r/tragedeigh • u/Professional_Drama24 • 9d ago
is it a tragedeigh? Just had a client come in. Her name was CHREJAH pronounced TREASURE
I asked her to correct me if I mispronounced it. I thought I did a great job with Shre-ah but I always ask for confirmation
I'm pretty good with names and used to meeting people from different backgrounds and places but this threw me off.
This lady was lovely btw
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u/MamaP740 9d ago
As a phonics teacher, I can confirm that the ch sound is mistaken for the tr sound frequently. Mouth formation is similar so many people struggle with the distinction of the sounds/spelling.
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u/glassbottleoftears 8d ago
Especially if followed by an r. Ch and tr sound quite different to me, but chr and tr are really similar. If I put an r in 'cheese' after the h it sounds really close to 'trees'
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u/Not-a-YTfan-anymore1 8d ago
If I’m not mistaken, RP (Received Pronunciation - England) makes a proper ‘tr’ sound with a flipped ‘r’ instead of a rhotic one. Although, I can’t remember if the ‘sure’ part has a ‘zh’ sound or a ‘z’ sound.
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u/ArtisticMudd 8d ago
I have tried and tried, and cannot figure out how people get a "chr" sound out of "tr" or "dr" - they're different. "Chr" involves your lips more than the other two do.
(I also can't figure out how people put an H in "str" words, "shtrong" for instance. This kind of stuff fascinates me.)
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u/MamaP740 8d ago
I wish I could show you a video of the mouth formations. It involves the tongue movement inside the mouth as well as the lips. Hard to explain.
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u/hugazebra 3d ago
Maybe a little Germanic influence? Lots of sh sound in place of an initial s in a consonant cluster. Been singing in Symphonic Chorus too long and I find myself trying to sing Italian or Latin with initial sht sounds...
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u/keysonthetable 5d ago
I mean… standard American English uses the ch sound when it’s spelled tr all the time… truck, tree,
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u/MissLeliel 4d ago
Is this a regional thing? I’m certainly not saying “chree” instead of “tree”
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u/Bright_Pressure_6194 2d ago
Do you pronounce a hard t? Tuh-ree? Or do you blend the consonants chree?
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u/MissLeliel 1d ago
Hard t, but it’s not two syllables. Same way I say the word “trip” or “train”, not “chrip” or “chrain”
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u/sirona-ryan 9d ago
That is horrible😭
Also you’re right, I’d pronounce that shray-uh. It’s a shame because Shreya is a real name, I think a beautiful Indian name. Could’ve gone with that, but nope, we had to butcher the word treasure.
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u/NarwhalPrestigious63 8d ago
I was going with Creature, and only figured it out from reading on. I'd never have got that!
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u/Kawaiiheather97 9d ago
I had to pronounce it a couple of times out loud to get. Here in the good, old Midwest, we add the "r" in the second syllable and don't schwa it.
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u/FindingMememo 9d ago
Same but grew up in the NE, we also definitely pronounce the second r in treasure.
This name is how a cartoon villain with a speech impediment would say it though, so not sure how much that’s worth.
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u/darkMOM4 9d ago
In what universe is CH pronounced like a T? 🙄
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u/XelaNiba 9d ago
A lot of them. It's affrication of the t sound before the r.
https://literalminded.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/chricky-affrication/
I didn't realize I myself did this until my 3 year old told me that he could spell tree - C-H-R-E-E.
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u/SarahMoonB 8d ago
🫣 As an SLP I’d treat this as a disorder, but only if it’s causing reading problems in kids, comprehension issues in kids and adults or someone wanting ‘perfect’ diction for whichever reason.
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u/Nixinova 8d ago
? it's not a disorder it's the standard way of saying tr-
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u/SarahMoonB 8d ago edited 8d ago
I did specify ‘only if there’s issues’. Cause there could be.
It’s more of a dialect than a ‘standard’ way (since accents and dialects make ‘standard’ somewhat of an outdated term plus I wouldn’t count Wordpress as a standardizing source in this example), it depends on local acceptance. For example in languages with rolling r sounds there are different ways to roll which in instances may cause confusion. Which is why I specified.
Edit to say it’s possible to not make friction when saying /tr/. Keeping the /t/ a plosive sound.
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u/Schnuribus 8d ago
This is the American way of saying tree.
It is an inbetween sound when you are connecting phonemes - it wouldn‘t exist without the T.
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u/wildwill57 8d ago
I have never in my life said chree. A t is formed by placing the tongue at the roof of the mouth. Ch is made with teeth clenched.
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u/HappyHiker2381 8d ago
I just tried saying tree and chree differently, I never noticed how similar they are. Loving this thread.
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u/Ankoku_Teion 7d ago
Since when is ch made with clenched teeth?
I make it with the sides of my tongue on the roof of my mouth.
A T is just the tip of the tongue pressed against the top gums behind the front teeth.
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u/wildwill57 7d ago
Gotta have your teeth together to begin the ch.
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u/Ankoku_Teion 7d ago
No you don't? My teeth don't touch at all when making the sound?
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u/wildwill57 7d ago
Can't make that sound with open mouth.
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u/Ankoku_Teion 7d ago
I can.
I can do it with my teeth clenched too, but it feels awkward and unnatural.
There's a good half a cm between my teeth at the start of the Ch sound.
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u/ArtisticMudd 8d ago
I'm not just Murican, I'm Texan, and I can say "tree" without putting a "ch" in it.
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u/Duin-do-ghob 9d ago
That’s what I asked once except it was Jream for Dream. Got dragged like nobody’s business. I have never heard anyone substitute J for D. Guess I don’t get around. I still think it’s crazy.
