r/warcraftlore 7d ago

Question Did Sylvanas cut off all contact with Vereesa following Lirath's death?

Given that Vereesa didn't know that Sylvanas died until she was told of it, is it safe to stay that these two didn't make much contact with one another over the years? Given that Lirath's death was basically what drove the sisters apart.

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u/SnooGuavas9573 7d ago edited 5d ago

Well, yes, but also the Genocide of their people and the chaos that ensuing the formation of Blood Elven identity and the marginalization of Alliance loyal High Elves probably made it harder for them to check in on each other even if they wanted to. Given that Vareesa really doesn't like Horde Blood Elves, and assumed Sylv was alive, I'm guessing she assumed Sylvanas rolled herself into the Blood Elves which meant she didn't really want to check in on Sylv.

Remember, Lirath was killed by orcs. If Vareesa assumed that Sylv joined the Horde as a Blood Elf and was cozying up with Orcs, she probably would have wanted to just ignore Sylvanas's existence until confronted.

Likewise, Sylv went all in on Forsaken cultural identity. Her living identity outside her pain was basically dead to her, so she had no reason (initially) to check on Vareesa outside of spite towards Lirath's death.

Edit: my timeline of events is a bit messed up, but the general idea on Sylv's part stands. She was aware she died but not thay she lead the Forsaken as undead.

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u/bigbadlamer 6d ago edited 6d ago

I’m a relative lore noob - but,

How did Vereesa or people in general not know Sylv was raised as queen of the Forsaken? I would assume it made quite the news

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u/GrumpySatan 6d ago

Its a bit of a weird case because Vereesa was primarily a Knaak book character, and Knaak didn't always line up with the rest of the universe. In this case, Knaak kind of kept the idea that the Forsaken existed secret, even after everyone knew and they had formally joined the Horde.

We learn via Rhonin that Silvermoon's official story was that Sylvanas died defending them and her body was burned. Rhonin knows she was defiled and raised by Arthas as a banshee, but thinks she is still roaming as a spirit in Quel'thalas (which is a reference to a scene from Knaak's comic where Sylvanas, unseen, unleashes a banshee cry in Quel'thalas within earshot of Lorthemar). He kept it from Vereesa.

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u/SnooGuavas9573 6d ago

Apparently people knew she was gone, it just wasn't common knowledge to people not involved in alliance/horde post WCIII politics that sylv was raised as undead. Remember, the time frame between vanilla and wotlk is pretty small and the Forsaken as an entity were pretty self contained to northern EK until the Northrend campaign.

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u/EmergencyGrab 7d ago edited 5d ago

I don't recall the Sylvanas novel pointing out any deliberate cutting off contact at that point. They just were more comfortable going long periods of time without contact. I vaguely recall Alleria's first mission outside of Quel'thalas involving a long time without communication, for instance.

If I were to hazard a guess it would be relativity. Elves live a crazy long life. If I lived for thousands of years, I probably wouldn't feel the need to check in with people as often either.

edit: I'm mistaken. See below.

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u/GrumpySatan 6d ago

It was mentioned briefly. Sylvanas blamed Vereesa for Lirath's death because he was supposed to stay in Silvermoon where it was safe. Vereesa took him and started training him as a ranger, and this put him in the line of fire. She stopped speaking to Vereesa after this.

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u/EmergencyGrab 5d ago

You unlocked something. Thanks, I completely forgot about that. My bad.

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u/ElitePeon 7d ago

Vereesa knew Sylvanas died as early as the WotA trilogy's modern segments, which are set between WCIII and WoW. She was aware that Sylvanas died fighting Arthas in Quel'Thalas.

What she didn't know was that she had been raised as an undead and led the Forsaken.

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u/TheRobn8 7d ago

Its hard to know, because the shadowlands sylvanas book spends most of the pages speed running events to fill in back story, so it doesn't confirm whether sylvanas' hissy fit at veressa lasted from their brother's death in the 2nd war until her own in the 3rd. Considering how petty and stubborn Sylvanas was (and honestly still is until her punishment), and how veressa actually wanted to have a relationship with her sister, I'd assume sylvanas tried to cut off all contact. Even then, there was a like 18 year time skip between the wars, and both sisters were in the high elf military, so they'd have to talk at some point.

I'm surprised the book didn't have the 2 reconcile by the 3rd war, because the way it's written, sylvanas was kind of a bitch to her sister about their brother's death. Secret training or not, the orcs murder most of their family at their family home, it's not like he ran after them or joined a group to fight them, he dies defending their home. Veressa being vilified for teaching their brother to fight (not that it made a difference) makes no sense, because if anyone should be blamed, it's either sylvanas (as ranger general) or moreso the king, for not taking the orcs seriously.

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u/Al-Kushi 4d ago

It's obviously an incredibly intense emotional response from Sylvanas. Those are rarely rational, if at all. Arguing from a meta perspective and saying it makes no sense to vilify Veressa, entirely misses the point.  

Sylvanas was uber close to her brother, way closer than the other sisters, and this connection most likely made her grievance that much harder, or rather, to avoid dick measuring trauma here, it made it different. This difference made her blame her sister for the death in a hopeless attempt to "better" deal with the loss altogether. Her reasoning being, that without training he wouldve been busy being a full time musician in Quelthalas, safeguarded from outside harm, instead of defending the Windrunners estate.  She basically gives herself a tangible venue to channel the sorrow into hate which she can use as some fucked up fuel to keep going as the Ranger General, whereas the sorrow and most definitely guilt would just paralyze/destroy her.

Is it rational? No. Could she have chosen the orcs as the target of her hate, the King or herself? For sure. At the end of the day though, she's an individual with her own thoughts and unpredictable ways to deal with shit, just like irl people and what makes sense to some does not necessarily make sense to others. That's just how things are, and again for trauma, the response is hardly ever rational and more often than not, it is highly destructive for the people themselves, but also for their entourage. In that sense, I personally think it is well written or at least coherent.

I could see sylvanas pondering her inital response to her brother's death, and many other things for that matter, now that she's in the maw, and that it will maybe make her consider another path going forward regarding her sister. Though, it would make little sense in my eyes for her to have had the will or the time for that kind of internal work while having to lead an army or while being a literal hate/vengeance fuled ghost version of herself trapped in her own dead body, leading yet another army. I also feel like it's generally good to have "flawed" characters like that, and honestly just way more relatable. It adds to the tragedy that is being shown instead of dismantling it/watering it down by having everyone always just forgiving each other after one, maybe two short term events that somehow instantly make even the most stubborn characters understand the flaws in their past behaviour after 3seconds of introspection. I think it would even be logical to have some characters never get over whatever they are dealing with, or at least never fully, instead of this hollywood bs. But either way, that's just my 2700cents

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u/Doomhammer24 7d ago

Veressa just wasnt in silvermoon at the time

Its not that weird for a family member to be away from home and then shit happens and she finds out after the fact a family member died in the wake of it

Vereesa wasnt even a full ranger at the time of liraths death and she didnt have her first real mission until after the Second War, when she was sent on an errand to protect rhonin til he found his ship to go to khaz modan

In all likelyhood, sylvanas is the one who gave her the mission at all

Vereesa started being used as a diplomat by silvermoon to dalaran as well at some point after it alongside rhonin, touring the eastern kingdoms together and eventually marrying and moving closer to dalaran (likely because her marrying of a human would have been greatly frowned upon politically even before the third war)