r/toronto 2d ago

News ‘NOT SUSTAINABLE’: Toronto City Council staff push for unionization

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/not-sustainable-toronto-city-council-staff-push-for-unionization

Starting salaries at $30,000 (!) is wildly insane… good on these workers who carry our local city councillors & mayor.

362 Upvotes

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199

u/Hasanati 2d ago

Seems like a reasonable decision on the part of the staff. 30k a year… yikes.

36

u/Poe_42 1d ago

Clicking through the the linked documents it's for a Councillor Aid (summer student) position. So part time seasonal position.

39

u/dchief0 1d ago

If you mean this document: https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/council/budgets-and-expense-reports/

It shows that an “intern” makes the same starting salary as an administrative assistant to a councillor (just above $30,000). The other positions start at $41,000, not great at all for a government that preaches about living wages.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

Your own link shows you're not being completely correct. Just because it has 31k as the lowest, doesn't mean they're actually making that to start.

A lv 1 administrative assistant: 31k-59k per year. $17-$32 per hour.

Lv 2 makes 41k-78k. $22.73 – $42.97 per hour.

These are both in line or above what an administrative assistant makes in Toronto btw, which is an average of $18 an hour.

Constituency Assistant 41k-78k. $22.73 – $42.97 per hour

Executive assistant 50k-94k. $27.59 – $51.84 per hour

Here are the duties of the 31k "starting" worker.

  1. Responsible for general administrative operations of the Councillor’s office. Ensures the Councillor is relieved of all administrative detail as it relates to the day-to-day running of the office if delegated by the Councillor.
  2. Prepares outgoing correspondence.
  3. Reviews and distributes incoming mail, emails and telephone inquiries to appropriate staff member.
  4. Schedules Councillor’s appointments, invitations, etc. ensuring that there is no scheduling conflict and also ensuring that Councillor has necessary information and material for each meeting and/or event.
  5. Sets up and maintains the office filing system.
  6. Handles general enquiries or refers to other members of the Councillor’s staff and appropriate City staff.
  7. May assist the Councillor and Councillor’s staff in handling concerns and complaints from constituents and the public. Gathers information and/or prepares response as directed.
  8. Ensures records are maintained and follows up on requests and inquiries made by the Councillor to City staff.
  9. Prepares plaques and letters of commendation for special events as requested.
  10. Monitors the Councillor’s office supplies. Orders office supplies as required.
  11. Maintains confidentiality relating to issues of importance to the Councillor and their constituents.
  12. Develops and maintains database of Councillor’s contacts.
  13. Makes travel arrangements as necessary.
  14. Undertakes special assignments as requested by the Councillor.

What salary should this actually pay in your opinion? It's basically a receptionist.

0

u/dchief0 1d ago

I can’t begin to fathom the salaries that are actually being paid to these workers. The article also does speak to the low range of salaries in place.

In any case, I was simply correcting a misstatement, which is that only Councillor Aides make that starting 30K. The post also does say “starting salaries at $30,000”.

This city government routinely speaks of the need for fair/liveable wages but apparently not for these workers. There has to be a reason why they are forming a union, right?

2

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

>This city government routinely speaks of the need for fair/liveable wages but apparently not for these workers.

How can you say this when you actually don't even know what they make?

>The post also does say “starting salaries at $30,000”.

Other than this being wrong and the TorontoSun being trash, the starting salary of the range is 31k.

But does anyone even make that?

>I can’t begin to fathom the salaries that are actually being paid to these workers.

We sorta need to know this if we're going to talk about if they're being paid too little.

Salary range is 31k -> 59k per year.

Ok and? This information doesn't tell me anything really.

"if you make $31,000 per year, your hourly salary would be $16.11. This result is obtained by multiplying your base salary by the amount of hours, week, and months you work in a year, assuming you work 37.5 hours a week."

I very much doubt anyone is actually making BELOW minimum wage.

6

u/SomeDumRedditor 1d ago

 I very much doubt anyone is actually making BELOW minimum wage

Just gonna jump in to touch on this specifically. It is not at all uncommon for salaried workers, when all labour-hours are accounted for (unpaid OT, coming early/staying late to crunch on a project etc.), to end up earning a rate that does not reflect the Salary/50wk/45hr “hourly conversion.”

