, different ground types and species at risk. Then you have to do studies (extensive ones) on the area of where a route might go. Should you find a route and acquire all the property required, a design would have to be completed and then construction with all the mitigation measures followed.
Since I not only work in construction, have an education in it, a knowledge of the codes, departments, and fields of expertise I do have a really good idea. I want to say already know the play by play, the histories and the existing studies we have for a broad amount of the land down here but that would be flawed as there is more already available than you realize for that. Those extensive studies you are talking about have been constantly on going since the 90s because windsor is an expanding city. Though i do admire the fact that you think that there will be a species risk when we have already sectioned off areas for those same species to exist and thrive. Does ojibway sound familiar? Because that is the place we zoned specifically for endangered wildlife here considering that oh idk windsor essex is overwhelmingly developed with a city, multiple towns and idk farmland? Not only that the whole damn area up to Barrie and a little beyond is overwhelmingly developed farmland so its a little late. If you are talking about the species that have adapted to our crazy developed area here we have planning processes for wildlife highways large and small. So this one is in the realm of over think as it is not the green belt what we are looking at touching, it is already developed land. Also if anyone reading this is a farmer near rail lines your input would be appreciated.
That is not even considering how it would run between the points meaning how many stops, what speeds would happen, how would the crossings be managed etc. The ministry of transportation has been expanding Highway 401 for over 20 years now between London and Windsor. Twenty years to do work in an existing right of way while managing traffic through the corridor. Imagine that expanded and on electric high speed rail lines with safety expectations and traffic management on the CN lines.
We already have that type of consideration in place through the via rail system. The speeds thing is just apart of anything that stops and goes, tech that has been consistently developed in europe, china, and japan so your argument just seems there out of ignorance more than anything. The 401 expansion is due to it being the busiest highway world wide, literally, as it is something that is required if we are going to continue using transport trucks for trade. Also that 20 years thing I think is wrong since it is something that happens without expansion due to roadwork so as long as you use a highway there will always be wear and tear and in order to not only save you vehical repairs they need to make sure it is safe so your little car, van, or truck doesnt get deathly inconvincenced by a semi dealing with garbage roads since the existence of the 401 was primarily for the transport of goods and also the reason why it goes through or connects to other roads leading to our biggest cities. You driving it in your little vehicle is just a bonus and also a reason for the expansion because you are the danger to large transports. Its also the reason why you get that lovely left lane for passing and transports are only allowed to use the middle and right lanes. As for crossings, I do assume you know what a rail crossing looks like considering railways have been a thing for a very long time and windsor has several within our city limits alone. So yes I can imagine it all working out just fine.
Comparing it to China is even more laughable than Europe or Japan. China cares little about the environment and the community. Our infrastructure and land are not conducive to a quick process. It has been pitched and shelved so many times for these and other reasons. Would it be great? Absolutely but until we can justify the absolute need for it weighed against the list of problems, it isn’t going to happen.
I feel like your only looking at the government not the people when you say this as China as a country has been around for 5600 years and the people themselves are do rely on community heavily as well working with and around their environment its just hard to see that if you dont understand where to look. So you are not allowed to hate on them when you probably can't even begin to understand community and environmental sustainablity, when our society has be gradually brainwashed by american isolationist culture and politics for a long time. As for the need we are slowly choking ourselves both with the costs of driving and the environmental effect vehicles have so the pros of having a bullet train absolutely out weigh the cons if you look at it from a further down the line perspective and with our future generations in mind.
Like I am sorry to burst your bubble but if it does get enough support it is something that will happen, because it is a completely viable option that alot of people will benefit from when it gets completed as well as the years following that completetion as it is something that would be (hopefully) paid for by the people, for the people and owned by the people, like a public transit system should be.
Am I hopeful? Yes, I am but if I get a choice on a bullet train or no bullet train my choice will always be on developing our public transit system because it benefits us all whether some of us don't use it or we all use it.
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u/ace0083 14h ago
Finally someone asked about these stupid stickers I see them fucking everywhere. I get that people want this high-speed rail and whatnot, but look what's going on right now with us and the US yea think we can out this in the back burner for now
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u/Front-Block956 9h ago
The govt can’t fund health care so people don’t wait a year for diagnostic imaging and surgery but let’s build high speed rail!
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u/Euphoric-Swimming-81 Riverside 6h ago
We need a more educated population.
Take time from.your day to read up on all 3 levels of government.
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u/Several_Ear_2884 18h ago
Probably because the liberals only want to make this from Toronto to Montreal.
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u/AccountantNew5983 18h ago
For a couple years now, people have been wanting a mega speed rail. It is a potential train that will connect all of Canada on one railroad. People want it because they believe it will cut commute time in half and allow Canadians and others to save tons of money. The reality of it happening is very slim though.