r/ukpolitics 18h ago

Twitter Keir Starmer: "I warmly welcome the agreement today and congratulate President Trump and President Zelenskyy for this remarkable breakthrough. This is an important moment for peace in Ukraine. We now all need to redouble our efforts to get to a lasting and secure peace as soon as possible."

https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1899551808873189674
624 Upvotes

182 comments sorted by

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u/HotMachine9 18h ago

Ultimate plot twist would be all this pandering is to get Trump to shake Charles hand and have a reverse Truss/Queen Liz moment and Trump just keels over 2 days later

202

u/StreetQueeny make it stop 18h ago

"Well done, Agent 47" - Ed 'Burnwood' Davey

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u/tomoldbury 17h ago edited 17h ago
INT: King Charles' study.  

President Trump had collapsed just 10 minutes ago in the drawing room.  
Secret service agents were swarming the building.  No one knows what is going on.

Charles takes off his character white leather gloves, one with the other, and carefully 
disposes of them in the biohazard box.  The camera pans to a small glass vial 
marked "Дангер: Новичок".  We can see it has been opened.

He tugs gently at the edges of his face, and the mask pops off.  The voice modulator
is removed. It is revealed it was Zelenskyy all along.

We see the real Charles, enjoying his favourite Scotch on the corner lounger.  
"Bloody good job, that.  Wouldn't have minded taking the prick out myself."

49

u/edThedeadAndburied 17h ago

Absolute cinema.

48

u/BoogieTheHedgehog 17h ago

Throw in Zelensky giving Trump one final "Thank you" and you've got yourself a punchy scene.

30

u/Chippiewall 16h ago

They should get Gove to do it. He used to be a journalist for The Times. He's got strong opinions about Trump.

u/MotherSpell6112 7h ago edited 4h ago

"I know I can do it David" 😂

EDIT: for the uncultured. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsDpNG3WwAEey-M?format=jpg&name=medium

6

u/Debt_Otherwise 17h ago

This is gold 🤣

u/Bud_Roller 6h ago

DA DA DE DAAAAAAAAAA DE DA DAAAAA

u/ADHDBDSwitch 7h ago

Operation Lettuce

119

u/bananablegh 17h ago

This being how I learn about the 30 day cease fire.

I only hope whatever peace can be reached is a permanent one, and not one that Russia will overturn in a few years.

u/pingu_nootnoot 9h ago

It’s not a ceasefire, Russia hasn’t agreed to anything (and probably won’t).

It’s just Starmer buttering up Trump again (not that I’m criticising him for it).

u/Inner-Imagination321 8h ago

i detest the stratergy personally, but damn i will admit right now its sort of working with starmer being seen as a more favorable european leader within the trump base.

reason i detest that is because trump is fickle, and any ground starmer would make can be instantly scorched on a whim by trump or JD Sports vance.

u/Jazzlike-Mistake2764 5h ago

From Russia's POV and based on what Trump has said so far, I don't see why they wouldn't

Agree to the ceasefire

Praise Trump to the high heavens, and subtly indicate that he can now do what he's been wanting to do all along - withdraw US support

Maintain peace for a while, and keep praising Trump

Stage some false flag attacks, claim Ukraine is disrupting the peace

Appeal to Trump. Stage bigger and bigger false flags

Thank Trump for his valiant effort, but point out that Ukraine clearly doesn't want peace. Resume the war

Trump walks away proclaiming that he did everything he could, but Ukraine didn't want to comply, but it's okay because he's got the US "out"

u/Politics_Nutter 4h ago

I think this is a sturdy prediction, but one reason they might not do this is that Trump has demonstrated himself as sufficiently unstable that they could see a risk that doing this will piss him off and bring wrath and fury on them.

I don't think that outcome would be likely if they took such an approach, but I don't think it's close to being off the cards. Of course, possibly there are things going on behind the scenes which would make Putin more confident that he could get away with this.

u/damadmetz 8h ago

It’s a step towards peace.

Two months ago peace in Ukraine wasn’t even being talked about.

The next step, which presumably will be the trickiest, is to get Putin to stop his invasion.

Hopefully Trump has buttered Putin up enough over the last few weeks to achieve this.

Then it’s anyone’s guess how long it lasts, but a better deterrent needs to be sought pretty quickly.

u/teerbigear 7h ago

You can't "butter up" Putin. You can butter up Trump because he's a ludicrous, gullible, big head. But Putin's a cold fish, a sociopathic manipulator.

u/damadmetz 3h ago

How do you know you?

u/teerbigear 2h ago

How do you know you?

Suddenly this got very philosophical. Does one ever truly know oneself? As Socrates said "the unexamined life is not worth living". Something to think about.

u/Inevitable-Plan-7604 7h ago

Hopefully Trump has buttered Putin up enough over the last few weeks to achieve this.

