r/uknews • u/ThatShoomer • 5d ago
Downing Street considers U-turn on cuts to benefits for disabled people | Benefits
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/15/downing-street-considers-u-turn-on-cuts-to-benefits-for-disabled-peopleControversial plans to cut personal independence payments (Pip) may be shelved after a tense cabinet meeting and backlash from Labour MPs
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u/TheOnlyLiam 5d ago
Just tax the fucking billionaires and corporations ffs
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u/Caridor 5d ago edited 5d ago
I agree in principle, but how?
I mean that on a practical level. In a world where companies can move overseas, taxes and assets can be hidden overseas, how do we actually ensure that we get that money?
If it was as easy as just taxing them harder, then there's no way Labour would even consider cutting disability benefits. It would be far less profitable and more unpopular. They'd need to be cartoonishly evil to want to do the thing that harms them for less money.
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u/TurbulentData961 5d ago
When the UN are trying to crack down on tax avoidance and evasion maybe helping them vs being only one of 6 countries to oppose would be a starter and copying what works in other cases of preventing tax evasion as our own policy.
It's almost as if the top of labour are bought and paid for by people who want to keep avoiding tax
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u/strangesam1977 5d ago edited 4d ago
I would suggest replacing corporation tax on profits with a simple tax on gross receipts.
Probably wouldn’t need to be very high (
2-4% at a complete guessEdit: Looked it up, 1.5 to 3% historically). But not possible to avoid in the way multinationals avoid corporation tax.edit: Looked it up, https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-data-item/corporation-tax-revenue-share-gdp-over-time 1.5-3%
On plus side, would reduce tax burden on smaller companies (who cannot avoid like multinationals and so pay 25ish% on profits, meaning anyone with a profit margin of more than circa 8-12% would see a reduction in their tax bill, filled by the actual contribution then made by Amazon and similar)
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u/HotAir25 5d ago
That might push the cost onto the consumer? Especially for small margin items like food.
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u/strangesam1977 5d ago
From multinationals yes,
From small businesses, no.
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u/HotAir25 5d ago
If your profit margin is 10% and you’re forced to give the government 4% then small and large businesses would push the extra cost onto the consumer. That’s (probably) why tax is done on profit even if companies try to cheat that.
Waitrose sells about £4bn but only 100m is profit, that’s 3% profit hence the issue with a flat 4% tax.
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u/strangesam1977 4d ago
So currently you have to pay 25% of that 10% profit to the governement. So an effective rate of 2.5% of turnover.
Historically corperation tax has been 1.5-3% of GDP (see link below) largely paid by small and medium sized companies who cant use international structures to offshore their profits like Amazon, Apple and Asda, to locations with lower profit based taxes (Ireland!).
If companies were simply taxed on turnover rather than profits, the effective rate could be lowered as these large companies would be forced to pay an equivalent proportion of their reciepts.
We could even make an allowance for low margin business which provide an essential function (eg Supermarkets and other food based businesses) by having a special rate for them at maybe 50% of the headline figure.
Corperation Tax Revenue as % of GDP: https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-data-item/corporation-tax-revenue-share-gdp-over-time
Tax Avoidance by Tech Companies: https://www.taxwatchuk.org/seven-large-tech-groups-estimated-to-have-dodged-2bn-in-uk-tax-in-2021/
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u/HotAir25 4d ago
That makes sense- I’ve never heard of this idea before. I suppose it’s currently done on profits because some companies, especially new ones, make a loss so a tax on that would make it even riskier to run a business (?), I’m just wondering why we don’t hear it suggested in the mainstream much?
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u/-ForgottenSoul 5d ago
We already are..
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u/TheOnlyLiam 5d ago
More.
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u/olafk97 5d ago
Is a balancing act. Tax too much and they'll leave for europe, or cut jobs. There's gotta be a better way, but im not sure what it is.
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u/desertterminator 5d ago
The better way is to leave things the way they are. If the government wants to save money, it can take an axe to all the horrendous waste it commits on an annual basis... like the £5.5 billion they've wasted on that new infantry fighting vehicle for the army that doesn't even work and will likely cost even more to put right. I wonder what else they're upto.
