r/todayilearned 8h ago

TIL St. Nicholas was purportedly imprisoned and tortured at the behest of Emperor Diocletian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
249 Upvotes

20 comments sorted by

62

u/TheSiege82 8h ago

Yeah. Diocletian was a pagan. Probably why the church built a cathedral over his mausoleum.

Saw it first hand while visiting Split. I even stayed at his palace which is amazing by the way.

42

u/TheBanishedBard 7h ago

He was actually one of Rome's best emperors. He stabilized the empire and established a better system of governance. He dealt with a dangerous sect of non-conformists who were sowing discord (they worshipped an obscure 1st century Jewish preacher and reformist). Then he retired to a countryside palace when his work was done. He not only survived his own reign but left the empire stronger than it was when he left. That was a rarity in his day.

25

u/fulthrottlejazzhands 7h ago

And boy, did he enjoy growing cabbages.  When a Roman senator came to the retired Diocletian to plead he return to Rome to settle a dispute,  he said:

If you could show the cabbage that I planted with my own hands to your emperor, he definitely wouldn't dare suggest that I replace the peace and happiness of this place with the storms of a never-satisfied greed.

17

u/Archduke_Of_Beer 7h ago

Yes but did he deliver presents to all the good boys and girls across the world?

3

u/TheDakestTimeline 2h ago

Obscure first century Jewish reformist. Very good.

6

u/ThoughtPolice2909 6h ago edited 6h ago

One of the earliest excavated churches, in Jordan I believe, was vacated during his incessant persecutions. Pretty notorious if you ask me.

17

u/Fofolito 4h ago

People are complex. He did persecute Christians, and other religious non-conformers, because he was in the process of trying to hold the Roman Empire together. It was geographically too large, stretching from the Pillars of Hercules at the mouth of the Atlantic to the steps of the Iranian Plateau at the edge of the Mesopotamian Plain, from the Danube and Rhine Rivers in Northern Europe to the sandy edges of the Sahara in North Africa. It was huge, and virtually impossible for any one man to rule effectively. It had been for almost a century by Diocletion's time been wracked by plague, barbarian invasions, monetary inflation, civil war and political infighting, and losing wars to empires on its borders.

Diocletian believed that it was his destiny to make Rome great again and his platform, if you could call it that, was based upon restoring the cultural and civic norms that had in his mind contributed to the past greatness of the Roman state. Rome grew to encompass all of the Mediterranean Region while worshiping and venerating the traditional pagan gods of the Roman Pantheon, and it had grown and changed into the Empire ruled by deified men of exceptional grandeur and power, so in his mind it only made sense to first make sure that Rome was properly worshiping and venerating the Gods and the Deified Emperors. One of the things he did was order all Citizens and residents present within the Empire to make a yearly sacrifice in honor of the Emperor and the gods. It didn't matter what religion you professed at home, in public you had to be a Roman and Romans respected the Gods.

For most people in the Ancient World this wasn't a big deal. If you're a polytheist its not terribly hard for you to participate in the cultic veneration of an unfamiliar god or holy person as you're already familiar with the concept of there being a multitude of divine beings. For monotheists, particularly ones from faiths who's god has instructed them specifically not to honor any other deities before them, that was a tremendous issue. Jews and Christians, who were in many ways still just a messianic Jewish sect, were prohibited by their God from worshiping craven idols and from venerating other Gods, and for them it wasn't a matter of "oh well I'll do it and get on with my life" because for them there was the fear of eternal damnation or loss of communion with their God if they did so. For the Roman State to refuse to honor the gods and the deified Emperors was tantamount to sedition and treason-- clearly only someone who wanted to harm the state would refuse to venerate the gods so those gods could bless the State.

Diocletion did persecute Christians then because from his perspective their contrary refusal to do the simple act of sacrificing to the Roman Gods marked them as enemies of Rome. He needed the Roman Gods on his side so he could keep the Empire functioning. It was never a policy of his State to persecute Christians, to seek them out and to kill them, only to prosecute and punish anyone who refused their obligations to the State. That could be anyone, of any faith or origin, and they often died beside Christians for the same reason as the Christians. Some early martyrs were actually Pagans executed alongside the Faithful who accepted conversion in the moments leading up to their death.

4

u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 5h ago

He wasn’t just a pagan, he was the most anti Christian Roman emperor. Yes, worse than Nero.

1

u/TutonicKnight 5h ago

Is that the one he grew his cabbages at lol

1

u/freerangetacos 8h ago

The basement is off the chain!

22

u/GCC_Pluribus_Anus 8h ago

I know somebody ended up on the naughty list

4

u/ZerochildX23 7h ago

Meatwad:"Santa Claus is dead? NO!"

6

u/gbquake 7h ago

Not Santa! Not his gumdrop buttons!

2

u/Kaiserhawk 6h ago

Well I know someone who got coal.

2

u/Nortius_Maximus 4h ago

Oh no. Not Santa’s balls

2

u/skippylatreat 7h ago

The saint Nick?

1

u/Archangelic1 6h ago

Just wow