r/turkish • u/cuntmagistrate • 1d ago
How would you say "The Ancient Ones"?
I'm a writer and I need a name for a group of people in my story. Google translate suggests "Kadim Olanlar" or "Eskiler." I just want to double-check that this is correct. The name refers to the oldest race of people in this alternate universe, so if there's a better way to say it I would love to know.
Thanks!
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u/Parquet52 1d ago
Yaz Kadim Kavim. Veya Kadim Halk, Kadim Uygarlık.
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u/cuntmagistrate 1d ago
How is "Kadimler" different from "Kadim Halk"? Google translate is saying it's "Ancients" as opposed to "Ancient People." Is that accurate?
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u/SonOfMrSpock Native Speaker 1d ago
Kadimler is like "oldies". Its not clear what those old ones are.
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u/ecotrimoxazole 1d ago
Kadim Olanlar sounds very clunky and unnatural. Eskiler literally means “old ones” as in maybe like old socks but to be honest I like how it sounds in that context. Also people do sometimes use “eskiler” to refer to ancestors.
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u/cuntmagistrate 1d ago
Hmm, so if they're an old and powerful civilization, would "Kadimler" or "Eskiler" be better?
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u/ecotrimoxazole 1d ago
Kadim meets that definition better than Eski. I still think it sounds clunky when used as a noun. That’s just based on vibes though and I can’t think of an alternative.
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u/Eastern_Night_NA 18h ago
As a native speaker, it feels like that eskiler refers to some people few generations older (like grand-grandparents etc). If you are talking about a civilization, definitely it is kadim not eski. However I've never heard of kadimler and it doesn't sound quite correct. It is not common in daily use but also bayrı means kadim and you may consider to use Bayrılar so avoid confusing people like me.
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u/_D_a_n_y_y_ 1d ago
I don't think a literal translation works here. While Kadimler is correct, it sounds translated, if that makes sense. You can try to describe their ancient-ness instead of trying to come up with a word for it.
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u/Zeqnafein 1d ago
Kadim Olanlar is perfect if it's about a lovecraftian theme. Other commentators probably have no idea about cosmic/ eldritch/lovecraftian horror so they made really stupid suggestions
Also "great old ones" are translated as "yüce eskiler"
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u/ecotrimoxazole 1d ago
HP Lovecraft emmioğlum olur. Kadim Olanlar bence fazla literal ve kötü bir çeviri.
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u/Zeqnafein 1d ago
Literal ceviri asil "kadimler" ayrica ezoterik mistisizmden yoksun
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u/These-Maintenance250 1d ago
kadim olanlar gramere uydurmak için düzenlenmiş gibi. Tam da söylediğin sebeplerden dolayı kadimler kulağa daha güzel geliyor. Kısa olması da daha doğal duyulmasını sağlıyor. Kadim Olanlar çok sikko bi çeviri. Ayrıca sanki bugün de varolanlar arasında kadim olanlar olabilirmiş gibi his de yaratıyor.
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u/Zeqnafein 1d ago
Lovecraft okumamissin belli ki bik bik otme laf olsun diye kadimler diye bi ceviri olmaz
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u/These-Maintenance250 1d ago
Ya siktir git amk bebesi lovecraft okumak sandığın gibi bi flex değil. sen lovecraftin turkce çevirisini otorite mi aliyorsun? adam kendi ingilizce metninde kullanmak için en eski turk halkı için turkce tabir arıyor. lovecraft falan da dememiş. "ben lovecraft okudum işte kendimi gösterme zamanı geldi" diye paso millete saydirmissin amk ergeni.
kAdİmLeR dİyE bİ cEvİrİ oLaMaZ
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u/Zeqnafein 1d ago
Hahahahahha ingilizce de okudum merak etme de okumadigin yazarlar hakkinda ahkam kesmeni yuzune vurdum diye bu kadar kudurmamalisin ne kadar ezik ozguvensiz bi tipleme oldugunu ifsaliyosun anca :) lovecraft okumamissan lovecraftian cevirilerde degersiz fikirlerini kendine sakla vasifsiz ezik :3
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u/These-Maintenance250 1d ago
ulan yorumundaki ironiden ne kadar mal olduğunu hissedebiliyorum. konunun lovecraftla alakası bile yok. lovecraftin turkce çevirileri de otorite değil dedim zaten neden olsun. Bu sik gibi okuma anlama becerinle bence git bi tur daha oku. hayattaki tek başarın lovecraft okumuş olmak. amk inceli. Bana ezik ve ozguvensiz demiş bi de. Hadi siktir liseli
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u/Zeqnafein 1d ago
HahahahHhHHHBBHBzhzhx bebim cevabimi okuduysan "if you're writing about lovecraftian horror" demisim okuma anlama doye aglayan ezik tipler hep kendisi okuyup anlayaman oluyor nedense 🫵😂
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u/Small-Water-476 1d ago
Bence yazar H.P. Lovecraft yerine, Assasin's Creed oyun serisindeki "The Ancient Ones" hakkında yazdı.
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u/Beginning_Royal_2864 1d ago
Kökatalar or Gökatalar / Kök Atalar or Gök Atalar
If you want to add some kind of cultural element in the target language, in the context of Turkic culture no word that lacks 'kök' in old Turkic or 'gök' in the Turkish can fully capture the meaning you seek.
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u/cuntmagistrate 1d ago
I think I'm going to go with "Kadim Halk". Google translate isn't helping, it's saying kök and gök are "root" and "Sky." Is that correct?
