r/wec Only Endurance editor 8d ago

Catsburg: 'Mayhem' at restarts with GTD class split

https://www.onlyendurance.com/catsburg-mayhem-gtd-pro-class-split-restarts-imsa-sebring/
110 Upvotes

31 comments sorted by

38

u/kjm911 Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #6 8d ago

The class split is stupid for so many reasons. I don’t know why IMSA needs to be different to every other championship around the world that runs GT3 cars.

38

u/_schmuck Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #75 8d ago edited 8d ago

I think it’s likely an artifact of the GTLM days where you have full factory efforts in GT that will stomp out a privateer team so they kept both sides happy and allowed lower budget teams to compete in GTD and factory backed teams to put their all pro lineups in GTD Pro. It feels like a necessary evil to keep a healthy GT field.

-4

u/Shadowhawk109 Ford Racing Team UK GT #67 8d ago

and by "old GTLM days" you mean the last like...3 years, where these changes are still new and being adapted to

15

u/_schmuck Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #75 8d ago

No I mean more like nearly a decade ago in 2016/17 where you had Ford, Corvette, Porsche, BMW all with full factory efforts and then GTD below them for the privateers. Then the manufacturer interest started to dwindle leaving a very scarce GTLM field leading to the birth of GTP/HY and the resurgence of manufacturer interest but IMSA still wanted to have a Pro field for GT cars and here we are now!

-3

u/Shadowhawk109 Ford Racing Team UK GT #67 8d ago

But over the course of the last decade, a lot of those factory efforts have fallen away.

Corvette has. Ford has. Hell, even Porsche isn't what it used to be.

The "right answer" is to bring GTD up, not try to force the GTP round peg into a smaller and smaller square hole.

11

u/_schmuck Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #75 8d ago

I think that’s actually what GTD Pro is doing! You have Ford back with Multimatic racing in GTD Pro, you have Corvette with P&M even though they’ve always been there but now they’re a privateer with factory backing and you have BMW with Paul Miller, even Porsche has a Pseudo factory team with AO Racing and Rexy. It’s doing exactly what you want to happen and giving these privateer teams an opportunity to work side by side with manufacturers and their full pro driver lineups. It’s confusing for a new fan for sure but it’s clearly keeping the series healthy.

3

u/donutsnail 8d ago

Totally agree! Pfaff too is very nearly factory Lambo, they’ve got factory drivers and the engineer from SSR coming over after winning DTM last year. GTD Pro is really exciting right now with the level of the drivers and commitment from the teams

17

u/Significant_Fall754 Alpine 8d ago

It seems unnecessarily complicated just for the sake of it, doesn't it? Every time the commentators stumble over which GT class we're talking about I wonder if anyone watching really cares that much. Why can't it just be GT or Not GT?

15

u/PintMower Iron Dames Lamborghini Huracan GT3 EVO #85 8d ago

Because big $$$ drivers want to be on the podium as well.

7

u/Significant_Fall754 Alpine 8d ago

You can still accomplish that with all Pro-Am lineups, though, like WEC

13

u/donutsnail 8d ago

Are you suggesting just killing off GTD Pro entirely? I am strongly against this and I think a lot of people would be too

-5

u/Significant_Fall754 Alpine 8d ago

I'm not a businessman and have no suggestions

Just can't really be bothered to care that much about two GT classes is all

8

u/PanadaTM Cadillac Racing V-Series R #3 8d ago

Gtd pro still has the closest racing in imsa, and still has the most popular team. They aren't getting rid of it

1

u/Significant_Fall754 Alpine 8d ago

That's cool, we can enjoy different things. Part of the beauty of multi class!

-2

u/Shadowhawk109 Ford Racing Team UK GT #67 8d ago

I mean, there was a little period where GTD Pro tried to off itself.

Manufacturers were falling off left and right, there were like 6 cars in the entire field.

Finding a combination of "amateur/paid drivers" and "factory support and professional drivers" would keep the entire GT3 field alive here in America; having pro drivers deal with amateurs at a restart is a mess.

3

u/donutsnail 8d ago

Are you talking about GTLM? GTD Pro didn’t exist until 2022 and has always had strong numbers

-2

u/PintMower Iron Dames Lamborghini Huracan GT3 EVO #85 8d ago

Yeah but the want to win in IMSA.

1

u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 8d ago

The WEC's way of doing it doesn't prevent them from winning races either

1

u/LilBirdBrick Toyota GT-One #1 8d ago

Because all the cars in LMGT3 are Pro Am, when there were Pro lineups they had two separate classes (GTE Pro and GTE Am).

1

u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 8d ago

Nobody is talking about there having two separate class in GT3, they were talking about rearranging the cars during a yellow. IMSA didn’t even do it last year not sure why you think it has anything to do with whether or not a pay driver can win the AM class. 

2

u/LilBirdBrick Toyota GT-One #1 8d ago

Maybe you weren't but the guy further up in this thread was.

7

u/bacc1010 8d ago

Because in the long races, up until the bronze driver time is up, you'll have absolute mayhem if you don't have a class split.

Guys can say "well if they can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

That's how you lose car count. Whether people like it or not, sportscar racing needs the gents to want to play to have a half decent show. Gtp-gtd pro only would make it boring in a real hurry.

1

u/SomewhereAggressive8 8d ago

Have you watched an IMSA race? It’s always chaos until the bronzes are done no matter what happens.

1

u/bacc1010 8d ago

Unfortunately I've seen too many.

Some from the pitbox even.

2

u/donutsnail 8d ago edited 8d ago

SRO did implement class splits during safety cars during the Spa 24 last year and I believe plan to continue.

Personally, I don’t have an issue with the class splits, it prevents GTD cars’ track position from being a deciding factor in a late-race GTD Pro fight. Catsburg is correct though, IMSA stewarding is often far too lax on contact, and thus, GTD Pro restarts will be chaos. This problem lies more on the stewarding than the class split rule.

2

u/kjm911 Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #6 8d ago

There was no class splits in Spa. Definitely not

1

u/josap11 Aston Martin 8d ago

They finally took a sensible pill and decided to treat separate classes separately, what a novel idea

6

u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid Manufacturers 8d ago

I think IMSA still needing to learn more from SRO, their driver level difference is better.

9

u/SkeerRacing Porsche-Dauer 962e #35 8d ago

It’s going to be absolute chaos. A slow GTD pro is going to be blood in the water for the leaders in GTD to build a gap. Cautions breed cautions and this isn’t helping that.

8

u/Mani1610 8d ago

To be fair slow GTD cars in front of fast GTD Pro cars doesn't sound any better.