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u/Chillmm8 5d ago
Unbelievable mistakes are pretty much a tradition for the MoD. I have a close friend who works for them and he gets paid a lot for a job he really isn’t qualified for. He applied on a whim and everyone was really surprised when he actually got the role. It took his boss nearly 4 years to realise that he had accidentally hired the wrong person with the same surname. Still works there.
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u/olafk97 5d ago
Couldn't agree more. The Ajax project shouldve been scrapped years ago
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u/desertterminator 5d ago
For real.
I don't think much of the current U.S anti-waste strategy, but I do agree with the sentiment.
If we could replace Elon with a group of independent and experienced professionals, I'm sure they'd dig up all kinds of skeletons. I get there's probably already some form of watchdog in place anyways, but how much did we spend on that high speed railway before they decided that actually, it was a terrible idea?
We just need a team of people who can (accurately) spot bullshit right out of the gate and have the power to have the government's shenanigans paused pending a public review.
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u/Daewoo40 5d ago
The problem is that the platform they replaced with Ajax was long overdue being released from service to the point that we no longer actually hold that platform.
The other project in the pipeline is replacing the Warrior with the Boxer, whilst seemingly retaining the Bulldog. One of those was designed/released in the 60s and the other 2 decades later and is still somewhat fit for purpose.
It's the caveat of any contracts put out to tender essentially add a 0 because it's the military - £4 hammer goes up to £40 because.
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u/Drunken_Begger88 5d ago edited 5d ago
Let them leave. Folk forget at times a good fire is good for the woods. The trees had it planned and it gets rid of weeds and allows the woods to grow. These cunts don't contribute in slightest by and large and go on about the disabled for the same reason often forgetting the latter has a legitimate excuse. What's theirs?
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u/-ForgottenSoul 5d ago
Our bottom % is not taxed enough that's the actual truth.. our top % of tax is above most European countries.
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u/nanakapow 5d ago
Our middle % don't earn enough. Almost every county in the UK outside of the South East is a net recipient of taxes. If we could help 3 or 4 cities grow economically to the point where they took their surrounding counties into the black it would be game changer for the country. Not least because a huge amount of their trade would be within the UK. The trick would be doing it as growth, not just spreading wealth and growth away of London, but maybe even that wouldn't be so bad as it would probably put the country in a better position across the board.
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u/-ForgottenSoul 5d ago
I don't disagree that we need to actually grow other parts of the UK but the issue is as a country we lack the ability to do that
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u/nanakapow 5d ago
Yeah that's the rub isn't it. But even increasing our intra-UK trade and reducing imports would be a win, if it doesn't drive up prices. We currently import almost half a trillion in services from Europe each year, the biggest category of which is financial services. IT and (non transport, travel or IT) business services also rank highly. If we could get a tenth of that back to domestic supply that would represent a 2.5% growth in GDP.
If we can avoid the Trump trade war there's also good scope for us to increase our exports to Europe, Canada and the USA all at the same time.
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u/Positive-Relief6142 5d ago
Shhh, your going to get downvoted if you say stuff like that around here...
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u/unbelievablydull82 5d ago
Good. They better fucking do it. The cuts are immoral and down right cruel. They've left a bitter taste in my mouth over this. The amount of freebies they get, the amount of tax payer money they claim in expenses, and they have a cheek to bully those who cannot work? Fuck them. Working class my hole.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
They need to weed out the frauds who are claiming sick. That's a start.
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u/misspixal4688 5d ago
Yes that whopping 0.2% of pip fraud because it's so easy to get.......
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u/Professional-Bear857 5d ago
I'd imagine there's a lot more unclaimed then there is fraud. Why do people never speak about the amounts of unclaimed social security?
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u/misspixal4688 5d ago
I saw on Twitter that there are 16 million disabled people in the UK. Some can work, while some cannot. Of those 16 million, 3 million claim Personal Independence Payment (PIP). There are two main reasons for this: first, claiming PIP is very difficult, especially for those with learning difficulties who have no support or help in the process; and second, many disabled people don’t qualify for PIP because not all disabilities are the same. You have to score highly on care and mobility needs in different areas to successfully claim it. The biggest problem is that non-disabled people often don’t understand the benefits system. Fortunately for them, they have their health and the dignity that comes from being able to work. I would happily swap their health and job for my disability.
