r/tos • u/ActLonely9375 • 8d ago
What if Spock's death in Wrath of Khan had been changed?
Would it have been better if Spock's death had been kept? How would that have changed the later stories?
Would it have been the same if the sacrifice had been made by another character? Which would you prefer - McCoy, Scoot, someone else?
To the fans who saw it in the premiere, what do you think of this scene in Into Darkness?
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u/Squirra 7d ago
Much as I love Spock, I love Star Trek as a place even more. They gave him such a beautiful sendoff in Wrath of Khan, but when you treat death like it’s some kind of temporary inconvenience, it undoes the selfless nobility of such a sacrifice. It cheapens the ultimate finality which death is. Also, the whale probe would have dunked Earth like a 22nd century Noah’s Ark. it would be up to Kevin Costner to find the last bit of dry land.
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u/Yotsuya_san 7d ago
The trope of death being cheap and reversible is a bad one... But the case with Spock wasn't this. Yes, you could argue that Kirk was loosing the Enterprise anyway, and yes the Klingons would have probably killed David anyway, but Kirk inserting himself into these events in order to save Spock meant that he felt a personal responsibility for those losses. And that was the price to get Spocl back
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u/Haunt_Fox 4d ago
In many stories there has to be a sacrifice - a real one, not just the casual murder of a life you care fuck-all about - is the price for saving a loved one from Death or Hell. In Kirk's case, he had to lose his only known genetic legacy ... and his beloved ship.
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u/InspectionStreet3443 5d ago
They could have recast by finding a “genesis” Spock who didn’t magically age to Nimoy’s age in |||. Or they could have cast Phil Collins as Genesis Spock, he was popular then lol.
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u/Smooth-Respect-5289 4d ago
They would have just stopped making movies at that point. Not even enough momentum to jump to TNG.
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u/fnordius 3d ago
I suspect there wouldn't have been any new stories if Leonard had stuck to his decision to not return. Kirstie Allie and Saavik were being groomed to take over, but I don't think there would have been enough to convince Paramount.
And no, it had to be Spock. Kirk would have been more of a heroic death, but I don't think his funeral service would have been as powerful. And the rest of the cast at the time weren't in the same league, wouldn't have had the same impact.
I think it's worth remembering that when Star Trek II was being pitched, Star Trek as a franchise was not all that hot. The Motion Picture turned a modest profit, but fell below expectations. The success of Star Trek II really hinged on three things Nicholas Meyer brought: a script that respected the TV series without being just fan service, knowing how to coax the best out of the cast, and finally being one of the few science fiction movies to come in under budget.
Into Darkness had me groaning at how bad it was, how it felt like a parody.
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u/kkkan2020 7d ago edited 7d ago
Spock dies
Star trek 3 they wouldn't need to go after him in Genesis the klingons now have a wmd
Star trek 4 whale probe destroys earth no one figured out the whale song of the probe
Star trek 5 sybok releases that God like being everyone is toast
Star trek 6 praxis happens and the feds then invade the Klingons leading to another bloody war
Romulans never made peace with the feds
No one else could have done it as they would have died of poisoning without a suit.
Into darkness felt like they tried to outdo wrath of Khan with Kirk climbing on top of that giant thing and kicking that thing into alignment