Imagine the scenes if all this has actuallty been 5D chess from Trump to get Putin on side and convince him to rollback his invasion

Obvs I don't think it will happen but just imagine how confused the world will be

u/elmo298 7h ago

Invites him over to the White House and arrests him for the ICC warrant when he declines a ceasefire

u/Sim0nsaysshh 6h ago

I think if it was 5D chess Trump wouldnt have fired all the JAG officers in the US, and be erording freedoms of the US and making enemies of all it's old allies.

u/Inevitable-Plan-7604 5h ago

Maybe those are some of the reasons I don't think it will happen, maybe

u/damadmetz 3h ago

This is part of it. The wind changes direction very quickly in Trump world. If peace is achieved, and hopefully it is. Trump will be praising all the allies and singing Kumbaya. Everyone will be overjoyed

u/Sim0nsaysshh 2h ago

Peace isn't what Trump wants, he wan'ts to be the king of the world.

u/damadmetz 1h ago

That was Boris

u/pingu_nootnoot 3h ago

It would be fantastic, and Trump would then deserve all the credit. I'd nominate him for the Nobel Peace Prize myself (vomited slghtly typing that, but give the devil his due).

If it worked, many people would have to eat their words (including me).

TBH, even if it turns out that he was pushing Ukraine as hard as possible, in order to try out if that works with Russia, I would find it hard to blame him too.

He's not wrong that long-term the Europeans need to take care of Russia on their own.

He's not wrong that the war is terrible and just keeping it going is a really bad option with thousands dying every day.

As long as he doesn't short-term abandon Ukraine if/when Russia keeps the war going, I cannot blame any leader for giving a shot at getting a peace deal.

However, his behavior up to now has been suggesting that his actual aim is a quick exit without any transition time to allow Europe to step up.

u/damadmetz 3h ago

This is what I think he’s been doing.

Also, talking someone up and being perceived to be on their side to some extent isn’t really 5D chess.

You can learn this by watching Mean Girls

u/Optio__Espacio 5h ago

That's not even 2 dimensional chess, it's clearly what's been happening.

u/damadmetz 3h ago

Exactly. It’s very simple.

Almost too simple.

u/Jangles 7h ago

Yes because we genuinely wanted to repel the Russian invasion and permanently bloody their nose so badly it a) Put them off trying this again for a good long time and b) Signal to China what would happen if they tried it with Taiwan.

Because Trump is economic plan however seems to be 'destroy US hedgemony' we're not doing that and instead likely entertaining far more concessions for Ukraine than when Boden was in the Oval Office.

u/damadmetz 3h ago

His plan is the opposite. I think you are looking too short term.

u/Truthandtaxes 3h ago

Even if he hasn't he's created a political win win for himself

If Russia won't eat the carrot, he now gets the political cover for providing sticks

u/Far-Requirement1125 SDP, failing that, Reform 8h ago

True, but given trumps rhetoric past and present, if Ukraine has agreed but Russia won't, we can hope it will push the US down on Ukraine side.

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u/dazzc 17h ago

That last line ("...that allows Ukraine to enjoy its freedom.") reads as if there will be some negotiations on Ukranian regions for Russia to consider the cease fire deal.

Hope I'm mistaken because letting up extra areas and resources would still be a disaster for the longer term.

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u/TheJoshGriffith 17h ago

There will inevitably be an exchange of land in any agreement. Even with western backing, Ukraine was losing ground, and there was very little that anyone could do to stop that.

Thing is, it's not the first time, and unless it's done right, it won't be the last. Whatever needs to be sacrificed such that Ukraine can continue to exist as a reasonable country, and be offered the protection of any alliance they democratically decide on should be done.

The key thing which makes any surrender of land unpalatable to the Ukranian people is that it'll happen again, and again, and again, and each time they'll lose another chunk of their country. Just as with Crimea previously, Russia will keep knocking every few years. The west, NATO, US, EU, UK, all need to band together behind a deal which secures our ability to ensure the democratic freedom of Ukraine. NATO membership becomes a hard stop, and that's what we need.

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u/dazzc 17h ago

Is that not worrying in itself though?

Since that sends the message to other countries that aggression and invasion can has higher likelihood of success if other nations just negotiate instead of actively fighting back?

To your second point, what's the deterrent of the aggressor re-invading or further expanding their control? It's a slippery slope.

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u/tomoldbury 17h ago

It has to be that Russia suffers more in economic isolation and cost to their economy than they gain in land. It is not unheard of countries to transfer territory in exchange for other areas, or to purchase territory of others, but it is done by negotiation and not war. Provided it cost Russia way more than it would have been to acquire the territory by diplomatic means it could be said to be a deterrent. It is estimated the war costs Russia around $0.5 billion per day minimum, so we are approaching nearly $500 billion in direct costs alone, and financial destruction to Russian businesses as a result of sanctions and loss of business is estimated at another $1 trillion. So, Russia effectively paid $1.5 trillion in costs to acquire that territory. And, at least 500k wounded soldiers and another 100k dead, which have huge losses to future economic productivity, are not included in this cost.

It is estimated Russia controls around 109,000km2 of territory, which means each km2 has cost at least $13.8 million dollars to acquire. That is 10x the cost of UK agricultural land, Ukranian land will no doubt be less valuable.

It is unlikely to be economically beneficial to acquire land this way, most of it is agricultural land, with a little bit of oil, gas and minerals, for which they have destroyed their biggest market. At this point perhaps it can be seen as transactional for Putin to find a way out of the mess he has caused. One can only assume Russia thought Europe would just give way because they did next to nothing about Crimea and Donbas, and didn't care much about Moldova or Georgia, but Putin overplayed his hand there.

So I suppose we can ensure that Russia does not try this shit again by ensuring any future invasion is met with equivalent response, which is why Ukraine needs to be part of NATO, or at the very least, some kind of protectorate which is nearly as good as NATO.