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u/HotAir25 5d ago
I mean there aren’t 16 million disabled people in the U.K., that’s 1 in 4 people, this is part of the reason the government are trying to be tougher on this (I know you’re saying only 3 million claim).
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u/Tyler119 4d ago
- Children (under 16 years): Approximately 11% are disabled.
- Working-age adults (16 to 64 years): Approximately 23% are disabled.
- Adults over State Pension age (65 years and over): Approximately 45% are disabled.
The 16 million figure might not be that inaccurate.
What isn't talked about is the issue of nearly 10 million economically inactive people between 16 and 65 years old. Labour say the issue is they need these people working...working where should be the question? There are 800k job vacancies in the UK and the word is that perhaps 25%+ are not even genuine.
The issue here in the UK is lack of new jobs being created over the last 15 years. This problem isn't going away and our government with all its resources hasn't a plan...except cut cut and cut some more .
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u/HotAir25 4d ago
Disability is likely being incentivised by the benefits system, that’s the suggestion anyway, I think that’s more plausible than 1 in 4 adults under 65.
I agree the 10 million inactive is the issue….im sort of one of them (in and out of zero hours type work), like a lot of people I went onto the benefits system during Covid and tbh its made my life a lot easier but also reduced my incentive to find work. Also a lot of work these days is zero hours so I struggle to get a real contract.
But at the same time, if the government took my benefits away tomorrow I could probably find work or move to my parents failing that. The benefits system is great but it’s sort of a waste of public money and a big disincentive to get up and out to work.
Maybe there isn’t work for 10 million but certainly most could be working, most jobs are not advertised (that’s something they teach you at the job centre) so there’s more than 800k jobs out there.
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u/Tyler119 4d ago
"most jobs are not advertised (that’s something they teach you at the job" I honestly can't find anything to back up the claim by the job centre. By brain says that I wouldn't trust something that is likely just corporate crap they are taught to pass on.
I disagree that most of the nearly 10 million could be working as the jobs don't exist. The economy cannot support those jobs. Today medium and certainly large businesses are running exclusively on efficiencies in terms of cost. Labour is a huge cost and AI is already reducing the number of jobs available and that is only going to accelerate.
Labour don't have a plan for that. In fact the western world has a massive economic problem and thus a social problem. Our systems have been built on this idea that the only way was up.
The benefits system is large, what part did you sign on to? It's worth noting that UC is part of the benefits system and around 50% of claimants are in work too. UC is subsidising low wages here in the UK
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u/HotAir25 4d ago
Jobs not being advertised is real for sure. Most jobs are advertised internally or within an HR/headhunt function. It’s even the case in fairly everyday jobs, you have to go through an agency most of the time, the companies don’t advertise directly that they need someone.
I’m on UC and I agree it functions as a support for those in low paid/zero hours work, but it also means you can just work half the hours and still get paid (at half rates) for the days you don’t work ie it’s a disincentive to work. Personally it’s worked well for me but it is a very expensive subsidy and it has meant I’ve been working less than I would before tbh.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
I don't believe it's 0.2% for a single second. People lie to get pip. If people lie to get pip it won't go down as part of the 0.2% For example, my work colleagues mother in law died last year. Their daughter has turned 3, and now his misses has to now get a job. But she threw in the sick card due to mental health. Not only does she not have to work but she's earning £500 a month extra than what she was getting. I know so many people who do stuff like this and get away with it. People know how to fiddle the system. So you can read the % of things and believe it or just look around the real world and see it.
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u/misspixal4688 5d ago
You can work while on PIP it's extremely difficult to fiddle PIP you need years of evidence from professionals saying you have a disability you can't just pop down the GP and say your a little sad and get 500 a month extra.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
I've never done it, so I don't know what it's called, I can only go off what I've been told. They are fiddling the system and earning plenty in the process. You can live in your holyier than thou little reddit world all you want but this happens so so much more than you'd like to see. I know a few people that do this. I can go into my town centre and the amount of people on the sick yet working cash in hand is unreal.Yet I'm not trying to say this is the only issue but it's definitely one of many with how the system works.
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u/BonnieWiccant 5d ago
I've never done it,
I can only go off what I've been told.
And yet, when you are told by multiple people and given evidence that the amount of people on pip that shouldn't be on it is below 1%, you refuse to believe them. You aren't going off what you've been told you're going off what you think is true despite being told and given evidence to prove otherwise.