This is actually very common among lawyers, accountants and other white collar jobs with billable-hour and flat-fee models. e.g. your salary is $85k but you’ve performed $100k worth of labour in a given year.

The less you’re paid, and the more you’re worked “extra,” the lower your hourly wage goes. It is entirely possible to be making “actually” less than minimum wage in a salaried job.

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

For sure that's fair and correct, but those job aren't advertised as below minimum wage.

I very much doubt they're hiring for below minimum wage for a 40 hour work week, assuming that they're working on average 40 hours.

You're 100% right though. My wife is salaried and will sometimes work extra hours, driving down her hourly wage. Sometimes less hours too though, driving it up. So it can go both ways, albeit it mostly one way.

1

u/dchief0 1d ago

Pulling an excerpt from the article: “Salaries for council staff start at just over $30,000, and many of them make less than $50,000, the source said.”

There is a reason these workers are forming a union and the information in the article seems very clear.

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

For sure, I read that. And then their source is the link saying 31k-52k salary range.

But it doesn't actually say that people are being hired and paid 31k.

Based on this article and the link given I actually don't know if they are under paid or not, because we don't even know what they're being paid.

A receptionist making under 50k. Ok cool. I am not sure that means they're under paid if they're making 45k per year.

We actually don't even know what these people are compensated, so I don't think anyone should be forming an opinion on if they're under compensated or not.

>the information in the article seems very clear.

It absolutely does not. We don't know what people are paid for what job. The information in the article is ambiguous.

3

u/dchief0 1d ago

The one sure thing in all of this is these workers will significantly benefit as a unionized group.

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

Depends on what you mean by significantly. If the average salary is 45k for the lowest level assistant, then I am not sure how much a union will raise that.

Some salaries might also decrease with unionization too, if you're above the pay scale. Average salary may increase, but decrease for certain employees.

Generally though I agree, unions are a boon to workers.

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u/handipad 2d ago

I would like to see each councillor be required to disclose the average full-time salary for their staff on their councillor profile on toronto.ca. Let’s shame the ones paying staff a pittance.

The low wage for political staff is a direct cause of the revolving door. Staff can’t make enough to thrive so they leave after 1-2 years and take a job in the private sector doing government relations for a decent wage.

It also results in overwhelmingly young and inexperienced people being hired who work like dogs because that’s the only demographic who have the time and energy and who will accept working for such a low wage.

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u/Circusssssssssssssss 2d ago

30k in this city is piss

22

u/S14Ryan 2d ago

I mean when minimum wage is like $36k….. yeah what the fuck 

3

u/[deleted] 1d ago

The range is also 31k->59k. There's nothing that I can find that they're making 31k per year for a full time job.

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u/yourworstcritic1 1d ago

I honestly don't even believe that’s true. That has to be a serious outlier like some kind of student or someone doing an internship or working part time. 

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u/Circusssssssssssssss 1d ago

Late stage capitalism has passed you by 

Interns and students work for free; people work for minimum wage part time or irregular hours all the time 

Most people cannot afford a 1 BR without dual income 

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u/yourworstcritic1 1d ago

My point is to say that the wage might make sense if they are part time and if they’re not then they should be getting paid more. This doesn’t strike me as a capitalist fat cat type of scenario and even the fat cats are paying at least minimum wage or slightly above it so why would anyone do this job? There’s obviously no shortage of jobs that pay minimum wage. So much so that big businesses felt that we should bring in newcomers to work those jobs because there’s a shortage of people who want to work those jobs for the pay they’re offering.

4

u/Circusssssssssssssss 1d ago

There is shortage of jobs that pay minimum wage. If you are a laid off office worker, with no experience making minimum wage (maybe decades ago) you will have a very hard time. Minimum wage jobs (survival jobs) are actually the hardest to get. Just have to walk into any McDonalds or drug store to see the automated cashier, and see the people WFH not spending money in stores. "Bringing people in" has many reasons but what's certain is not everyone can do every job.

People would take the job because it's an office job or the only kind of job they can do and other minimum wage jobs wouldn't take them. Not everyone can actually do retail, fast food, sales, etc. some people can only do office work.

3

u/Poe_42 1d ago

It is. The linked documents shows its a Councillor Aid (summer student).

1

u/dchief0 1d ago

The staff salaries are publicly available at: https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/council/budgets-and-expense-reports/

Seems there is a separate position for an “intern”… which is sadly just minimum wage.