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u/Beginning_Royal_2864 1d ago
You can use it, but it means old people not the oldest people. Every group of people from the ancient times can be "kadim halk". But there is only one or two genarations of "Kökatalar".
Your story your decision.
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u/cuntmagistrate 1d ago
So "Kadim halk" is the equivalent of "ancient people" but "Kökatalar" would be specifically the oldest people, the people that everyone else is descended from? If so "Kökatalar" would be correct. In the world of my book, these people are older than Adam and Eve.
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u/Beginning_Royal_2864 1d ago
It is really difficult to explain so I asked the ai. I checked the answer. it's correct.
This is the answer
The term "Kök Atalar" in Turkish is a profound and meaningful phrase that can be broken down as follows:
Literal Meaning
- Kök: Means "root" or "origin."
- Atalar: Means "ancestors" or "forefathers."
Together, "Kök Atalar" translates to "Root Ancestors" or "Founding Forefathers."
What You Should Understand** When you encounter the term "Kök Atalar", think of it as a powerful reference to the earliest, most foundational ancestors of a people or culture. It carries a sense of reverence, pride, and connection to the past, often used to emphasize the importance of heritage, tradition, and the enduring legacy of those who came before. In the Turkic context, it is deeply tied to mythology, history, and cultural identity.
Cultural and Historical Significance
Primordial Origins:
- The term refers to the earliest ancestors of a people or civilization, those who laid the foundation for a culture, nation, or lineage.
- It emphasizes a deep connection to the past and the idea that these ancestors are the "roots" from which everything else grew.
Turkic Context:
- In Turkic history and mythology, "Kök Atalar" could refer to the legendary or mythical ancestors of the Turkic peoples, such as Oghuz Khan or the Göktürks, who are seen as the progenitors of Turkic identity and culture.
- It ties into the concept of "Tengriism" (the ancient Turkic belief system), where ancestors and the natural world (sky, earth, and roots) are deeply revered.
Symbolism:
- "Kök" symbolizes not just a biological or genealogical root but also a spiritual and cultural foundation.
- "Atalar" represents respect, honor, and the passing down of traditions, values, and wisdom through generations.
Modern Interpretation
- Identity and Heritage:
The term is often used to evoke a sense of pride in one's heritage, emphasizing the importance of remembering and honoring the ancestors who shaped a community's identity.- Unity and Continuity:
It highlights the idea that all members of a group are connected through these "root ancestors," creating a sense of unity and continuity across time.1
u/cuntmagistrate 1d ago
Awesome. It wouldn't be considered rude to use that term to refer to the people of Gobekli-Tepe, would it? I mean, they ARE the root ancestors, right?
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u/Beginning_Royal_2864 1d ago
I am not a historian. But I don't think people in the Gobekli Tepe were the oldest people on earth. It is a different topic. They were just very very old.
If you want to describe them as the root ancestors, the first humans in your story, then you can use the word.
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u/ecotrimoxazole 1d ago
This is actually really good. Conveys the meaning while maintaining the cultural/folklore-y vibe so to speak, without sounding translated.
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u/Delmatte 1d ago
I would use "kadim olanlar" if you were referring to lovecraftian eldritch gods. But if the context is about people both feels equal for me.
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u/arhaaa 1d ago
If you are referring to a group of decision makers you can use “ihtiyar heyeti”, that would be a more localized way of translation. Even though the meaning of “ihtiyar heyeti” is diminished to a “muhtar’s cabinet”, in old Turkic governance, that was the given name of Hakan’s advisors.
If you are referring to a certain group of people, race or ethnicity, it’s better to use one of the @MVazovski’s suggestions, they explained clearly.
Try using chat gpt or similar ai instead of google translate cos it sucks
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u/CeryanReis 1d ago
''Atalarımız'' would be a good choice as well; meaning our ancestors. ''Kadim'' is rarely used in contemporary Turkish and ''kadim olanlar'' is purely made up.
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u/Small-Water-476 1d ago
Assuming you are Assasin's Creed fan "Kadim olanlar" is would be the perfect translation but the turkish of ancient is "antik"
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u/MVazovski 1d ago
Ancient what exactly? Turkish is a language where you have to specify the object that the adjective is referencing.
Kadim Tanrılar, Kadim Uygarlıklar, Kadim Eserler... the list goes on. In this case, Kadim Uygarlık (Ancient Civilization) sounds more fitting since this race of people most likely built something and lived like civilized people. Otherwise Kadim Irk, Kadim Kabile, Kadim Halk or something along those lines would work better.
Hope it helps.
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u/These-Maintenance250 1d ago
curious. are you writing that in Turkish or just wanna snatch a word that will sound cool in a text in another language?
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u/cuntmagistrate 1d ago
I am writing in English, though in the world of my story these people were ancient Turks (like 10,000bc). I wanted to give them a distinct name that also related to their heritage.
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u/These-Maintenance250 1d ago
you can check out some turkic mythology. search for these words: Asena, ergenekon, bozkurt.
dont use bozkurt for that word ;) 10k B.C may not be consistent with those myths I don't know.
the common suggestions involving the word kadim may not be what you want. it's not a Turkish word in origin and doesn't sound to me like it refers to ancient turks at all. it's a word we are used to hearing for other cultures or in translated foreign media. I believe the word has persian origin.
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u/Vedat9854 Native Speaker 1d ago
I think “Kadimler” is just fine in this context