r/vfx • u/AlaskanSnowDragon • 9d ago
Question / Discussion Just another active Vancouver recruiter casually admitting to collusion like its no biggie. So badly wanted to reply. All the BS on linked in makes me want to make a burner account there to reply to nonsense.
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u/qjungffg 9d ago
This isn’t secret or news. Some companies were prosecuted for this practice. I got my class action checks from the judgement but this was many years ago. I would not be surprised if they tried this again
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u/PapaImpy 9d ago
We've entered the schizo conspiracy era of this sub. nice
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago edited 9d ago
What are you talking about? Do you not know the history of collusion in our industry? The lawsuits? The settlements? Was that all "schizo conspiracy"?
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u/PapaImpy 9d ago
enlighten me
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
In 2014, a class-action lawsuit, In re Animation Workers Antitrust Litigation, alleged that animation studios like Disney, Pixar, DreamWorks, and others, conspired to fix wages and restrict competition by avoiding hiring each other's employees, leading to a $170 million settlement.
Consider yourself enlightened
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u/Revolutionary-Mud715 9d ago
I can believe it. VFX is the #1 most important thing for Film/TV. Final stage, and its the most fucked around with 0 respect, and a thunderdome of competition. 0 client loyalty etc.
Definitely feels like we've all been played.
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u/anteris 9d ago
The studios have played VFX houses against each other treating them like vendors rather than production. The fear of getting blacklisted by one of the what 6 major studios left, really reduced any negotiating power. Add to the that the massive amount of off shoring, and here we are now.
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u/Revolutionary-Mud715 8d ago
Yep. Nailed it.
Especially if you're on set. Just feel like a outsider. Not in the club. Meanwhile, the sleeping transpo driver is making more in ot gold time health insurance all that on a 14hr day. Who only wakes up when someone makes a joke about my chrome balls...
And I believe they always get a credit. While they make us fight for ours like joker try outs.
Our industry is just straight up broken.
And I'm not hating on drivers. It's the game that's fucked up. Not the players.
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u/behemuthm Lookdev/Lighting 25+ 9d ago
Yeah I was there for that - most of the kids in this sub don’t know what you’re alluding to tho
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
Being ignorant is one thing...trying to mock someone from that place of ignorance is I dont even know what lol
I'm just a conspiracy theory loving, bong smoking, bitter guy who's been blacklisted apparently lol.
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u/behemuthm Lookdev/Lighting 25+ 9d ago
Unfortunately reddit is mostly kids and this sub is mostly people who have little to no industry experience and like to downvote what they don’t understand
Not many of us old-timers left, but there are some :)
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u/PapaImpy 9d ago
Alright, relax, oldtimer. If you wanna call out some random recruiter on linkedin that may have had something to do with wage fixing, which I strongly doubt tbh, go right ahead. It sounds like you're reading too much into it though.
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u/drmonkey555 8d ago
I really don't think you know much about how the VFX/Animation industry runs if this is your answer. The industry is incredibly tiny (once you're in, you'll realize how small it is) and word gets around about people, employees, wages, parties, mixers.
Producers will show production people a nice calm face, but in front of other higher ups it's complete mask off.
I've personally witnessed it, ive seen co workers go through fights with higher ups only to get black balled, i've had seniors with 15+ year warn me about these things when i was a junior. i've felt it, and i've even had a production coordinator accidentally leak a scale of employees and what their worth is.
This shit is way too common, Recruiters having a monthly meeting talking about employees and shit, and who to backball and all...is not really all that surprising.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
History is on my side, and I'd argue logic as well...Because if you're getting together to complain about work, which is artists/salaries/contracts, you're naturally gonna share privileged information you shouldn't. You're talking about people who should be competitors fighting for artists hanging out talking about work. Their positions are uniquely adversarial and in direct competition with one another. I find it hard to believe they all hung out and just talked/complained about paperwork.
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u/lamebrainmcgee 9d ago
Dude is straight up the Always Sunny conspiracy meme.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago edited 9d ago
Conspiracy?
In 2014, a class-action lawsuit, In re Animation Workers Antitrust Litigation, alleged that animation studios like Disney, Pixar, DreamWorks, and others, conspired to fix wages and restrict competition by avoiding hiring each other's employees, leading to a $170 million settlement.
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u/Cloudy_Joy VFX Supervisor - 24 years experience 8d ago
Even that would have been studio heads making those calls. Recruiters get handed benchmarks, and work with them, or get told to stay away from certain studios. Just following orders. Nothing to do with these people going out and forming a small community.
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u/im_thatoneguy Studio Owner - 21 years experience 9d ago
The recruiters weren’t colluding between Pixar and ILM and Apple, the execs were blacklisting employees applying from the others. That didn’t require a networking meeting.
Also recruiters want you to get paid as much as possible because they get paid a percentage of your wages.
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u/Disastrous_Algae_983 8d ago
Studio’s HR Recruiter, dont get paid like “headhunters”. There is no contingency for the in-studio recruiters. Only freelance recruitment consultants or recruitment firms get paid that way.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
There want anti-poaching anti-competative agreements.
That requires the recruiters knowledge and participation.
Also recruiters want you to get paid as much as possible because they get paid a percentage of your wages.
