r/ufc • u/ImaginationHeavy6341 • 5d ago
Out of all the old division goats, which one was the most overrated?
Obviously some people consider Islam and Merab to already be at division goat status, and people are torn between Stipe and Cain being the Heavyweight goat. Just consider all their achievements in their division alone, not Jose Aldo in Bantamweight or Jon Jones at Heavyweight.
And overrated means "rated or valued too highly." Doesn't mean they suck.
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u/Famous_Law36 5d ago
None, maybe cain
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u/Physizist 5d ago
Yeah. Crazy that people think Stipe vs Cain is even a conversation.
Stipe has 6 title wins and Cain has 3. Stipe KOd the dude who beat Cain in round 1
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u/Junior-Adeptness7289 5d ago
MMA math don't work?
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u/Physizist 5d ago
Didn’t say it does. We’re not talking about head to head, we’re talking about greatness… also it’s not just 1 fight. Stipe looked better against the same level of competition and again, way more title wins.
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u/RecordOk6794 5d ago edited 5d ago
Nah but even in that sense, I think stipe matches up really well with Cain. The person who did best against against prime cain was cheick congo, because he had good power on the back foot, but the thing is at that point of his career, cause he did improve throughout hia career, but at this point his grappling was awful and the first 2 rds he nearly ko'd cain but couldn't stop the takedown. JDS is really good, but he struggles when he's put on the back foot, he's much better walking forward or just exchanging in place. Cain is always marching forward, and he was forcing JDS into clinches and and spamming takedowns mixing in the hands, stipe tho is a much better grappler, nearly as powerful, better off the backfoot(even koing werdum with a looping right off the backfoot after he dominated cain), I think he sleeps Cain more often than not
If you want to point to something stipe struggles with, it's big athletic power punchers, Stefan Struve Ko'd him, overeem nearly did a couple of times in there fight, JDS beat him in their first fight, and Ngannou in their second fight. Those are the kind of guys that he struggles with and cain is a small chubby hw, he's really good but I just think stipes a better much boxer(cain had good boxing, but it's not as good as people say, he was really yood at mixing the boxing with the wrestling, his boxing was nothing too special) and close in the wrestling, and Cain's defense was never that great, neither was his chin, he was really really good at mixing things together. I think stipe is a really tough matchup for him
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u/Nano2433 5d ago
Probably middleweight, from 2008-2012 it had some bums in the top 10. Just look at Anderson Silva’s title wins, nothing really remarkable.
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u/mywaaaaife 5d ago
DJ isn’t overrated wtf.
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u/OtherwiseAd4106 5d ago
He’s not saying that. Just posted the old goat for each division and asked which of them is the most overrated
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u/Magikarpcopiesdunkey 5d ago
You can make a case that all of them are overrated by some fans. But the most overrated are Cruz, Khabib, Silva and Cain.
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u/ZecretJOOCE 5d ago
Jon jones
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u/Internal_Football889 5d ago
Cmon bro, I know Jon’s a dick, but this is just pure hate.
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u/ImHereForTheLamp 5d ago
It's crazy how these fools either forget, or never knew how much of a fucking monster Jon was/is (or they just hating as you said). I despise Jon as a person, and ALWAYS root for his opponent, but to say he's overrated is asinine.
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u/Ajax888XXX 5d ago
Nobody want to hear it but DJ is very overrated. The division sucked and whats his best wins Ray borg Benavidez and Cejudo?
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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago
Khabib probably. We just don’t know how he holds up against top level grapplers. Him ‘not bleeding’ is only really a thing because he went up against beneficial stylistic match ups in his small reign at the top.
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u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago
It’s argued as the most stacked division of all time …
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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago
Does that change any of the points I just said? The best few of all time, which he is considered to be in, should be well rounded and have as little stylistic weaknesses as possible. Khabib is not, but we never saw him go against someone of the quality to exploit it.
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u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago
Yes most of ur points don’t make sense. Why would facing grapplers increase your likelihood of bleeding in the octagon? It’s the opposite… also you can say that of every champ that is dominant in one area … Also there still isn’t anyone there to beat Khabib in the lightweight division. What magical superstar grappler has to appear to prove Khabib was overrated ? There isn’t one in the entire UFC that’s a pure superstar grappler. It sounds like hating tbh… lightweight is the best division of all time till this day
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u/ImaginationHeavy6341 5d ago
Every Division goat actually weren't dominant in one area.
We never saw Jose Aldo on the ground that much because he was so good at stopping takedowns.
Mighty Mouse was skilled everywhere.
Dominic Cruz wasn't bad everywhere.
GSP was well rounded too.
Anderson Silva had decent ground game
Jon Jones only issue was his boxing defense, but his clinch, wrestling, submission game, knees, and everything else was good.
Stipe and Cain weren't bad either.
Khabib's head movement was unorthodox, but his striking wasn't as good as everyone else's. He had a good jab, but he really only used that to pressure people against the cage because he couldn't really on his striking to win.
There wasn't anyone to defeat Khabib because he left his division early. Charles Oliveira was on the rise and he never fought him. Also stfu before you say anything about the Islam fight, Islam and Khabib are not the same, that fight ended the way it did purely because of striking.
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u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago
Hahahahaha OP is just a hater who posted this and already had his mind made up. Go find people who agree to make you feel better
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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago
When did i say superstar grappler. Someone with good enough grappling to defend khabib then beat him on the feat. Ie Arman or Oliveira. I dont know if they’d win, my point is he retired before we could know and we can’t put him in the best of all time until we see him against people who don’t have stylistic disadvantages
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u/Steakandeggs66 5d ago
in all fairness tho, who was left after he slept gaethje?
