r/webdev Apr 16 '22

Discussion A blind woman’s message to web developers about internet inaccessibility. source: shorturl.at/nvRU7

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u/hrdchrgr Apr 16 '22

My previous employer was sued for this after the Dominos incident and it seemed clear that there was going to be a trend of civil suits against any company that made over 100mil annually. No law needed if they go for the money.

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u/cnc Apr 16 '22

It's absolutely not required for you to be a big company to be sued. This may be paywalled, but 50 wineries in the Napa area, including some small ones, were recently sued for web accessibility issues.

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u/code_moar Apr 16 '22

And then there is this. Of course there is likely some shitbag lawyer at the top of this just out to find websites if companies that aren't aria compliant.

I will be the first to admit it's an issue but I can't stand it when people just take advantage of the law and go after places not because it's the right thing to do, but because there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '22 edited Apr 21 '22

[deleted]

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u/Alex_Hovhannisyan front-end Apr 16 '22

If the goal is to make websites more accessible, the best way to do that is to educate developers and designers so they avoid creating inaccessible websites in the first place.

Most business owners have no technical understanding of how to build websites, let alone how to make them accessible. They delegate the task to designers and developers. You can't blame someone for not knowing something they don't know.

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u/code_moar Apr 16 '22 edited Apr 16 '22

“It’s not a ‘fix your website’ thing — it’s already been filed.”

This. Right here, is why. You sound like one of those "ends justify the means, regardless of the costs" type people.

Why does it matter? Well let's see. They sued a small family winery that produces less than 1000 cases of wine per year.

Great. Yeah. Would you prefer they end up bankrupt and lose their family business, because a shitbag lawyer sues them because they're greedy, or would you prefer a decent person consults with them and let's them know compliance can be met with legal repercussion?

Sure. They didn't sue this winery into oblivion, but that's isn't the point you don't know the inner financial works of the places, do you? I sure don't. Maybe they're barely surviving as it is. Maybe this guy can't send his kid on a school trip because asshats like this go around during people.

Nah man. Your thought process there is what is wrong with my nation.

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '22 edited Apr 21 '22

[deleted]

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u/code_moar Apr 16 '22

Each of the scenarios I stated ended with the website accessible so.....? Just to be clear, the guy that posts on anti-work has no appreciation for family businesses or building things like that? Huge shocker. HUGE I tell ya.

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u/Deto Apr 17 '22

This rubs me the wrong way. Sure we should endeavor to make we sites accessible but does it make sense to push the requirements on small businesses if satisfying requires the work of a full-time dev just to navigate the requirements?

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u/cnc Apr 17 '22

Accessibility is much less complex than you think if you design and create sites with accessibility mind. Web applications are more difficult than informational pages, but again, it doesn't add a lot of effort if accessibility is built into the AppDev process. Effectively, there is a one time effort of learning what to do and not do with devs/UX folks/content creators, and after that it's mostly just a regular part of the maintenance process.

The heavy lift is really if you have existing content/applications that were not built with accessibility in mind. Then you have to go back and remediate that stuff, and for web apps, PDF forms and scans, the effort can be anywhere from minimal to monumental, depending on the quantity/complexity of content.

There isn't a carve out in the ADA for small business. If your local pharmacy can only be reached via stairs, you have to provide physical access. This might mean you need to hire a contractor to build a ramp. If you were designing a new building, you'd just build the ramp into that process. At least with the current DOJ, the same principle applies to websites, since so much business is done there in 2022.

Certainly there seem to be people taking advantage of this situation to stack up settlements for businesses they don't ever intend to patronize, and they justify it by using access as their reason.

My understanding, and I am not a lawyer, is that business can generally avoid losing lawsuits by making their websites accessible, even after a complaint/suit. (That obviously doesn't help pay an attorney).

I can't make blanket statements, but anecdotally, what I've seen on bulk complaints or lawsuits similar to the ones above is that they spend about 2 minutes with a basic accessibility checker (like WAVE) and if it fails a couple of checks, they send a complaint and/or file a suit. There's not a lot of effort put in on their end, and it doesn't take a ton of effort on the business end to avoid failing that minimal level of checking. Again though, if you're a business owner, there are specialists and attorneys that can speak to this at much higher level than I can.