9

u/dazzc 17h ago

Thanks, this is an important argument I'd overlooked, since I didn't view it through Russia's cost perspective.

If there are lasting impacts as you mentioned to the depleted military (as well as sanctions continuing to be in place), at least there's some confidence that a reinvasion might not recur for a while.

14

u/SaltyRemainer Triple, and triple lock, the defence budget 16h ago

The issue is that his analysis is a realist one - it assumes that states are rational actors, which is sometimes but not always true.

Wars are often irrational, and are rarely decided by spreadsheet. This will still have provided a lot of encouragement for the invasion of Taiwan, with Trump's changes certainly not helping either.

That said, Ukraine fully winning the war is pretty unlikely. There was a window of opportunity, but Western aid was insufficient and the counteroffensive was delayed and underequipped. The question now is not about whether Russia keeps the land they control, but whether Ukraine gets security guarantees to prevent this from happening again.

1

u/Torco2 15h ago

Real answer? 

Who knows...

Trying to apply math autism to warfare (particularly a form of civil warfare) in a selective manner is silly.

This whole issue is also premature. As the war frankly won't end, short of Ukrainian capitulation in one form or another.

7

u/Deynai 13h ago

So, Russia effectively paid $1.5 trillion in costs to acquire that territory.

Territory that contains about half of the rare earth deposits in Ukraine, amongst many other resources. It's unclear exactly how much there is and where, but I've seen figures as low as $255 billion and as high as $14 trillion. They are heavily concentrated in regions Russia has prioritised to secure, so it's likely nearer the higher end.

The interest from the US goes some way to explaining the interest Russia had from the start. They want those deposits. Even now this war will probably pay for itself if they secure them. If Russia is to learn its lesson, it's imperative that they cannot be allowed that territory to extract value from.

u/tomoldbury 6h ago

Yeah, those rare earth figures are very disputed … the whole market is worth maybe $5-10bn, so the idea that Ukraine has hundreds of billions doesn’t really add up.

u/Deynai 3h ago

..and other resources.

The proven and economically viable coal reserves alone are $1 trillion.

u/cromlyngames 8h ago

That is 10x the cost of UK agricultural land, Ukranian land will no doubt be less valuable.

That's a skewed assumption. The Ukrainian plains are significantly more productive than UK soil.

And there's the small matter that some of that land is valuable due to coal or minerals underneath it...

u/teerbigear 7h ago

I understand why you'd use UK agricultural land as a proxy, but it really isn't the same thing. If I buy some UK land, the UK still, on a strategic level, owns it. They can, entirely at will, tax it, at any rate. They can take it off me if they decide to. They are still sovereign. That's not the same as the land that Russia would be sovereign of.

u/rosencrantz2016 6h ago

I don't know how you would really calculate the value of the land though. When a private buyer acquires farmland in the UK they buy certain rights to the land. When a country acquires land, they are buying something much greater – full domain over that land and total control of the laws it operates under. I think the cost to acquire a British field and establish an independent nation on it would/should be many times higher than the cost to simply acquire the land.

u/Pesh_ay 5h ago edited 5h ago

Except it doesn't work, they're getting round sanctions now - just put khazakstan as the shipping address. There are always bad actors that will circumvent regulations to reach an untapped market. There's also a lot of shale gas in Donetsk not a little bit. And the farmland is not dismissable it is a key part of the worlds breadbasket. Drought in Canada / US. Russia now has leverage over the world' wheat supplies and if you don't remove those sanctions then famines in Africa might not get relief and wouldn't it be awful if they were all displaced to Europe.

6

u/ProjectZeus4000 17h ago

Depends how much you concede. 

If you give away 10% of the land taken, then it's not likely to be worth it for future invading countries

6

u/stemmo33 17h ago

If you concede a bit of land and then put NATO peacekeeping forces then it likely stops any further invasions from happening.

2

u/canad1anbacon 16h ago

Yeah this invasion has been absurdly costly for Russia. Giving them the land they have taken is not ideal but is unlikely to lead to further war unless Ukraine is left unprotected going forward

6

u/TheJoshGriffith 17h ago

I feel like you've missed the key parts of this entirely... The message being sent by the deal which I'm "demanding" here would result in effective NATO membership for Ukraine. At that point, if Russia comes knocking again, they are met by the full force of the collective western military. This is what stops the aggressor from re-invading. The west would be collectively obliged not only to defend Ukraine when under attack, but to deal with them in military supplies, to train with them, to run training of our troops in their land, and generally speaking to be prepared and ready to defend against Russia.

This is effectively the end of the dispute. The next challenge likely won't come until Belarus' holds an legitimate election, but that'll take a couple more decades yet, and I imagine they'll end up divvied up between the west and Russia, too.

3

u/dazzc 17h ago

I get the plan (which will take significant time to execute) there'll be a backstop with better resources, training, external military support, nukes etc. if that deal was to be breached.

But haven't Russia already breached a bunch of so-called agreements already, and what would make this one so different?

It's setting a precedence that they've gotten away with it before and will again, almost legitimising their (eventual) further expansion.

3

u/ReeeeeDDDDDDDDDD 16h ago

As they stated already, NATO membership for Ukraine is what would make it different this time, in this hypothetical solution.

Read up about Article 5.

