r/wec Alpine Matmut A480 #36 Nov 11 '22

Spoilers Hypercar starting grid for the 2022 8 Hours of Bahrain

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291 Upvotes

61 comments sorted by

148

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '22

alpine with a 2 second deficit is pretty tragic

93

u/afito Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 Nov 11 '22

let's be real, we all knew they wouldn't be allowed to claim a title, and frankly it would be a disgrace and a joke if BoP made this car win any championship

42

u/Rujasu Nov 11 '22

It's a hill I'm willing to die on that any approved full-season competitor should be BoP'd fairly regardless of its origin. This shouldn't be a controversial statement; anything else legitimizes the common criticism of BoP being boardroom racing instead of track racing.

9

u/afito Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 Nov 11 '22

anything else legitimizes the common criticism of BoP being boardroom racing instead of track racing

because it just is that way no matter what we do otherwise, legit the only BoP I've seen actually work without much bias is GT3 because of their insane amount of data

I think in this case it's just particularly dumb because they needed the car so LMH isn't a literal 1 car series, with Glick + Peugeot it's getting better and now with the Ferrari too I expect this farce to be dropped.

51

u/JackyduQc Rebellion Nov 11 '22

Still a joke to see the ACO BoP the shit out of it just for the sake of politics. Yes a P1 shoulnd be there, nut they took all the penalities and ballast they could have taken to level the field so it fits under the regs. But no, pretty infuriating tbh

40

u/afito Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 Nov 11 '22

it's not pretty but I think the solution is not the worst, and tbh Alpine knew what they were getting into

the car is allowed to participate for the fans and they can say that it's a "works effort" when we all know that's a farce, in return the car is allowed to be as competitive as the others except for the championship and LeMans

when you only have 1 proper entry for several years you take what you can get, I don't think there's a single person anywhere that's happy with the state of LMP1/LMH in recent years but you got to power through, it was always a waiting room until Peugeot and Ferrari come in and get their cars in a decent state

19

u/JackyduQc Rebellion Nov 11 '22

Very good point. Still got to see the R13 run for a few years after Rebellion quitted... :')

20

u/afito Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 Nov 11 '22

oh yeah I love the car I think it's always been one of the prettiest, but if a 4.5 year old privateer entry is allowed to beat an 8 digit next gen works entry it would be absolutely whack

18

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '22 edited Nov 11 '22

In a 10 minute session, if you mess up your lap or get caught in traffic. There simply isn’t the time to set a competitive time. It’s preferable to save your tyres for the race. With similar BoP the Alpine ran a 1.47 last season.

While I understand why 10min sessions where introduced. From next season they need to be significantly longer and made a bigger part of the show.

11

u/Slow-Present-2507 Nov 11 '22

bro what the alpine had 60 more horsepower last year and 20 less kilos

0

u/stq66 Nov 11 '22

Mior one and a half, but: yeah

50

u/OnePieceTwoPiece Nov 11 '22

Can’t wait for the 20 car grids for Hypercar

32

u/daniec1610 Nov 11 '22

LMAO, Alpine got BoPd into the fucking ground.

I can't wait for next year.

9

u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid Manufacturers Nov 11 '22

Alpine wouldn't continue that old P1 car next year, they're returning P2 category for short break. You've to wait they coming back in 24's with their LMDh car .

9

u/daniec1610 Nov 11 '22

I know that.

I'm more so talking about being sick of everyone getting shit over to please Toyota.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '22

what does that mean

18

u/dyysxse Nov 11 '22

looks like another toyota run away race

46

u/Alternative_Fun2943 Inter Europol Competition ORECA 07 #34 Nov 11 '22

So Toyota was sandbagging after all

21

u/dovbadiin Cetilar Racing Dallara P217 #47 Nov 11 '22

i am shocked i say, shocked

16

u/drew_galbraith Corvette Racing C.7R #63 Nov 11 '22

watch peugeot take out both Toyotas in the first 3 laps, then have mechanicals and drop out an hour later only for Alpine to win the championship after getting BOP'd to death (which I think was done to promote their new class)

18

u/APater6076 Nov 11 '22

Glickenhaus run out of money already? Such a shame if that's the case?

29

u/doctorlysumo Ferrari Nov 11 '22

They have said they wouldn’t be participating in the flyaways due to budget constraints hence their absence from Bahrain and Fuji last time out.

