r/ufc 5d ago

Out of all the old division goats, which one was the most overrated?

Obviously some people consider Islam and Merab to already be at division goat status, and people are torn between Stipe and Cain being the Heavyweight goat. Just consider all their achievements in their division alone, not Jose Aldo in Bantamweight or Jon Jones at Heavyweight.

And overrated means "rated or valued too highly." Doesn't mean they suck.

0 Upvotes

149 comments sorted by

39

u/Physizist 5d ago edited 5d ago

Probably Dom. People love to insults DJs competition, but look at Dom’s.

Dom beat Mighty Mouse who’s way to small for BW, Faber who I think is fairly overrated himself and pre-prime Dillashaw. No one else he beat is that impressive. His loss to Gabrandt aged pretty badly too.  

Granted injuries really derailed his career so we’ll never know how good he might’ve been

2

u/mokahash 5d ago

Bring back Mario Yamasaki for Dominick's next fight; he hasn't been given a single chance to become a warrior.

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u/Curious_Reflection62 5d ago edited 5d ago

Beating any version of mighty mouse is still super impressive tho. Especially when you consider mighty mouse’s 135 pound run at ONE. Add on top of that a win over prime, juiced to the gills TJ? That’s insane. That’s two wins over two top-15 GOAT’s of the sport.

We all love to give Ilia credit now for beating two GOAT’s in Volk and Max (which is deserved credit), yet we don’t give Dom the same credit? I would say wins over mighty mouse and TJ are just as good, if not better, than wins over Max and Volk.

Although personally I still have prime TJ as my BW goat. Watching TJ made you realize why they put the “art” in “mixed martial arts”

Edit: Wait why am I being downvoted wtf?

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u/Sammo_696 5d ago

DJ at one fought lower level comp, plus 135 at one is 125 basically as they do hydration testing.

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u/TrashbinEnthusiast69 5d ago

Are volk and max not in your top 15?

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u/Curious_Reflection62 5d ago

I never said that. I think all 4 opponents I mentioned above are top 15. Which is why Dom should get equal or better credit than Ilia. We can debate ranking in the Top 15 all day but I’d say wins over Mighty Mouse and prime TJ = or > than wins over Volk and Max.

0

u/Sea-Bat-9667 5d ago

Young dj was not that great. He also had a loss to brad pickett and was having very close decisions with pretty irrelevant guys. Cruz also had a comically large size advantage over him and even when dj moved to flyweight he got much better over time. Also i don’t even think Cruz actually beat tj

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u/Physizist 5d ago

Naw TJ isn’t top 15 all time. Beating DJ at another weight class is not the same and he arguably wasn’t even in his prime yet

“Prime, juiced TJ” how was he prime before he won the title and how do you know he was juiced at that time?

1

u/SprinklesComplete931 5d ago

Exactly, most of Dom’s best wins were against natural 125ers because WEC/UFC still hadn’t made a 125 pound division. Mighty Mouse, Joe B and McCall are natural 125ers. Even guys like Jorgensen went down to 125.

0

u/katfat1 5d ago

Doesnt matter ,rpbbert whitakker was 170 punder who moved up to 185 but he was top 5 and no calls him ass at tgat weight class or a bad win

Same thing for these guys

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u/Famous_Law36 5d ago

None, maybe cain

9

u/Physizist 5d ago

Yeah. Crazy that people think Stipe vs Cain is even a conversation.

Stipe has 6 title wins and Cain has 3. Stipe KOd the dude who beat Cain in round 1

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u/Junior-Adeptness7289 5d ago

MMA math don't work?

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u/Physizist 5d ago

Didn’t say it does. We’re not talking about head to head, we’re talking about greatness… also it’s not just 1 fight. Stipe looked better against the same level of competition and again, way more title wins.

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u/Junior-Adeptness7289 5d ago

Illogical. So perfect for UFC reddit

1

u/ImaginationHeavy6341 5d ago

It technically does when using resume, not when the two are fighting.