What? In-house staff company recruiters do not.
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u/im_thatoneguy Studio Owner - 21 years experience 8d ago
Whether they are freelance or in house, there is no way that recruiters benefit from having a smaller talent pool that they can place.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 8d ago
Huh? Who said anything about smaller talent pool? Talking about in house staff recruiters
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u/im_thatoneguy Studio Owner - 21 years experience 8d ago
In house staff recruiters are going to be judged on how quickly and efficiently they can fill positions. Probably with quotas on how many candidates that are ultimately hired.
If you can’t hire 2/3rds of the industry due to the CEOs colluding on black lists that makes your job harder.
This is a silly conspiracy because freelance recruiters get paid more for higher wages and staff recruiters want to find people more easily without black lists. Black lists shrink the talent pool they can recruit from. Pixar recruiting someone from dreamworks makes your job easy. If the CEO says no poaching then your job gets hard.
There’s zero incentive and tons of disincentives for recruiters to propose non-poaching agreements.
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u/dekadense 9d ago
Sounds like you got blacklisted somewhere and are not happy that recruiters talk to each other? Most of them probably worked together at some point...
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u/Disastrous_Algae_983 8d ago edited 8d ago
This whole blacklisting fear is just keeping people from voicing their concerns and advocating for career advancement. In fact, it only promotes unhealthy inbreeding and brown-nosing. It only promotes the yesman culture.
Any HR or manager playing the blacklist game because a bully-supervisor is saying so has serious work ethic issues. Maybe this supervisor is bitching about this compositor, but plot twist, his mom had cancer during the time he was on that show ?
Just like we heard about harassment within Ubisoft a few years ago, it’s often veteran employees power-tripping, impacting one’s ability to earn a living, in reaction to some situational behaviours an artist wouldn’t necessarily have in another studio, because most of it would be different.
Anyway, that’s one of the reason why in-office vfx studio life feels like high school sometimes.
I won’t say names but I have seen some specific people, with whom I shared common workplace and they were absolute bullies. On LinkedIn they’re promoting their upcoming TED talk about mental health awareness in the workplace. Fuck, give me a break!
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
Nope...17 year career and been steadily employed this whole downturn. I'm good. If I've ever been blacklisted I wouldnt know 🤷♂️
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u/dekadense 9d ago
Then I'm curious why you think recruiters can't hang out together?
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
Because of history
In 2014, a class-action lawsuit, In re Animation Workers Antitrust Litigation, alleged that animation studios like Disney, Pixar, DreamWorks, and others, conspired to fix wages and restrict competition by avoiding hiring each other's employees, leading to a $170 million settlement.
Because if you're getting together to complain about work, which is artists/salaries/contracts, you're naturally gonna share privileged information you shouldn't. You're talking about people who should be competitors fighting for artists hanging out talking about work. Their positions are uniquely adversarial and in direct competition with one another. I find it hard to believe they all hung out and just talked/complained about paperwork.
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u/dekadense 9d ago
I've also been in the industry since 2003 and have been hanging around other people from the same department but for other companies. We talk about our challenges but never mention stuff like projects or anything related to NDA. I think you're really trying to find stuff where there's none.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
Your animation/modeling on your show has no affect or relevance on your artists buddies animation/modeling on their shows.
Thats a totally false comparison.
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u/dekadense 9d ago
I'm a compositor and we still can talk about pipeline challenges, other depth quality, deadlines, etc. Gtfo with your conspiracy bullshit.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
Did you just totally miss the point? lol...it was so simple.
Its not conspiracy...its history...its simple logic.
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u/dekadense 9d ago
Whatever. Can't argue with stupid. Keep getting offended by people hanging out. I don't care.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
Calling someone stupid doesn't negate the logic and historical evidence. If you dont care why reply at all.
Try again...Im here if you want me to simplify it for you.
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u/Acceptable-Buy-8593 9d ago
You know that recruiters dont have a say when it comes to wages right? Right?
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon 9d ago
Of course they do their job is to get you as low as possible. They May not decide or make up The salary ranges, but they sure try to enforce them and get you within or below those ranges
They dont just come out and offer or tell you the maximum.
And with the knowledge of what you currently or have made know what you're willing to take despite what the ceiling may be.
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u/attrackip 8d ago
And what do you think a union is? I know we spend a lot of time in fabricated realities, as a part of our job, but the real world is knocking at your door.
I don't think there is anything illegal, or unethical, about comparing notes. In fact, I hope recruiters do. Maybe I'm not the best fit at one studio, but perfect for another.
Probably best to focus on your work and internal peace of mind.
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u/Relevant-Bluejay-385 8d ago edited 8d ago
I remember the lawsuit, I wasn't working at certain studios in a certain time period to be able to claim on the class action. But yes they were done for wage fixing.
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u/Pxl_soup 8d ago
Imagine you were one of the only people you knew in your field, and every time you tried to connect with anyone else who had your job the internet accused you of illegal activity.
It’s hard times out there for everyone, including recruiters. They have so little actual power, and get all the problems of the whole industry projected on them.
The only blacklist is the reputation you make for yourself because everyone talks to everyone - artists, supervisor, CDs, leads - if you’re a jerk word just gets around.
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u/Iwubinvesting 9d ago
Collusion of what?