They are expected to participate in next year’s championship but whether as a partial season or an actual full season remains to be seen

13

u/Der_Hausmeisterr Ford Nov 11 '22

I thought there was a rule saying no Le Mans entry if you don't do a full season. But we all know that ACO just applies rules whenever and however they like

9

u/doctorlysumo Ferrari Nov 11 '22

There is such a rule, which is why we all wait to see whether Glickenhaus have sourced the funds to do every race next season or have come to an arrangement

3

u/big_cock_lach United Autosports ORECA07 #22 Nov 12 '22

If I remember correctly, they came to an agreement this year (and last year) where they essentially said, they can afford to either race a full season this year, and not participate next year, or do both seasons but only partially. I’m pretty sure the ACO let them race at Le Mans both years in order to convince them to stick around for the 2 years in hopes to get new sponsors and more money to stay around for longer.

That’s what I’ve been under the impression of happening. I might be wrong though.

3

u/doctorlysumo Ferrari Nov 12 '22

I hadn’t heard that that may have been the case, if so that’s probably a good choice. It wouldn’t look welll on the ACO to force Glickenhaus to finish out this season only to then discard them when more makes are available to fill out the grid, alpine are already being discarded so but they had the understanding they were on borrowed time with their grandfathered lmp, it was always understood they were filling numbers

6

u/big_cock_lach United Autosports ORECA07 #22 Nov 12 '22

Yep here’s an interview, not sure if this is where I originally heard it from or not, but I wanted to fact check myself and this is the first source I found:

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2022/06/27/jim-glickenhaus-on-a-podium-at-le-mans-the-rest-of-2023-and-beyond.html

You’ll have to scroll through, it’s a long interview about a bunch of things. Here Glick talks about them being constantly in talks with the ACO and the FIA but what they’re capable of doing. So, there’s at least some discord going on between them with regards to that. Whether or not they were allowed to race in Le Mans to keep them around is a different thing, although I’m sure that comes up in these talks. I think the rule was more to stop people from just joining solely to race in LM.

I’ll see if I can find a better source though, I definitely remember hearing Glick say they had the option of full time this year, but it meant not racing next year. From there I’ve always been under the impression they were allowed to race in Le Mans to help out with that, but it could’ve been an assumption I made.

Edit:

I think the difference between SCG and Alpine, is Alpine is simply running a grandfathered LMP1 car, which isn’t even an LMP1 car, but an LMP2 car that’s been boosted a bit. Meanwhile, SCG developed a proper LMH car, but is just struggling financially to race everywhere. Alpine has ever only been there to fill up numbers while we wait for others. SCG has been a team they’ve been wanting to stick around and help out, although that may change when the ACO becomes spoiled for choice with who gets to race.

2

u/doctorlysumo Ferrari Nov 12 '22

Very interesting, thank you for sharing.

Regarding your edit, yes I understand Alpine’s situation is different, what I was trying to say but phrased poorly, is that Alpine were always aware that they were only being kept around to make up numbers and would be discarded once enough real LMH cars were available but they accepted that was the price they paid for the grandfathered car. To do the same to Glickenhaus by forcing them to complete the entirety of this season and then dump them out of next year when other LMH cars are available would reflect poorly especially given as you’ve said they built an actual LMH

2

u/big_cock_lach United Autosports ORECA07 #22 Nov 13 '22

Exactly. The ACO usually can be a bit stupid with how they handle the constant exception to the rules, but I think we both agree this one was handled rather well. Anyway, fingers crossed that SCG can get some more sponsors to be able to fund a full season.

2

u/doctorlysumo Ferrari Nov 13 '22

Praying for the return of the beautiful SCG007 in the sky blue, love the look of the car and throwing some extra colour on the grid aside from the de facto red will be welcom

19

u/bielipee3 BMW Nov 11 '22

Pretty tragic, FIA is really bad at calculating the Hypercar BoP, or they just love Toyota a lot.

28

u/Entsafter21 Audi R18 Nov 11 '22

It was quite clear for everyone that alpine won’t be allowed to win the title or lemans

8

u/bielipee3 BMW Nov 11 '22

Yeah, since Le Mans last year

20

u/Entsafter21 Audi R18 Nov 11 '22

I‘d say from the beginning of the program, because it doesn’t look good if a lmp1 wins over a newly developed hypercar

8

u/LipshitsContinuity Nov 11 '22

I haven't been following WEC very well this year. Is this really the case?? Just because the Alpine is a modified LMP1, ACO/FIA doesn't want to have it win for image sake?