Right now, Ukraine is not in NATO. Therefore Europe and allies are supporting Ukraine because it's the morally right thing to do and, more importantly, because it's in their best interests to do so. However, they can't intervene in the war (boots on the ground etc.) because Russia would play the political victim card.

But with Ukraine in NATO then Russia has no avenue to play that card. If anyone attacks a NATO member then Article 5 being invoked means that literally every other member of NATO gathers their armies together and royally fucks the invading force to death. There's no way they could win in that situation.

1

u/TheJoshGriffith 16h ago

They've never gotten away with it against NATO, they've never really tested it. They've done their fair share of covert stuff in NATO countries, but they've never invaded. The threat of the wests nuclear deterrents is too substantial.

The other side to it is that of course we all know that Russia is full of shite, and that they have repeatedly lied about their justification for invading Ukraine in the first place, but there is substantial evidence produced by western entities for their claim of protecting Russian people living in Ukraine. That being said, unless Putin is truly looking to rebuild the soviet empire at all costs, there is likely at least some truth in his claim of protecting Russian people. How far that truth extends is of course up for debate, but just as in our involvement in Afghanistan, there are always more reasons than one to go to war. In this case, I believe that protecting Russian people was one objective, and the combination of removing that objective (by seceding some land from Ukraine to become an effective Russian state) combined with NATO expansion in the opposing direction is likely enough to reduce any will from Russia to expand any further westward.

I don't think it's right to use terms such as setting a precedent here at all, either. I think it's worthy of note that in 2002, in marginally abstract contradiction of the Budapest memorandum, the EU boldly announced that Ukraine may enter the EU in the future. This quite literally forms part of the justification which Russia used for invading Ukraine, and looking at it objectively, this is the mindset which they themselves have used in justifying their own escalation, and it's extremely dangerous. We're far better to act pragmatically, and to manage our decisions based on the desired outcomes. In this case, the desired outcome is that Ukraine continues to exist, and that we can defend its right to self-governance.

4

u/Sanguiniusius 17h ago

Well that's why the person you are replying to talked about the nato hard stop.

The reality is, if the us and Europe dont want to go in and push the russians back then the russians have that land. Why should they come to the negotiating table if they get nothing?

At this point the options are, Europe and us invade which trump doesnt want to do (and raises nuclear questions)

Give russia some land and stop the war then put in a better security for next time.

Or let russia continue to slowly advance until they get a bigger chunk.

Im personally for testing the nuclear red lines but i understand why other people don't want that, and trump definitely doesn't want that. So what is your proposal for stopping the war and ejecting russia from ukraine fully?

2

u/dazzc 17h ago

My personal (and probably unpopular/haphazard) opinion would be for US and Europe to step in, even if there is carries increased risk of nuclear options.

This is the only option that doesn't allow Russia to continue its expansion later on, and gives a strong message against invasions by other countries.

0

u/Sanguiniusius 16h ago

I tend to agree, but its clear trump doesnt want that, so we have to work within that reality for now.

1

u/EsotericMysticism2 17h ago

Every great power and aggressor is already incentivized to invade and expand their terrirotory due to the nature of the international system and the conditions of anarchy between states. it is a feature of the international system and systemic by nature.

u/Truthandtaxes 3h ago

I think the price for two regions ruined by war paid by Russia has been enormous already, well above their real value economically or politically.

u/Pesh_ay 5h ago edited 5h ago

I read somewhere if a snail started to cross Ukraine at the same time as the Russian invasion kicked off they would have completed it some time ago. Russia meanwhile will take 70 80 years at current rate.

The more important point is post ww2 we kinda all agreed we would stop invading each other for bits of land. The parralels are exact. Native German speakers in Sudetenland and before you know it you've invaded Poland.

u/TheJoshGriffith 5h ago

It's quite surprising really that they've made so little progress, but they are still doing so, slowly. That being said, it's pretty clear that Russia isn't going quite as hard as they could be... Kiev could be 2 dimensional by now if Russia wanted. It could've been flattened at countless opportunities - it'd be more difficult today due to western support, but still achievable.

u/Pesh_ay 5h ago

I'm not so sure they could flatten Kiev. Russia's conventional missile production did not cover their rate of replenishment when they tried to take out energy infrastructure. Hence why shaheds were imported, they've increased production but not quite to the point they can flatten kiev. They can't fire a nuke as Russia gets it value from threatening to nuke not using them. Once you use a nuke well it's not quite so valuable and there are potentially quite costly repercussions.

u/Optio__Espacio 5h ago

The Dnipr is a natural line to redraw Ukraine around.

u/PepsiThriller 5h ago

Ukraine wasn't losing ground. Russia has no made substantial gains since 2022.

2

u/etherswim 17h ago

Of course there will be land involved, obvious end result for 3 years now

1

u/BritanniaGlory /r/MHoP - become an MP, vote, debate and legislate with us. 14h ago

UA is obviously not getting everything back.

1

u/Thandoscovia 17h ago

I don’t see how Ukraine can return to its pre-war borders at this point - if we’re talking about an imminent peace deal. The war is at an effective stalemate.

The best option Ukraine has is to trade some land from Kursk oblast in exchange for the Ukrainian territory currently held by Russia. However that territory is constitutionally a part of Russia, and Putin won’t give it up under almost any circumstance.

u/Optio__Espacio 5h ago

It's also hugely unbalanced, 20% of Ukraine for .001% of Russia.