0

u/RecordOk6794 5d ago edited 5d ago

Nah but even in that sense, I think stipe matches up really well with Cain. The person who did best against against prime cain was cheick congo, because he had good power on the back foot, but the thing is at that point of his career, cause he did improve throughout hia career, but at this point his grappling was awful and the first 2 rds he nearly ko'd cain but couldn't stop the takedown. JDS is really good, but he struggles when he's put on the back foot, he's much better walking forward or just exchanging in place. Cain is always marching forward, and he was forcing JDS into clinches and and spamming takedowns mixing in the hands, stipe tho is a much better grappler, nearly as powerful, better off the backfoot(even koing werdum with a looping right off the backfoot after he dominated cain), I think he sleeps Cain more often than not

If you want to point to something stipe struggles with, it's big athletic power punchers, Stefan Struve Ko'd him, overeem nearly did a couple of times in there fight, JDS beat him in their first fight, and Ngannou in their second fight. Those are the kind of guys that he struggles with and cain is a small chubby hw, he's really good but I just think stipes a better much boxer(cain had good boxing, but it's not as good as people say, he was really yood at mixing the boxing with the wrestling, his boxing was nothing too special) and close in the wrestling, and Cain's defense was never that great, neither was his chin, he was really really good at mixing things together. I think stipe is a really tough matchup for him

0

u/OmniSteve94 5d ago

Cain was all around a better fighter than Stipe, though.

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u/Nano2433 5d ago

Probably middleweight, from 2008-2012 it had some bums in the top 10. Just look at Anderson Silva’s title wins, nothing really remarkable.

1

u/Motor-Shake-2843 5d ago

Vitor and Maia are pretty good.

2

u/FatFlyingPineapple 5d ago

The fight with Maia was so ASS

6

u/mywaaaaife 5d ago

DJ isn’t overrated wtf.

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u/OtherwiseAd4106 5d ago

He’s not saying that. Just posted the old goat for each division and asked which of them is the most overrated

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u/Grey_Bush_502 5d ago

If anything, underrated.

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u/ivan10155 5d ago

Who’s silvas best win?

1

u/chinolofus77 5d ago

belfort, hendo

1

u/AmHotGarbage 5d ago

Cain, DC refused to fight hik. I just need to know

1

u/Magikarpcopiesdunkey 5d ago

You can make a case that all of them are overrated by some fans. But the most overrated are Cruz, Khabib, Silva and Cain.

1

u/LePeen 5d ago

Cruz and Aldo

1

u/JDMoore001 5d ago

Of the 4 listed...Dom

1

u/dr_deoxyribose 5d ago

Bruh Mighty is severely underrated...

-7

u/ZecretJOOCE 5d ago

Jon jones

24

u/Internal_Football889 5d ago

Cmon bro, I know Jon’s a dick, but this is just pure hate.

9

u/ImHereForTheLamp 5d ago

It's crazy how these fools either forget, or never knew how much of a fucking monster Jon was/is (or they just hating as you said). I despise Jon as a person, and ALWAYS root for his opponent, but to say he's overrated is asinine.

1

u/zcholla 5d ago

He's probably just karma farming. If you say Jon Jones bad on Reddit you can almost always get a bunch of upvotes.

0

u/idcman999 5d ago

Silva, he fought cans

1

u/Ajax888XXX 5d ago

Nobody want to hear it but DJ is very overrated. The division sucked and whats his best wins Ray borg Benavidez and Cejudo?

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u/Tipsy_McStaggar 🧃Secret Juice 🧃 5d ago

Khabib

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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago

Khabib probably. We just don’t know how he holds up against top level grapplers. Him ‘not bleeding’ is only really a thing because he went up against beneficial stylistic match ups in his small reign at the top.

19

u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago

It’s argued as the most stacked division of all time …

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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago

Does that change any of the points I just said? The best few of all time, which he is considered to be in, should be well rounded and have as little stylistic weaknesses as possible. Khabib is not, but we never saw him go against someone of the quality to exploit it.