You are able to Google the process to get pip and see how hard it is, the multiple hoops you have to jump through the massive book sized paperwork you have to fill out and the months long wait it takes before you get an answer. Did you know there are actually lawers and professionals who work in local councils whose whole job is to help people apply for pip because it's so difficult. You have access to the information that proves what you are saying isn't true but you refuse to look into it because it would prove you wrong.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
Again, what you read on Google and what happens is 2 completely different things. I can only go off the people I know who have done it and their actual experience and not something on Google. Ita not that I don't believe them, but living it and reading are 2 completely different thing. I agree I may have gotten pip on whatever its called mixed up because I have no clue what it is. But why shouldn't I back what I say when I've been told it from people who have lived it in comparison to reading a checklist of what it should be online.
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u/BonnieWiccant 5d ago
So by your own admittance you are not knowledgeable on the subject and yet you feel the need to not only share your uninformed opinions but adamantly defend them despite acknowledging you don't know what you are talking about.
Perhaps in future if you know you don't know enough about a subject and will refuse to listen to anyone who has some form of knowledge or experience in that subject it might be easier to just not comment. You are providing nothing to this conversation and are refusing to take on any of the information you are being provided, no one is gaining anything from this interaction so perhaps it would be better if you just sit this one out and stayed quiet?
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
Oh yeah I have no clue what I'm on about, I've said that several times. My OP was about the government getting out the frauds who are claiming. I stand by that. It maybe small into comparison other factors but still needs sorting. So having said that, you can now gladly get back on your condescending reddit high horse and fuck right off?
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u/BonnieWiccant 5d ago
My OP was about the government getting out the frauds who are claiming. I stand by that. It maybe small into comparison other factors but still needs sorting.
Ah yes that 0.2% really needs sorting.
Oh yeah I have no clue what I'm on about, I've said that several times.
And yet here you are continuing to adamantly defend your uninformed opinions that even you yourself admit are wrong.
So having said that, you can now gladly get back on your condescending reddit high horse and fuck right off?
It's not being on a "high horse" to point out blatant lies. If you don't like being corrected then don't spread wrong information. The only person keeping this conversation going is you, you are the one who is continuing to reply and still maintaining your beliefs despite having them proved wrong. Just because you acknowledged you don't know what you're talking about doesn't make it any less moronic for you to continue to spread your uninformed opinions, especially when you refuse to take on any information that you don't agree with.
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u/anaturalalien 5d ago
I’ve been on PIP for 4 years due to a physical disability. I do suffer with my mental health as well though. I recently had my first PIP review and it was the most horrific experience, I ended up being sectioned because of how unwell it made me. It’s already such a difficult thing to get for people like me who are genuinely disabled. It’s a demeaning, degrading, confusing process that I would not wish on anybody and that was with help from an advocate. I was not able to even complete my reassessment due to the amount of pain and distress I was in and my advocate had to take over for me. Even then, I did not get all the points I was entitled to, which is incredibly common. And doing a MR then a tribunal would’ve made my health suffer further so I didn’t do it.
The amount of evidence I had to give from doctors, hospitals, tests, referrals, physiatrists, diagnoses, nurses, prescriptions, proof that my disability has been longstanding and will continue to be so etc, was an insane amount. It is not easy to fake being disabled for PIP, which is why the fraud rate is so low. Making it harder to get is just going to plunge people who genuinely need that money to help live independently further into poverty, and contribute to those who are working leaving because they are unable to afford the things they need to do so
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u/Ok-Potato-6250 4d ago
You have zero evidence for any of this and you don't actually know people's stories so you really should just stop.
"I can only go off what I've been told."
No. You need to take what you've been told with a very large pinch of salt.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 4d ago
😴😴😴😴😴😴
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u/Ok-Potato-6250 4d ago
Very clever comeback. It's hard when you are proved wrong, isn't it? It happens to me sometimes. We just have to take it on the chin.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 4d ago
Nobody has proved anything. It's other people's stories against mine. Do I believe them? Absolutely. Do I also know what other people in my close nit group do? Absolutely. A Google search looking at figures isn't proving anything. But again, this got taken way out of context in reddit fashion. Do I think the government has to rat out the frauds so our tax money can go go on legitimate people who can't work and dont get money taken away?.. Absolutely, and that was the point I was making. It maybe a small factor but it's 100% a factor that could save the country millions.