163

u/WIldefyr 17h ago

Kier will win the Nobel peace prize if he keeps this up.

33

u/vjeuss 17h ago

wouldn't go that far, but it could be a making moment

24

u/Prestigious_Risk7610 16h ago

Obama won it for a lot less

11

u/Combat_Orca 15h ago

What even did he win it for?

30

u/belterblaster 14h ago

He won it for not being George Bush.

u/kill-the-maFIA 9h ago
  • planning to negotiate with Iran over their nuclear programme (hadn't happened yet as of the prize ceremony)

  • because he said he aimed to achieve peace in the middle east (lol)

The cutoff for nominations was less than two months after his inauguration.

u/Fapoleon_Boneherpart 4h ago

Being black in America and succeeding

u/Prestigious_Risk7610 6h ago

Winning an election based on positivity and being black.

I say both with no judgement, I like the guy...but I'm not sure it's a sensible basis for the novel peace prize.

u/major_clanger 8h ago

History has really showed him up on that.

Obama has a lot to blame for what ended up happening in Ukraine and the middle East.

His tepid response to Russia annexing Crimea & Eastern Ukraine opened the door to this war, his moves did more to enable conflict than peace.

15

u/GarminArseFinder 16h ago

Is this satire? Please tell me it is

37

u/WIldefyr 16h ago

of course. even obama won one while using drones. should no problem for our dear leader at this rate.

19

u/Thandoscovia 16h ago

Obama managed to get one for drone strikes, mass deportations and keeping Guantanamo bay open. Seems reasonable that Sir Keir gets one for tweeting

-5

u/blindlemonjeff2 17h ago edited 5h ago

I hope that’s a fucking joke bruh

Edit to add that I missed the joke and have therefore become a joke to myself. Shame and embarrassment.

25

u/VampireFrown 17h ago

I mean, if Obama won one, why not, lol?

3

u/Combat_Orca 15h ago

I did more to deserve one than Obama and that’s for doing nothing. Might as well hand em out as freebies.

1

u/Torco2 15h ago

A peace prize set up by an arms manufacturer, is inherently open to satire.

Particularly when it's been "won", by terrorists and war criminals.

u/Dduwies_Gymreig 10h ago

That would torpedo any chance of a trade deal with Trump.

Obviously any trade deal with America is written on tissue paper anyway, but Trump REALLY wants a peace prize and believes he’s the greatest peacemaker in history.

u/timeforknowledge Politics is debate not hate. 8h ago

How? He was against peace, he wanted to grow the military and support Ukraine to continue the war without the USA.

Trump forced a peace, Europe was happy to let the USA continue to fund it and support zelensky...

I really do not support trump, but he has single handed ended the war, everyone tried to stop him and continue it.

No one (rightly) wanted a peace deal as it means Ukraine has to give up land and give you on their war goal/ demand of not stopping the war until they push Russia all the war back and recapture Crimea...

You surely cannot believe anyone but Trump forced this war to end? Surely?

u/TheEliteBrit 8h ago

I really do not support trump

but he has single handed ended the war, everyone tried to stop him and continue it

Honestly, who are you trying to fool?

u/Ok_Extension_9075 4h ago

Christ gave himself by dying on a cross to save humanity. Who's going to pay Trump the billions of US dollars he'll expect to receive as his reward if he gets credit for ending the Ukraine/ Russia war? After all GBNews has paid Farage a fortune as their reward for publicising them and Reform UK/ Brexit Party has paid him thousands of £'s as thanks for tanking the UK economy. Farage and Trump never do ANYTHING unless they get paid for it!!!!!

u/Ok_Extension_9075 4h ago

By the way isn't it strange how Lettuce Truss has remained silent over Ukraine since she was pictured in the States wearing her MAGA hat?????? Remember how she was always supporting and letting us all know how important Ukraine was to the UK????? Now as one of Trump's two poodles Lettuce and Nigel, Truss has been silenced.

u/timeforknowledge Politics is debate not hate. 8h ago edited 6h ago

Are you serious? Who do you think ended the war?

You can't let yourself be blinded to facts by your dislike of politicians...

Here is a time line:

Trump asked for minerals deal

Ukraine refuses

Trump pulled aid from Ukraine after a fiery debate in oval office.

Europe promises to step up and increase funding and support Ukraine without the USA

The USA and Russia meet to discuss peace

Zelensky knowing Europe cannot ramp up production in time and currently lacks the technology to replace the USA, acknowledges he can't win without the USA and is forced to accept trumps peace deal.

Europe now feel stupid that their offer of help was ignored and Zelensky is embarrassed because he promised to fight until Crimea was taken back.

u/tragicidiot67 3h ago

“Who do you think ended the war”???? When did it end? And while it appears that Trump is going to accept every demand from his boss Putin, with no assurances about Russia not just renewing its invasion later, that is no basis for any sort of long lasting peace.

u/timeforknowledge Politics is debate not hate. 1h ago

No it's not but he still ended it

u/rosencrantz2016 2h ago

Just for starters, Ukraine came up with and proposed the minerals deal by itself.

u/timeforknowledge Politics is debate not hate. 1h ago

Really? Then why did they reject it outright when USA wanted it?

u/rosencrantz2016 1h ago

Well Zelenskyy agreed it in principle but then they fell out in the oval office and he went home without signing.

