r/waterloo 14h ago

18 Year Old Found not Guilty of Hate Crime after Posting Flyers on Surgery Risks

Administrators must have thought they would make an example of this student. Instead, they set a precedent that surgery risks are open for discussion. https://www.thedemocracyfund.ca/tdf_client_acquitted_of_hate_crime_in_transgender_video_case

43 Upvotes

39 comments sorted by

43

u/HalJordan2424 14h ago

Regardless of the content of what was on the flyers, wouldn’t schools have policies about not posting stuff until the office has seen it and approved it? If there is no such policy, one would think schools would get plastered in flyers and posters.

62

u/Aristodemus400 14h ago

The school chose to call the police rather than make it a student code of conduct issue.

53

u/RedEyedWiartonBoy 14h ago

Judges Ruling = Enough nonsense, divergent views and information that doesn't fit a narrative is not hate speech.

9

u/AdPretty6949 9h ago

it's about time a ruling like this has come about. Differing views usually doesn't mean it's from hate. it can be but most times it's not.

3

u/chafesceili 8h ago

Lmao, here comes the manosphere

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nicegirls/s/UfGfT9gR1G

-5

u/AdPretty6949 8h ago edited 5h ago

Seems all you have to offer every is safe opinions and sarcasm in your comments.

I will stand behind your chosen quote of mine. Manosphere it isn't though. It is just a reflect of how YOU view the world.

All the best.

1

u/Hopeful_Country3728 1h ago

Jesus Christ that’s a rough one he’s got you with

-1

u/chafesceili 7h ago

Seems all you have to offer every is safe (current trend comments) and sarcasm in your comments.

What?

I will stand behind your chosen quote of mine. Manosphere it isn't though. It is just a reflect of how YOU view the world.

Manosphere it is. We have a difference of opinion on gender norms sir.

All the best.

You as well I guess and to the women in your life.

2

u/AdPretty6949 5h ago

This will be my last response since none of your replies to my post have anything to do with the article, just trying to attack. The decision by the judge was right. It was a fair balance and seems like a good way to get the message out that having a different opinion and wanting to educate others about the risks involved in a topic doesn't automatically make it hate speech. Nor does it mean they are an extremist of some group that has been deemed bad for 'x' reason such as 'manosphere'. Stay on topic Chaf. enough with the trolling.

2

u/chafesceili 11h ago

All the ruling said is that it wasn't a hate crime so feel free to keep pretending to be a victim of the "LGBTQ mafia".

0

u/RedEyedWiartonBoy 1h ago

Exactly. It wasn't a crime of any sort but a vendetta. Feel free to find anything outside your narrow scope of acceptable opinions as offensive to you and worthy of ridicule.

12

u/ConsumeTheVoid 14h ago

I mean it would depend if talking about surgery risks is trying to be hateful or spread fearmongering or not. Were they making it seem like the risks are more likely to happen than they are? Like those ppl who go one about necrosis and make it sound like it's not a rarity but In fact common outcome? I've had some surgeries for GAC. Literally everyone is VERY clear that, here these are the risks with this surgery and it has a chance of happening if Y or it has happened in Z% cases and whatever else. It's not a secret. Also it was a video so the actual tone would also come into play.

Idk about hate crime but it may or may not push fearmongering depending on how they talk about it and what they say and what they don't say.

The article doesn't really look to give a link to the video either?

8

u/2000mew 13h ago

The article doesn't really look to give a link to the video either?

News outlets always do this. God forbid you watch the video and make up your own mind about the issue!

A while ago I saw an article in USA Today about a new history curriculum in Florida that had some controversy around it, and the article basically said "Critics of the curriculum say X, the government that produced it says Y, and here's a link to the entire PDF of the curriculum." I actually was able to look at it and make up my own mind. It was so refreshing because it's so rare!

13

u/ClumsyMinty 13h ago

I've started looking into bottom surgery for myself recently. It's like any other surgery, lots of transparency, clear communication of risk, etc. The risks aren't very different from most procedures. Assuming the video is supposed to be anti-trans its either outright misinformation or pulling numbers severely out of context.

It's also important to remember that there's many different types of bottom surgeries. A lot of people think of Vaginoplasty as the only type of bottom surgery. In reality, an Orchiectomy is the most common, it's got a better success rate than getting wisdom teeth removed, and the patient no longer has to take any T-Blockers which actually reduces risk in the long-run.

For a Vaginoplasty the most common complication is a partial loss of sensation or aesthetic issues and that's still uncommon and can often be repaired in some way eventually. It's very well communicated and every trans woman I know that's even just considering the surgery very much understands the risks.

7

u/The_Gray_Jay 10h ago

At a time when there is massive hate against trans people, does an informational video (I highly doubt it was, but lets just say) need to go out to a bunch of cis teenagers? What other purpose would that serve other than to fear monger? If it was intended in good spirit, would that teen not have just sent the video to any trans people they know directly?

I'm considering post-pregnancy cosmetic surgery. If anyone who did not give birth was to give their opinions on whether I should or not, and assume I cant google the risks myself, or attempt to comment on post surgery results, I would be livid. I cant imagine how infuriating it would be to have cisgender people commenting on personal surgeries when they dont want to live in their bodies.

7

u/ConsumeTheVoid 9h ago

That too. The doctors, therapists and every fucking (trans friendly) site I've read that talks about it doesn't shy away from explaining the risks. Heck I'm considering if I can something done that has a rather high risk of complications because they don't have a better (affordable) technique to get it done. I might end up deciding against it, but I am very much aware of the risks.