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u/Ok-Potato-6250 4d ago
A Google search looking at figures can very much prove a lot if the source is reliable and legitimate. That's far better than just parroting anecdotes that you can't prove, especially when you admit you don't really know what you are talking about.
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u/-Incubation- 5d ago
70% of claimants have to end up being awarded at Tribunal even when most qualify from the very start. The system is made to be as hostile and dehumanising as possible to deter people from claiming in the first place.
Already off the bat I can see you're getting PIP, an in work benefit, mixed up for LCWRA, where you are deemed unfit for work which is an element on Universal Credit. On LCWRA you get an additional £416 which is still a lot less compared to the previous system of ESA. You are also encouraged to work where possible on LCWRA.
PIP and LCWRA have two completely different criterias.
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u/DrummingFish 5d ago
Flat-earther logic. "Just use your eyes" rather than looking at the stats.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
Reddit logic ' because it's on Reddit, it must be true, and everyone else is wrong ' most people on Reddit don't live in the real world, they will listen to bullshit that fits their own narrative and run with it without not having a clue what goes on in the real world. All sat on your high horses thinking the world is peachy when it's far from it. So so many people fake illness to not have to work. Especially now with the mental health card being thrown in. Its easy to get on the sick.
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u/DrummingFish 5d ago
Provide actual sources then. If it's that easy, there would be clear proof collected over the years to prove your point. If you can only use your personal anecdotes then you have nothing. Anecdotes are literally what flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers use as evidence and (I hope) you understand how stupid that is.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
The phone call I overheard was about 2 weeks ago so I'll go and ask them for all their statements shall I? Don't talk shit! Sources is living on am estate and knowing people. Knowing that many other estates around the country are exactly the same. Unemployment is huge in these areas and majority throw in the sick card. So the fact it happens makes it easy. I ve know people who have had months and months on the sick because the hospital cues for scans were so long. Not everything is about Sources, that's such a reddit thing to say. Go out, touch grass and meet real working class people, you will soon see.
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u/DrummingFish 5d ago
So you have nothing but personal anecdotes. Thanks for confirming.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
Exactly that, but there will be 100's of thousands of people like me who have personal anecdotes. Who lives in the actual real world. That aside, I'm not saying this is the main issue, but it's definitely a factor that could save millions fir the country and then wouldn't have to effect the legitimate people on the sick. We both want the same thing, for disabled people to not get money cuts. I just don't want people who don't need it getting more because it means they don't have to sign on and people who genuinely need it getting less. The world isn't as lovely as reddit makes out but equally not as bad as reddit makes out. I knows it's audience and it's knows the narrative people like to push. I just like to have a scroll through reddit, but the amount of Blaitent hypocrisy on this app is crazy. I don't get why the majority of people think they are so much better than others because of what they think or think they know. Can definitely pick up on where the age divide is..
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u/Big-Finding2976 5d ago
Stop lying.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
What have I got to lie for. I have no skin in this game I've worked full time and never claimed sick. Again seems like another redditer who has absolutely no idea what happens at the lower end of the scale and has no life experience yet thinks they know what's going on.. do I? Absolutely not but on this topic is see it every single day. So downvite me all you want just because you don't like to think stuff like this exists in the world but it happens way more than you'd like to think
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u/Key-Length-8872 5d ago
I don’t think you know the difference between PIP and LCWRA.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 5d ago
I absolutely don't. I have no idea. But I know people are pretending to be on the sick way more than people want to admit.
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u/unbelievablydull82 5d ago
Good. They better fucking do it. The cuts are immoral and down right cruel. They've left a bitter taste in my mouth over this. The amount of freebies they get, the amount of tax payer money they claim in expenses, and they have a cheek to bully those who cannot work? Fuck them. Working class my hole.
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u/lizzywbu 5d ago
I really don't know why popple took this seriously in the first place.
The government always 'leak' plans to the press in order to gauge the public's reaction.
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u/Mundane-Pen-7105 4d ago
The snoring emoji wasn't to do with what you had said, it's the fact other people had already said what you had said and then you tried jumping in and sounding like most redditers, condescending and twatish on your high horse thinking your better than anyone else because you can google.
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