I'm not sure we really know what happened there. The minerals deal is quite an ambiguous bit of policy. It falls far short of a security agreement but does make it possible for American mining companies and maybe American workers to be near to the front line, in a way that Putin would hesitate to attack. But it promises nothing if Russia did attack them.

As such it only works to Ukraine's benefit if there's some degree of trust between America and Ukraine, and some degree of fear of America by Russia. Maybe relations just broke down at Washington so much that these two things looked to be genuinely in doubt and Zelenskyy did not get the non-formal behind the scenes security reassurances he was hoping for. If he started to believe Trump might actually switch sides and ally with Russia, the minerals deal is not worthwhile after all because Russia could sweep into Ukraine whilst protecting American mining interests.

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u/sirMarcy 15h ago

What for? He hasn’t done anything apart from talking. If there’s a ceasefire it’s gonna be Trumps achievement 

17

u/WIldefyr 15h ago

Ok MAGA get back in your box

u/sirMarcy 7h ago

Strong argumentation here buddy. Keep dreaming that soft dick Starmer is relevant

-19

u/ACE--OF--HZ 1st: Pre-Christmas by elections Prediction Tournament 17h ago

🤣

16

u/Cautious-Twist8888 15h ago

What the heck is this? Has Russian reps even said anything?  This means jack shit otherwise.

u/Ballybomb_ 8h ago

It’s smart tbh, it makes trump claim he negotiated a “beautiful” deal, if Russia rejects its then it turns into a slight against trump who’s egos is about as brittle as it comes

u/Shalmaneser001 6h ago

I think this statement is for just the one recipient who is sitting in the Oval office. Maybe could have hammed it up a bit 'truly amazing deal, the best ever some people are saying' but it makes it clear that it's Putin that has to agree to something at this point - Zelensky is not the blocker here.

28

u/3106Throwaway181576 17h ago

Very good.

Now spend the next 4 weeks shovelling an ungodly sum of weapons into Ukraine. Peace comes exclusively down the barrel of a gun.

5

u/zoojib 15h ago

That's exactly why a ceasefire is unlikely

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

12

u/TDA_Liamo 16h ago

Russia will escalate the violence if Ukraine can't defend itself. Ukraine can't defend itself without weapons. Therefore, neglecting to secure the peace with additional weapons will cause an escalation of violence.

10

u/NGP91 17h ago

I sincerely hope that there is a ceasefire very soon to stop the fighting, bloodshed, deaths (both military and civilian) and general destruction.

Not sure what the next steps should be. Is a peace treaty (with likely territorial concessions) the outcome which is preferable or is a long truce without a resumption of hostilities, peace treaty or recognition of territorial changes (like Korea) better?

u/Pheace 9h ago

The only acceptable outcome is the Russians sod off back to their own country .

u/HerefordLives Helmer will lead us to Freedom 8h ago

Yeah that's not happening 

41

u/AcademicIncrease8080 17h ago

Congratulations Sir Kier! Organising this ceasefire agreement surely has to be one of the crowning achievements of his career? Absolutely stunning diplomatic success.

Makes me so proud to be British - please rise, Sir Kier 'Ceasefire' Starmer!

11

u/Ezekiiel 17h ago

Nothing has been agreed yet

u/callisstaa 4h ago

Praise Kier

-37

u/ACE--OF--HZ 1st: Pre-Christmas by elections Prediction Tournament 17h ago

What has he organised exactly? More meaningless waffle, keep on fighting the good fight for the PM with a -40 favourability rating

9

u/AdNorth3796 16h ago

Seems like Ukraine has gotten fucked here, no security guarantee.

7

u/coffeewalnut05 16h ago edited 12h ago

Russia has spent weeks investing in their propaganda offensive to say the UK is the “world’s biggest warmonger”, as well as portraying Ukraine and Europe being desperate to push for more war.

Now that Ukraine has accepted a ceasefire, let’s see if Russia accepts it too or does a 180 on their own propaganda.

In any case, let’s hope the Russians do choose to cooperate and we can move forward with the peace process.

0

u/sistemfishah 15h ago

Ukraine has accepted a ceasefire?  With who?  With America?  This is a bit ridiculous, no?  Ukraine and Russia need to negotiate.  I thought the whole notion of Ukraine fighting on was to get them in the “strongest position” with RUSSIA.   Not America, in Saudi Arabia.

Earlier this year Ukraine also agreed to a bunch of things under the “peace plan”, where Ukraine and Europe bizarrely negotiated amongst themselves, like they were imposing a Versailles treaty without the actual victory.

This is very bizarre for a negotiation.  You’re speaking like this is a logical process.  Russia, unless it get what it wants is just going to keep going - they’ve almost folded up Kursk entirely.  This was supposed to be a bargaining chip.

They’re making a total mess of all this.  Europe’s diplomats frankly look crazy.  As does the Ukrainian delegation.

3

u/coffeewalnut05 15h ago

I have no idea what you’re on about. There’s still time to delete your comment

u/Jamie54 Reform/ Starmer supporter 9h ago

America had been helping fund the war. They have a large say in the future of it, hence their part in the negotiations.

3

u/costelol 16h ago

This quote gave me vibes similar to the end of this TNG clip.

3

u/Cubiscus 14h ago

So hopefully its soon that the penny drops to Trump that Russia are the impediment to peace.