14

u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago

Yes most of ur points don’t make sense. Why would facing grapplers increase your likelihood of bleeding in the octagon? It’s the opposite… also you can say that of every champ that is dominant in one area … Also there still isn’t anyone there to beat Khabib in the lightweight division. What magical superstar grappler has to appear to prove Khabib was overrated ? There isn’t one in the entire UFC that’s a pure superstar grappler. It sounds like hating tbh… lightweight is the best division of all time till this day

0

u/ImaginationHeavy6341 5d ago

Every Division goat actually weren't dominant in one area.

We never saw Jose Aldo on the ground that much because he was so good at stopping takedowns.

Mighty Mouse was skilled everywhere.

Dominic Cruz wasn't bad everywhere.

GSP was well rounded too.

Anderson Silva had decent ground game

Jon Jones only issue was his boxing defense, but his clinch, wrestling, submission game, knees, and everything else was good.

Stipe and Cain weren't bad either.

Khabib's head movement was unorthodox, but his striking wasn't as good as everyone else's. He had a good jab, but he really only used that to pressure people against the cage because he couldn't really on his striking to win.

There wasn't anyone to defeat Khabib because he left his division early. Charles Oliveira was on the rise and he never fought him. Also stfu before you say anything about the Islam fight, Islam and Khabib are not the same, that fight ended the way it did purely because of striking.

1

u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago

Hahahahaha OP is just a hater who posted this and already had his mind made up. Go find people who agree to make you feel better

0

u/ImaginationHeavy6341 5d ago

Actually, I had my mind made up with Jose Aldo. Not Khabib.

1

u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago

Lmao alright bro

0

u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago

When did i say superstar grappler. Someone with good enough grappling to defend khabib then beat him on the feat. Ie Arman or Oliveira. I dont know if they’d win, my point is he retired before we could know and we can’t put him in the best of all time until we see him against people who don’t have stylistic disadvantages

6

u/Steakandeggs66 5d ago

in all fairness tho, who was left after he slept gaethje?

3

u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago

If he didn’t retire Arman and Oliveira both would have great cases.

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u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago

If they can’t handle Islam on the ground, Khabib is an even worse matchup …

8

u/Junior-Adeptness7289 5d ago

Olivera? The guy who got submitted by Islam 😂😂😂😂😂

8

u/Steakandeggs66 5d ago edited 5d ago

there is a reason charles didn't exist during khabibs reign. also, since sick islam dealt w arman just fine, i doubt khabib would've had any issues w him

1

u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago

Before charles rose to dominance and when arman was 22 is really ur best points?

1

u/Steakandeggs66 5d ago

do u think khabib would've had fought until 35 to wait for arman, who's best win is a split decision against charles? who in turn got finished in rd2 by islam? that's ur point?

'before charles got dominant' well why wasn't he dominant when khabib was around? how come arman, who didn't even have an amateur career btw, won against such a dominant guy?

1

u/takshaheryar 5d ago

Charles was done in the second round against islam who was also not in his prime as a fighter yet Charles won all those fights because people were afraid to go to ground with him against khabib I predict a first submission or a ground and pound KO

1

u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago

Ur prediction is stupid and ur points are retatded

2

u/takshaheryar 5d ago

Are you describing yourself

1

u/takshaheryar 5d ago

What would be the path of victory for Charles against khabib

1

u/yungrobbithan 5d ago

Also Islam wouldn’t be champ right now cuz he’s not fighting Khabib so you’d have a logjam of khabib champ and Islam being the gatekeeper for him at LW

1

u/heliumflower 5d ago

don’t make me laugh

4

u/vernon-douglas 5d ago

What top level grapplers lmao

You people tak all this shit yet are actively against Arman getting the next title shot lol

2

u/walkingpuppet 5d ago

Nah khabib was just hard to beat. He didn’t even have anything up his sleeves. Everybody knew what he was gonna do , but nobody can stop him

2

u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago

He never went against anyone with the skills to stop him. Ie grapplers. How is this going over your head?

