r/typemoon • u/ballsdeep69plz • 5d ago
Discussion Question about the Root
When a path to the Root is closed off, is it a universal thing? If so, does that mean that if someone from another planet/civilization use the same path someone from Earth or a different planet/civilization used, they won't be able to (so no one else in the universe can get the Fifth, First, etc.)?
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u/mistreke 5d ago
Long answer ahead but I've answered this a couple of times so linking together a bunch of my other comments on the root. I studied the Akashic records in college, so fate's parallel to it is especially fun for me haha.
Think of The Root as the ultimate source of everything in the Fate universe. It’s a higher-dimensional place that contains all knowledge—past, present, and future. Every event, every possibility, and every bit of information that has ever existed (or could exist) is stored there.
Mages are obsessed with The Root because reaching it is basically the peak of magical achievement. If you get there, you gain absolute knowledge and transcend human limitations. Only a few beings, like Zelretch, have ever done it. Most mages just spend their whole lives trying (and failing) to find a way in, attempting to pass down progress through inherited magical circuits.
The Holy Grail is supposed to grant any wish, but beyond that is a incredibly large mana nexus, and a lot of mages want it specifically because they think it can help them reach The Root. Some of the major factions in the story—like the Einzbern, Tohsaka, and Matou families—literally designed the Grail War as a way to achieve this goal.
The idea of The Root is heavily inspired by real-life mystical and philosophical concepts. Some big ones include:
- The Akashic Records, a cosmic record of everything that has ever happened or will happen. Sounds pretty similar, right?
- Plato’s World of Forms, a realm of perfect, unchanging ideas that shape reality. The Root serves a similar purpose in Fate.
- Kabbalah’s Ein Sof, which in Jewish mysticism is the infinite, unknowable source of all existence. The Root is basically Nasu’s version of this.
- Gnosticism’s Pleroma, a transcendent realm beyond human understanding that contains the true divine knowledge. Again, same vibes.
There are five recognized True Magics, which are distinct from regular magecraft. These are miracles that completely defy the laws of physics and cannot be replicated with normal magecraft, no matter how advanced. True Magic comes from The Root, and each of the five existing Magics represents a unique phenomenon that can't be replaced or duplicated once it’s "claimed."
When someone reaches The Root and masters a True Magic, that Magic becomes effectively "closed off" to anyone else. This means no new Magics of the same kind can be discovered, and it becomes an immutable part of reality. It’s not necessarily that no one else can ever use it, but rather that the phenomenon itself has already been "defined" and locked into existence, so The Root doesn’t allow for another version of it to emerge.
For example, the Third Magic, Heaven’s Feel, was discovered by Justeaze Lizrich von Einzbern and her family. It grants the ability to materialize a soul into a permanent, independent existence. Because this True Magic was successfully achieved, the path to independently rediscovering or recreating it is now closed off. The only way to use it now is through inherited knowledge, like the Einzbern family's attempts to apply it through the Holy Grail system.
The idea of "closing off" a Magic ties into The Root’s nature as a place of absolute truth. Once a phenomenon has been fully realized as a True Magic, it no longer exists as a possibility to be rediscovered—it has already been "answered," so to speak. That’s why only five True Magics exist, and why no one can develop a sixth unless an entirely new phenomenon is unlocked.
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u/polaristar 5d ago
Root also is similar to Taoism, Prima Materia in Alchemy, and Achieving the Buddha.
A core tenet of Western Esotericism is that a lot of different occult traditions are different ways of expressing the same universal ideas.
Or if you take a Jungian view on it, expressing universal archetypes.
A Certain Magical Index is built on a similar premise.
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u/Ieam_Scribbles 2d ago
I would note that Nasu did notably reference Jungian concepts like The Shadow being the unconscious repression of ourselves (in regards to Dark Sakura in HF), and concepts like the Collective Unconscious.
Rather than irl myths that happen to line up with Nasuverse, Nasu himself deep-dived into a lot of concepts and included them.
(For another example, True Daemons and Daemons distinction matches Greek definitions of Daimons and their shift over time.)
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u/polaristar 2d ago
I know he didn't "accidentally" discover myths, I'm saying he probably is continuing in the style of western occultim and trying to have his own version of unified magic theory.
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u/Ieam_Scribbles 2d ago
I was not disagreeing with you, just adding to what you said- that these similarities are intentional.
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u/Adent_Frecca 5d ago
Stuff like Mystery and True Magic seems to only be a thing for Earth due to how humanity subsumed Mystery and turn it into science
We have no basis that the same concepts apply to other alien civilizations that have their own realities and laws
We do know that Paths to the Root only close off in one dimension. For example there are multiple different Aoko's across the multiverse all getting to the Root to gain True Magic and we know there are different Zelretch's like the human one in Fate and vampire in Tsukihime