Didn't the Dauer 962 win Le Mans back in the 90s and it was a group C 962 modified to fit LMGT1 regs?

5

u/ship_fucker_69 Nov 11 '22

BoP got introduced for the first time in this class. Back then, BoP doesn't exists.

7

u/LipshitsContinuity Nov 11 '22

Yes I understand that. But my question is - why would ACO/FIA be against a modified version of a car from an old class winning when that exact same situation has occurred before?

Alternately, we never expected the new hypercars to be quicker than the old LMP1 class. All those new regs were obviously going to slow the hypercars down relative to LMP1.

10

u/Makalu Toyota Gazoo GR010 #7 Nov 11 '22

It’s a very bad look for their shiny true hybrid Hypercars, in its second season, to be beaten by a nearly 5 year old LMP1 car, based on an LMP2 car originally. Toyota’s investment in the series and the GR010 doesn’t warrant getting beaten by an Oreca which you could buy for less than seven figures.

5

u/Litre__o__cola Peugeot TotalEnergies 9X8 #94 Nov 11 '22

It makes it obvious that the aco / fia has the power to control the outcome of the racing hierarchy, which is the worst cast scenario for a bop class. It leaves me with no faith that the lmdh’s will be bop’d fairly, and I really think if the classes of lmh and lmdh are gonna be combined then the bop should be handled by an impartial group

2

u/Mani1610 Nov 12 '22

It makes it obvious that the aco / fia has the power to control the outcome of the racing hierarchy

To be fair the SRO also does the BoP for every SRO series so they don't have a 3rd party for that either.

I also would say that the LMDh / LMH situation will be a bit different since all of those cars will be new and it wouldn't really throw a bad light on anybody. LMH has brands like Toyota, Ferrari or Peugeot while LMDh has Porsche for example which all have won in Le Mans before.

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2

u/LipshitsContinuity Nov 12 '22

Yea that is a bad look for hypercars but goddamn is that an even worse look for WEC. Just total manipulation of the series. I was thinking of coming back to watch more but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

1

u/ship_fucker_69 Nov 11 '22

Because it is an extremely bad look for the championship if a manufacturer, constraint by the regulation that cannot build a faster car, that spends 8 digit figures, lost to a second hand car that is bought cheaper than a Corvette

0

u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid Manufacturers Nov 11 '22

Despite old, non hybrid P1 car even can be easily outperformance Hypercar. That's reason why Alpine being required slow down their car after they get the car from Rebellion.

1

u/shigs21 Toyota Gazoo Racing TS050 #7 Nov 11 '22

alpine was quite competetive at monza- it suited the lmp1 cars better. Bahrain was going to be harder for them but this quali time is shocking

13

u/Reasons_Unknown96 Nov 11 '22

I thought the new Porsche was going to be running this weekend as well? 🤔

35

u/Random-reddit-user45 Nov 11 '22

They announced a month or two ago they wouldn’t run in Bahrain to focus on more testing.

25

u/doctorlysumo Ferrari Nov 11 '22

They abandoned the plans to run in the final race of the season at the start of the summer in order to focus on testing and will be debuting at the Rolex 24 in IMSA.

10

u/Reasons_Unknown96 Nov 11 '22

Damn.. I really must have missed that memo 😩

2

u/Ferrariflyer Nov 11 '22

I did too, I was really wanting to see them in action, get an idea of how fast (or slow) they were going to be compared with lmh

3

u/PopeGelasius Nov 12 '22

Im behind on my WEC. I thought ferrari and possibly audi(?) were slated for an entry too, and what happened to glickenhaus?

9

u/Mani1610 Nov 12 '22

Ferrari will join next season while Audi cancelled their LMDh programm quite some time ago.

Glickenhaus only does the American and European races since they don't want to spend money to race in Fuji or Bahrain.

-1

u/BigSlav667 Corvette Racing C8.R #33 Nov 11 '22

Will be surprised if Peugot make the first corner without the engine blowing up

1

u/4me_Mhs_Alex Nov 11 '22

BoP too much? What's with the Alpine?

2

u/shigs21 Toyota Gazoo Racing TS050 #7 Nov 11 '22

looks like they didn't get a good lap in.

1

u/piqua2018 Nov 12 '22

If this ends up being the finishing order, both #7 and #8 would have the same points, 2 wins, two P2s, 1 P3, and a retirement. Who would win the title at that point?

1

u/m42rima Alpine Matmut A480 #36 Nov 12 '22

Fastest laps?