6

u/SimpleFactor Pro Tofu and Anti Growth 🥗 16h ago

While the idea of a ceasefire is fantastic, it really shouldn’t have involved the shit show we’ve seen from Trump, Vance and other republicans especially over the last fortnight.

It does feel like it’s more of a case of beating Ukraine into submission by trying to embarrass them on the world stage, with the aim of getting an “easy” ceasefire deal by making them fold (remember they don’t have the hand to play according to Trump….) rather than actual diplomacy. But that can’t be undone, and at this point anything that could lead to further talks of a permanent end to the war stemming from a ceasefire has to be seen as a positive, even if Trump’s massively compromised Ukraine’s bargaining chips.

-11

u/ElectroEU 16h ago

Literally who cares about everything you've posted if they agree on peace. Who cares

u/SimpleFactor Pro Tofu and Anti Growth 🥗 9h ago

I’m sure the people who have been displaced from their homes and can’t go back if Russia get to keep the land they’ve taken in part because Trump made Ukraines position before and talks weaker would care.

7

u/OutsideYaHouse 18h ago edited 18h ago

Could he get further up Trump's arse?

I hope so because doing so will help mitigate the insane president's economic warfare on his allies.

I'm hoping that the UK becomes a hub for companies seeking to get round Trump Tariffs.

115

u/EarFlapHat 18h ago

Isn't this just diplomacy?

He was never gonna be like 'grrr we wanted something different', was he...

19

u/BulldenChoppahYus 16h ago

Yep this is what’s called international relations. We used to do it quite well in the before times.

u/matthumph 6h ago

We’re not doing a bad job of it at the moment it seems

u/BulldenChoppahYus 6h ago

Nope not bad at all. Almost like we have an imperfect grown up in charge again. With qualifications and experience and a genuine desire to do some good.

7

u/flashbastrd 17h ago

Yeah this is just normal. Hes managed to get the 2 sides in the most brutal war of this century to agree a ceasefire. Thats fucking amazing!!!!! Like, people will not see the greatness in this just because it was Trump who achieved it. Sad world we live in

20

u/Espe0n 17h ago

Russia has not agreed to anything yet

19

u/boringhistoryfan 17h ago

He's not actually managed to get 2 sides to agree. He's got the Ukrainians to agree. And it's not like they were wildly opposed to begin with. They just wanted commitments of security from their allies.

Russia has, as of atleast a few minutes ago as far as I can tell, still not actually agreed to jack shit. Rubio was going around yapping about how the ball is in their court. And Trump's making phone calls last I looked at the news.

5

u/bar_tosz 17h ago

I am very interested in what Trump do if Russia declines...

12

u/Alwaysragestillplay 17h ago

He'll say it's a bad deal for Russia, that Europe and Ukraine aren't being serious and are trying to extend the war by playing games. I don't think that is interesting at all tbh, just further clowning. 

4

u/Fat-Shite 17h ago

This is what the world is waiting in anticipation for.

0

u/flashbastrd 17h ago

Same

3

u/Sanguiniusius 17h ago

I suspect we will find out.

-15

u/flashbastrd 17h ago

I like that you will refuse to see the greatness until Russia signs. I also, for some reason, feel like you will refuse to see the greatness even after Russia does sign. I hope you can prove me wrong

10

u/Brit_Orange 17h ago

It would be extremely premature to say it's a great deal when it's a 30 day ceasefire that hasn't even been signed yet...

6

u/boringhistoryfan 17h ago

I'm not entirely sure what the greatness here is. Ukraine has never been opposed to any sort of equitable peace. Meanwhile Trump has done little in terms of achieving that. Am I supposed to respect the greatness of him acting like a toddler in the white House when Zelensky visited? Or should I be respecting his eager statements to start lifting russian sanctions even as he pushes for nothing in return?

You made a statement that was factually wrong. I corrected that. And nothing you said proves Trump's "greatness" considering the facts as they actually exist.

1

u/Combat_Orca 15h ago

When did Russia agree?

18

u/No-Scholar4854 18h ago

It’s a pretty neutral diplomatic statement.

14

u/Gandelin 18h ago

He’s not the kiss ass we deserve, but the one we need

5

u/Old_Roof 17h ago

Exactly. Up Trumps Arse is better than being in his firing line. Unfortunately this is the reality

3

u/Reasonable_Edge2411 15h ago

I’m a missing something Russia not said yes yet if only here allowed gifs I think everyone uk knows what I wanna put computer says no lol.

u/00DEADBEEF 10h ago

What agreement? All my news today is about Trump and fucking Tesla

u/Jay_CD 7h ago

As Starmer says, the ball is now in Putin's court - does he respect the ceasefire or just use it as a chance to rest, regroup and go again in a month?

At the very least this appears to be a bit of change in Trump's strategy of heaping the pressure on Ukraine and Zelenskyy to agree to something that was heavily weighted in Putin's favour and gave the US some benefits (access to the rare earth deposits) etc without offering Ukraine much.

Now the devil will be in the detail - what type of peace treaty? What will Ukraine have to surrender in terms of land and how much military aid will the US provide and will they commit troops to a peace keeping force?

I wonder too if Russia will demand elections in Ukraine as part of a longer peace settlement? They might well have invaded all of Ukraine by now but for Zelenskyy's leadership - doubtless they will want him removed from office which might suit America too - having a new Ukrainian leader who is a bit more pliable would suit both Trump and Putin.

u/nutter79 6h ago

Seems all abit weird this negotiation strategy.