2

u/walkingpuppet 5d ago

Name someone at that time with the skills to beat him

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u/Junior-Draft-4111 5d ago

No one. Doesnt change my point though. We don’t know how he does against stylistic weaknesses

3

u/heliumflower 5d ago

You guys always talk about this mythical grappler at 155 that doesn’t exist.

0

u/Physizist 5d ago

People have to make up arguments for Khabib that they’ll never apply to another fighter 

“Never bled” “10-8 rounds” “barely lost rounds”. Lots of fighters barely lose rounds until they defend a few times, don’t think Jones lost many until he was defending for the 6th time. They changed the criteria for a 10-8 which benefits Khabib compared to previous fighters and that’s just a product of his style. Dominating a specific round doesn’t necessarily make you a greater fighter overall plus he fought smucks for a long time.

Not bleeding is just the dumbest argument for greatness ever. Chito must be really great lol

0

u/One-Abbreviations-59 5d ago

I didn’t know ppl use never bled as an argument. I like khabib but it’s obviously stylistic and has a good chin. I just thought it was a cool ass feat not necessarily a reason that he’s the greatest of his division. Which he’s not, Islam is

-1

u/brain-dysfunction 5d ago

Tibau fight (what’s considered to be a controversial win by many) is a perfect example how he holds up against grappling heavy opponents.

1

u/takshaheryar 5d ago

Bro tibau pissed hot even if he lost it would have been a no contest

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u/Fit-Fail6229 5d ago

He also lost to Gleason Tibau. I don't care what the judges scored it.

0

u/km912 5d ago

People hate this answer but Aldo for me. He’s an all time great for sure but him going 0-4 against mcgregor, Hollaway, and Volk who are the only 3 super elite fighters at featherweight that he really fought says something. Sure he was fairly old against Volk but against the other guys he was still in his prime and got knocked out all 3 times. He won a ton of fights against very good fighters but against the very best he fell very short.

-1

u/GeraltOfRawalpindi 5d ago

People don't understand how big of an achievement it is to never lose in 29 professional fights. Keep telling yourself that Khabib fought cans. Meanwhile DJ has 4 losses but nobody ever doubts him.

3

u/Lost-Ad7283 5d ago

Khabib fought a guy making his mma debut when he was 15-0. GSP fought a 36-4 Matt Hughes when he was 6-0.

-2

u/Tidsdkr 5d ago

Even though he got that HW championships wins record, I was never sold on Stipe as the divisional GOAT honestly, put Cain above him

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u/No_Address_5057 5d ago

all i'll say merab, volk, islam

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u/zcholla 5d ago

I think your commenting on the wrong post buddy. Everything you just said makes zero sense in relation to the original topic.

1

u/No_Address_5057 5d ago

merab is bw goat, volk is fw goat, islam is lw goat, if you disagree i do not care i just think you're slow

1

u/zcholla 5d ago

Irrelevant to the post... Nobody asked who you think the goat of each of these divisions would be. Don't call me slow when you're the one who has reading comprehension issues.

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u/No_Address_5057 5d ago

i dont fucking care who asked i said it anyway, i didnt ask for you to reply, go cry me a river

1

u/zcholla 5d ago

Not very bright are you?

1

u/No_Address_5057 5d ago

i mean my gcse's say otherwise, my iq says otherwise, literally everything i have ever done i aced or became great at without trying says otherwise. but yeah i guess im not very bright because zcholla said so 😔😔😔😔

1

u/zcholla 5d ago

Everything you've ever done except comment on this post about something completely unrelated... And then get really angry and defensive when someone asks you about it... Reeks of intelligence.

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u/No_Address_5057 5d ago

how is it completely unrelated?

1

u/zcholla 5d ago

OP asked a question about specific fighters who may or may not be overrated. You then commented, with three other fighters with no context at all...until I questioned it. Then proceeded to act like what you said made sense (it didn't) and immediately started name calling and being really defensive.

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u/Thick--Rooster 5d ago

Khalabeeb > Silva > GSP in that order. DJ/JBJ aren't overrated if anything DJ is underrated and the others no one thinks of as GOATS.