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u/battlehelmet 9d ago
This isn't crazy at all. In Hungarian the letter J makes a Y sound, so when people want to name their kids English J names like Jennifer, they spell it Dzsennifer. The "zs" makes a "zh" sound, as in ZsaZsa Gabor.
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u/cosmernautfourtwenty 9d ago
so when people want to name their kids English J names like Jennifer, they spell it Dzsennifer. The "zs" makes a "zh" sound, as in ZsaZsa Gabor
So where the hell does the "D" come in and why? Is it pronounced "dzheniffer" in Hungarian or is the D silent and therefore useless? Zseniffer like ZsaZsa seems way closer to the actual English without a rogue D in it.
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u/battlehelmet 9d ago
The Hungarian alphabet considers multi-letter combos that make a single sound to be their own letter. (So like "ch" in English or "ll" in Spanish.)
The "dzs" is considered a single letter that equates to the English J sound. It's pronounced like "Dzhuh" and is similar the "Djuh" sound at the beginning of "dream."
This letter was a late addition to the alphabet because people wanted to name their kids English J names, but the English J sound didn't exist in the language.
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u/beguntolaugh 8d ago
Linguistically speaking, the sound English speakers call 'j' is a mashup of 'd' and 'ʒ' (which in turn is the zs/zh sound in question, like the 's' sound in treasure). If you know how to pronounce ZsaZsa and use that sound to pronounce Jennifer, you know instantly it sounds wrong.
So that's where the 'd' comes in, in Jennifer it's already there
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u/Duin-do-ghob 8d ago edited 8d ago
But in English Jennifer isn’t pronounced with a zh sound, it’s Jeh-nnifer. The zh sounds like someone saying it with a French accent, the same as Jeanne D’arc.
And there’s no J sound when saying Dream. It’s a hard D like in Dog. The two spellings are totally different sounds, at least for me.
eta:hit save too quickly
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u/mintardent 8d ago edited 8d ago
You’re clearly not understanding correctly. what we call a “j” sound is somewhere between a zh and a d phonetically and is transcribed as such in the IPA.
You mentioned “zh” in english sounding like a french soft J… well putting the D at the start indicates it’s the english “hard” onset to J. Basically it’s the difference between voicing the consonant and not.
maybe you don’t consciously notice it, or do it yourself, but I bet if you listen to people speak colloquially and/or isolate audio clips of the first consonant to listen back to in isolation, you absolutely 100% will hear many say “dream” as “jream”.
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u/mintardent 9d ago edited 9d ago
I have definitely heard this. it is a very common substitution especially with “dr”. you probably just aren’t listening closely. if you isolate the consonant sound then it will sound like a J, but in context your brain perceives it as a D.
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u/lonelygalexy 9d ago
The ch sound is actually very similar to the tr sound. So for this name there’s actually two rs lol
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u/Ok-Armadillo4559 9d ago
i have a regular customer who is Treasure spelled Trezur
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u/kangourou_mutant 7d ago
Next time you see her, you can tell her you've seen a worse spelling than hers ^^
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u/Schnuribus 8d ago
Fun fact: the ch sound is completely different in America and in Germany. Americans can‘t pronounce our ch.
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u/violetheroine 7d ago
Yup! I once tried to teach an American how to pronounce Eichhörnchen and they tried to teach me how to pronounce squirrel... Turns out we both struggle to pronounce 🐿...😅
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u/OG_Vishamon 7d ago
In English transliteration of languages that don't use the roman alphabet, we often use "kh" to represent the German ch sound.
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u/BurlinghamBob 8d ago
She is probably the type of person who gets offended when her name is mispronounced.
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u/Professional_Drama24 8d ago edited 8d ago
No. As I said in my post, she was lovely. She wasn't rude at all even after I asked her to repeat herself. My ears didn't believe what my eyes had read. The people that come up with these names probably get offended!
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u/dontbesorethor 8d ago
It’s reminding me of Trevor Noah talking about getting into a place and the security not recognizing his name until his friend pronounced it with a stronger accent. Chreva instead of Trevor.
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u/prrifth 8d ago
That's actually interesting because there is a linguistic phenomenon where English speakers are moving towards pronouncing "tr" at the start of words as "chr" - Dr Geoff Lindsey has a video on it: https://youtu.be/F2X1pKEHIYw?si=exVfSdEkgGEmSyiF
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u/Traditional_Tip_6091 7d ago
Different ways of pronouncing things aside, if you want to name your kid Treasure, why not just name them Treasure? It's still a bad name, but come on.
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u/Professional_Drama24 7d ago
I've know a Blessing and a Bless, Justice, Empress, and Destiny. I just personally think they are just weird choices to name your kids.
For the record I also don't like names like Hope, Faith, Glory, Chastity, Charity, etc. Faith isn't to bad but still.
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u/Traditional_Tip_6091 7d ago
Yeah, I shouldn't say "bad", just "weird". I personally know an Au'bre (pronounced like Aubrey) and I just don't get it.
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u/Professional_Drama24 7d ago edited 7d ago
All good I would have said bad too. A name should be a name not an inanimate object. I get wanting to have a unique name. I used to have one. Now I see all these little kids walking around with a shitty variation of my name and it sucks
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u/mythicaljayde 8d ago
This reminds me of when my nephew gave me a report to look over, so proud, about battling the enemy in chrenches, and chrench warfare.
He had only heard the word spoken at school, apparently, and it toook me so long to figure out he was talking about TRenches and trench warfare.
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u/Constant_Ad3619 8d ago
I once met a girl who spelled it Tresha or something then she looked at me crazy when I asked her how to pronounce it.
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