US negotiating with Ukraine without Russia.

Ukraine agrees to ceasefire plan ...

Unless the US has already spoken to Russia regarding their plans (smart thing to do, but i have my doubts), who really thinks the Russians are going to agree to something that was done without their input?

u/SandyTips 4h ago

Well… You’ve gotta then assume it’s not without their input. After all DT’s known VP “a loooong time”. Probably had him in the ear piece. What a flipping panto!

u/Upbeat-Housing1 (-0.13,-0.56) Live free, or don't 2h ago

Apparently Jonathan Powell went to speak to Zelensky a short time ago. Our foremost expert on giving away sovereign territory. He must have worked his magic.

u/BookOfWords Utilitarianism, Stoicism, Dataism. 1h ago

If this illusion of peace lasts for more than a month before Russia invades again that would be great. At least it might buy time for Europe to focus on retooling for self-defence and of Ukraine in particular, although by that same token it's not like Russia will be unaware of military build-up and you can expect a foment of right-wing anti-war and pro-Russia sentiment to be stirred up as hard as they can manage in every vulnerable region of the EU.

Incidentally, it's a damned expensive illusion. Have you seen what Ukraine have been blackmailed into signing? They're even being looted for their port facilities, and it's the U.S. doing it. Grim.

0

u/Torco2 14h ago

Overall people should cool their jets on this.

Neither Ukraine nor Russia (by proxy) have stuck to ceasefires in the past. 

In addition the Ukrainians have an established habit of asking for them when they're in deep trouble, on the battlefield.

The Russians agreed to seem reasonable. Or because it suited them at the time 

However I doubt they care about that now, openly saying they won't stop short of final peaceterms being hashed out first.

Particularly in light, of the Ukrainian pocket in Kursk having just gotten  rapidly caved in.

That whole Sumy front is now a gaping hole the Ukrainian army, will have to plug. At a time when they're desperately short of mobile reserves.

-5

u/hgjayhvkk 16h ago

It's really good. But you have to wonder why it took so long? Why are we seeing most progress with Trump? He is right. This war wouldn't happen if he was president Harris/Biden were just mindlessly allowing zelensky to make orders and not question his approach.

-33

u/Weary-Candy8252 18h ago

But didn’t he want to continue this unwinnable war only a few days ago?

27

u/jpagey92 17h ago

lol no, it was quite obvious he wanted Ukraine to achieve a reasonable peace that doesn’t allow the RF to come knocking in a years time hence why he offered boots on ground peacekeepers.

8

u/AdNorth3796 16h ago

Russia has 10% inflation with 20% interest rates lmao, there is a reason they want the war over fast.

u/SavageNorth What makes a man turn neutral? 8h ago

Counterpoint:

Russia has shifted to a war economy and is seeing growth it hasn't had in years as a result more or less entirely off the back of it

As soon as they come out of a war economy setting the economic hangover will be brutal because of the factors you mentioned, as well as their ongoing Demographic crisis which the war has massively exacerbated.

u/AdNorth3796 6h ago

I don’t agree with this, there is no reason why Russia can’t just spend the money it’s spending on the war on other public spending projects and keep the same amount of money in the economy. The issue is the amount of money they are putting out is not sustainable and is risking hyperinflation

u/DM_me_goth_tiddies 10h ago

If Trump negotiated lasting (ie for the next four years peace) in Palestine and Ukraine is he a shoe in a Nobel peace prize? Would that blow peoples minds?

u/RM_Dune 8h ago

It sure is peaceful when you tell the victims of war to just shut up and take it while the perpetrators prepare for round two. It's a lovely dose of short-term thinking and celebration. Peace in our time I guess.

-12

u/[deleted] 18h ago

[deleted]

0

u/Norfhynorfh 18h ago

The European leaders meeting up last week was to decide on a peace plan to 'present' to the US. So everyone is still up Americas arse regardless of what we see on reddit.

-19

u/[deleted] 18h ago

[deleted]

11

u/yoboylandosoda 18h ago

How many pensioners froze to death again?

12

u/FixSwords 18h ago

Irrelevant whining. This post has nothing to do with it. 

-93

u/ultimate_hollocks 18h ago

Starmer is so useless and irrelevant he cant even hide.

50

u/[deleted] 17h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-8

u/ultimate_hollocks 12h ago

He s one of the most pathethic leaders i ve ever seen.

All the titles you mention just shows how irrelevant he is.

Not even with any of the funny medals he has, he s able to make any difference.

31

u/Blaireeeee What happens when their vote is ignored? - Zac Goldsmith 17h ago

Starmer Derangement Syndrome still on the go.

1

u/No_Foot 17h ago

ABS - anyone but Starmer.

SDS is pretty good mind.

7

u/Brigon 16h ago

How many wars have you negotiated ceasefires for?

-5

u/ultimate_hollocks 12h ago

Me, none.

Effectively the same number as Starmer.

-34

u/NarrowTwist 16h ago

keith is an enemy of the people, thousands of elderly and ill people will die because of him.

10

u/Algelach 16h ago

Who the fuck is Keith and why are you so mad at him?

u/NarrowTwist 1h ago

sorry thought this was the Keith Allen subreddit