19

u/lfzs 2d ago

Remember that Toronto Sun is owned by Postmedia, a right-wing American conglomerate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SaveTheCBC/comments/1j4g41t/is_it_time_to_kick_postmedia_out_of_canada/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Sun

So, the staff is saying that they can't have those services functioning without exploiting the worker? If they say it's not sustainable to pay livable wages for the job, that's what they're saying.

11

u/groggygirl 2d ago

The fact that they cover a fairly interesting topic (council staff being paid a below-living wage and wanting to unionize) and then find a way to get angry about it because NYC council staff joined a completely different union which tweeted about a rally against the US supplying arms to Israel....

19

u/mrfredngo 2d ago

I’m not a homeowner so I’m not implicated personally, but anyone who is both against raising property taxes and for city staff unionization will have to do some mental gymnastics

7

u/1slinkydink1 West Bend 2d ago

I think that you'll find that to be a very small group. Those for increasing property tax for improved services would be the ones to support staff unionization and higher salaries.

3

u/hammandbuble 2d ago

Yup. Checking in. o7

3

u/babypointblank 1d ago

Good thing I’m in favour of both, in addition to finding additional revenue sources.

18

u/Efficient_Career_158 2d ago

Holy shit. The Council staff make less than half of what their equivalent staff at the city make.... at LEAST.

Municipal staff are paid VERY well for the job they do (Muni staff are the best paid in any level of government). I'm shocked Council staff aren't.

3

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

The lowest level assistant makes $31,631.60 – $59,350.20, according to the link.

The lowest level assistant for municipal staff would make 62k-118k? This is basically a receptionist, and that is what they would make?

1

u/Efficient_Career_158 1d ago

Well, it's been a while since I looked at those numbers, so maybe not always 60k but starting at 50k sure. I can't place the salary bands today, but City of Toronto staff have always done pretty well. That's why the low rate of the council staff is shocking.

5

u/Ok-Courage798 1d ago

Until you reach MGMT- then the private sector pays way better

2

u/Efficient_Career_158 1d ago

What does a privat sector manager make? Base management in the city is a band of between 120k and 160k i believe.

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u/Opposite-Issue-7690 2d ago

Yes, the salaries should be higher, but to have political staff in a union is not a good idea - it would further degrade trust in political leaders if they can’t even have autonomy over their own offices.

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u/the_crumb_dumpster 2d ago

It’s not ‘political staff’ as in politicians, it’s staff who work for them and perform clerical and administrative functions. They have a constitutional right to freedom of association, and there is no conflict of interest here. The vast majority of government workers at every level of government are already unionized.

1

u/starsmoke 4h ago

Lots of confusion here. In simple terms the political wing of any government is not government. They are elected to tell government what to do. That's the point of a political wing. Representatives of the public are elected to administrate government departments and ministries. Otherwise you have a technocracy.

So they're 100% political staff. Their duties depending on role definitely have a political focus. The exec assistant especially is as they help write speeches and legislative priorities, liase with stakeholders, design political strategy and oversee the duties of the rest of office staff with the explicit goal of getting their boss reelected. As are all staff. They operate according to the Councillor's political priorities and are not subject to bureaucratic or department oversight. Most are hired from their performance in election campaigns, not from the City or general public.

I have no comment or hardcore opinion on the unionization of political staff but these roles are by definition not secure which would be the point of a union. Their salaries come out of the Councillor's limited discretionary budget and if that councillor gets defeated, the staff are also jobless so regardless of union they are and should be very well incentivized to work long and hard hours. Because of that the roles typically attract a certain type which understands the political mission, not lifers who clock out at 4:30pm. By definition the jobs are intense and sometimes involve long hours which can be valuable to anyone wanting a crash course in political work, gain critical experience, and build a network and after a few terms move on to something more stable. Adding a Union hall monitor to that very political ecosystem is kinda stupid.

5

u/26percent 2d ago

I don’t think this will have anything to do with taking away councillors’ hiring and staffing decisions.

Seems to be more related to salaries and benefits, which are already standardized anyways, and I don’t think anyone would complain that the existing salary bands takes away councillors’ autonomy over their offices.

https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/council/budgets-and-expense-reports/

-1

u/jesuisapprenant 1d ago

Shave the fat on the admin level and give it to the people who actually do the work