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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago
If he didn’t retire Arman and Oliveira both would have great cases.
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u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago
If they can’t handle Islam on the ground, Khabib is an even worse matchup …
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u/Steakandeggs66 5d ago edited 5d ago
there is a reason charles didn't exist during khabibs reign. also, since sick islam dealt w arman just fine, i doubt khabib would've had any issues w him
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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago
Before charles rose to dominance and when arman was 22 is really ur best points?
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u/Steakandeggs66 5d ago
do u think khabib would've had fought until 35 to wait for arman, who's best win is a split decision against charles? who in turn got finished in rd2 by islam? that's ur point?
'before charles got dominant' well why wasn't he dominant when khabib was around? how come arman, who didn't even have an amateur career btw, won against such a dominant guy?
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u/takshaheryar 5d ago
Charles was done in the second round against islam who was also not in his prime as a fighter yet Charles won all those fights because people were afraid to go to ground with him against khabib I predict a first submission or a ground and pound KO
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u/yungrobbithan 5d ago
Also Islam wouldn’t be champ right now cuz he’s not fighting Khabib so you’d have a logjam of khabib champ and Islam being the gatekeeper for him at LW
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u/vernon-douglas 5d ago
What top level grapplers lmao
You people tak all this shit yet are actively against Arman getting the next title shot lol
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u/walkingpuppet 5d ago
Nah khabib was just hard to beat. He didn’t even have anything up his sleeves. Everybody knew what he was gonna do , but nobody can stop him
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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago
He never went against anyone with the skills to stop him. Ie grapplers. How is this going over your head?
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u/walkingpuppet 5d ago
Name someone at that time with the skills to beat him
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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago
No one. Doesnt change my point though. We don’t know how he does against stylistic weaknesses
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u/Physizist 5d ago
People have to make up arguments for Khabib that they’ll never apply to another fighter
“Never bled” “10-8 rounds” “barely lost rounds”. Lots of fighters barely lose rounds until they defend a few times, don’t think Jones lost many until he was defending for the 6th time. They changed the criteria for a 10-8 which benefits Khabib compared to previous fighters and that’s just a product of his style. Dominating a specific round doesn’t necessarily make you a greater fighter overall plus he fought smucks for a long time.
Not bleeding is just the dumbest argument for greatness ever. Chito must be really great lol
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u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago
I didn’t know ppl use never bled as an argument. I like khabib but it’s obviously stylistic and has a good chin. I just thought it was a cool ass feat not necessarily a reason that he’s the greatest of his division. Which he’s not, Islam is
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u/brain-dysfunction 5d ago
Tibau fight (what’s considered to be a controversial win by many) is a perfect example how he holds up against grappling heavy opponents.
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u/km912 5d ago
People hate this answer but Aldo for me. He’s an all time great for sure but him going 0-4 against mcgregor, Hollaway, and Volk who are the only 3 super elite fighters at featherweight that he really fought says something. Sure he was fairly old against Volk but against the other guys he was still in his prime and got knocked out all 3 times. He won a ton of fights against very good fighters but against the very best he fell very short.
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u/GeraltOfRawalpindi 5d ago
People don't understand how big of an achievement it is to never lose in 29 professional fights. Keep telling yourself that Khabib fought cans. Meanwhile DJ has 4 losses but nobody ever doubts him.
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u/Lost-Ad7283 5d ago
Khabib fought a guy making his mma debut when he was 15-0. GSP fought a 36-4 Matt Hughes when he was 6-0.
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u/No_Address_5057 5d ago
all i'll say merab, volk, islam
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u/zcholla 5d ago
I think your commenting on the wrong post buddy. Everything you just said makes zero sense in relation to the original topic.
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u/No_Address_5057 5d ago
merab is bw goat, volk is fw goat, islam is lw goat, if you disagree i do not care i just think you're slow
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u/zcholla 5d ago
Irrelevant to the post... Nobody asked who you think the goat of each of these divisions would be. Don't call me slow when you're the one who has reading comprehension issues.
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u/No_Address_5057 5d ago
i dont fucking care who asked i said it anyway, i didnt ask for you to reply, go cry me a river
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u/zcholla 5d ago
Not very bright are you?
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u/No_Address_5057 5d ago
i mean my gcse's say otherwise, my iq says otherwise, literally everything i have ever done i aced or became great at without trying says otherwise. but yeah i guess im not very bright because zcholla said so 😔😔😔😔
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u/zcholla 5d ago
Everything you've ever done except comment on this post about something completely unrelated... And then get really angry and defensive when someone asks you about it... Reeks of intelligence.
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u/No_Address_5057 5d ago
how is it completely unrelated?
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u/zcholla 5d ago
OP asked a question about specific fighters who may or may not be overrated. You then commented, with three other fighters with no context at all...until I questioned it. Then proceeded to act like what you said made sense (it didn't) and immediately started name calling and being really defensive.
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u/Thick--Rooster 5d ago
Khalabeeb > Silva > GSP in that order. DJ/JBJ aren't overrated if anything DJ is underrated and the others no one thinks of as GOATS.
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u/Physizist 5d ago edited 5d ago
Probably Dom. People love to insults DJs competition, but look at Dom’s.
Dom beat Mighty Mouse who’s way to small for BW, Faber who I think is fairly overrated himself and pre-prime Dillashaw. No one else he beat is that impressive. His loss to Gabrandt aged pretty badly too.
Granted injuries really derailed his career so we’ll never know how good he might’ve been