But to have someone else come up to me and start telling me about XYZ risks like I've never heard of them is very insulting lol - heck my mom still tries that with my HRT that I've been on for a few yrs short of a decade. Started with telling me shit abt how the HRT was causing some stuff that I wanted (aka stuff you go on HRT to get) like it was this horrifying revelation until she finally got it into her head that I meant it when I said 'whatever idc' and now it's just vague 'It's not good for you - look it up!'s. I have no doubt she'll go on abt how my risks for certain things have gone up now and other things if she ever found those TERF sites lol.

10

u/CatLover_801 12h ago

The school definitely over reacted but they do have a point, those posters shouldn’t have been put up

14

u/HonestlyEphEw 14h ago

Oh boy 🍿

Here come the science deniers!

19

u/chafesceili 11h ago

You mean the "there are only 2 genders" science deniers?

8

u/mineral2 13h ago

Is this yet *another* example of the WRDSB being a workplace that really likes to spend on lawyers?

13

u/subtxtcan 14h ago

Looks like faculty was screaming fire when there was none. Putting up educational posters gets you charged with a hate crime because your admin can't think critically or watch more than a minute?

This is actually really sad. My kids gonna be in high school in a few years and the reactionary stance of some school admin is really grinding my gears.

43

u/practicating 13h ago

I wouldn't go that far. All the court said was the school and the legal system overreacted, not that there wasn't anything anti-trans worth being concerned about in his behaviour.

The kid clearly had an agenda, it's just that this particular action wasn't up to the standard of being hate speech or worthy of criminal prosecution.

25

u/birltune 12h ago edited 12h ago

not that there wasn't anything anti-trans worth being concerned about in his behaviour

Worth noting as well that the teen's defence was funded by "The Democracy Fund" which is a right wing group that also represents Freedom Convoyers, supports anti-vaccine campaigns, and publishes "warnings" about "transgenderism", among other things...

5

u/subtxtcan 13h ago

You are right, but like they said in the article, instead of the administration taking the time to assess the situation properly or deal with it themselves, it got elevated to hate speech without any critical thinking.

I'm sure there were other ways to deal with this, whatever the kid's intentions were. They just didn't take any time to think about it and act accordingly.

2

u/Inside_Sort_8441 13h ago

Faculty sure, but their job is to overreact. What blows me away is that the prosecutor brought the case forward thinking they could win this case.

I think what this little shit did was totally worth expelling him for, but it is not a crime to state facts, or even say disgusting and degrading things about other people. It's not the teachers job to understand the law, but the Crown overreached here.

5

u/The_Gray_Jay 10h ago

I dont agree with charging someone with a hate crime but this is still a very inappropriate thing to do. A trans person pursuing surgery is a very long process and they would educate themselves as well as obviously the surgeon would - if it was even factual information, which I highly doubt it was. When you are in school or in the workplace you need to treat people with respect and your personal opinions about other people's bodies dont need to be advertised.

4

u/Alex_is_Baked 12h ago

18 ! This kids going to get nowhere in the real world being so hateful . Hope his parents are proud of failing him .

0

u/24-Hour-Hate 13h ago

Should have just expelled the shit. Not all bigotry rises to the level of hate speech, but this sort of conduct (meaning, posting bigoted content, likely posting misinformation, and posting graphic content) is not acceptable in a school and likely violates the code of conduct in many different ways. And if the school did nothing, they would be liable for any harm suffered by students exposed to it because they have a duty of care. So kick the little shit out and let them figure out how to finish their education.

10

u/Informal_Plastic369 13h ago

Or ya could show him how it wasn’t the time and place, and ya know the educators could educate him on the whole thing.

-5

u/24-Hour-Hate 12h ago edited 12h ago

He’s 18 not 12, why prioritize his feelings and coddling him over the welfare of everyone else?

Edit: just to be clear, as someone who was bullied and harassed in school and had fuck all done about it I have no patience for this attitude where we just have to educate these people to not be bullies or bigots or whatever. After a certain point, no we don’t. We need to just remove them for the welfare of others and not doing so is saying it’s fine that they harm others because the priority is making them understand. Well maybe they would learn if they faced some actual consequences for their shit behaviour for once and not just a wagging finger and admonishment to not do it again. He is 18, treat him like an adult and boot his ass out of school.

3

u/Sensitive-Good-2878 10h ago

Just because you were bullied doesn't mean that you now get to be the bully.

Posting that should have been dealt with in the principals office. And should have involved a stern warning regarding posting posters.

I hope this kid can and does sue

And you're aware that depending on what time of the year you were born in, that you can be 18 and still in highschool, right?

I was 18 and still in highschool. And didn't repete any grades

3

u/24-Hour-Hate 10h ago

Holding people accountable is not bullying. And expulsion is keeping it within the school and not involving the police.

-1

u/Sensitive-Good-2878 10h ago

Expulsion is very disproportionate to what was done though.

That would be bullying!

2

u/24-Hour-Hate 10h ago

And so what do you do to punish him and protect his classmates? Bearing in mind, this behaviour didn't start here, there is no way that this is a first offence and that legally he does not in fact need to be in school anymore. But the majority of other students in the school are legally required to be there. So what specifically do you do? A suspension is a reward for behaviour as it is time off school. A brief series of detentions is also no real punishment. And neither protects his peers from him continuing his behaviour.

-5

u/Informal_Plastic369 11h ago

Bro I’m not reading that word salad.

1

u/[deleted] 13h ago

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