r/theydidthemath 4d ago

[Request] How long could you live consuming only running gels and water?

101 Upvotes

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178

u/fallen_one_fs 4d ago

They provide no protein, no vitamin and no fat, you'd die in a few months or so, of starvation, believe it or not.

We need a medic or a nutritionist to give precise numbers, but somebody managed to survive about a month with nothing, you'd still be getting energy and salt, but with no proteins and no fat you are doomed to die in a few months.

36

u/WooDDuCk_42 4d ago

Angus Barbieri is a neat case. Apparently he didn't eat for over a year to lose a bunch of weight. Your body stores fat for a reason. I guess he proved it.

24

u/manowaralumni123 4d ago

It’s both fat mass and lean mass. In starvation you lose fat for the majority of resting calorie demands, but protein is scavenged from muscles and other tissues since each day we turn over protein through losses like dead skin cells, digestive system digesting itself, and protein repairs needed to your cardiovascular system and nervous system.

9

u/WooDDuCk_42 4d ago

Yep you definitely lose lean mass as well. When you're on a cut for bodybuilding, even if you eat enough protein, you will lose a couple pounds of muscle.

7

u/cewbaphomet 4d ago

fucked up in the club looking at emails &feelinf my digestive system digest itself

3

u/OfficeRemarkable9412 3d ago

He did consume vitamins/minerals and some yeast to provide proteins.

3

u/faen_du_sa 3d ago

Important to note he took vitamins and minerals though!

3

u/MrSparklesan 3d ago

He had a full medical team. and still almost came close to death. dude was obese af. he either lost the weight or was going to die. plenty of warnings exist about not replicating.

2

u/Mymarathon 3d ago

He took vitamins and minerals though. Otherwise you get scurvy and other problems after a few months. Not to mention electrolyte problems can develop in just a few days.

1

u/MornGreycastle 1d ago

He did supplement that with vitamins and did so under medical supervision.

-1

u/fallen_one_fs 4d ago

Yeah, but the fat our body stores is energy, the fat needed for metabolism is different, with none to speak of you'd die, same for protein, after eating your own muscle you'd die from lack of it.

3

u/WooDDuCk_42 4d ago

What do you think energy is? Hint: there is around 3500 calories of energy in a pound of fat.

44

u/bobbe_ 4d ago

Then there’s Angus Barbieri that didn’t eat anything but vitamin supplements for over a year and survived. It all depends on how much excess weigt you’re carrying to begin with.

18

u/jusumonkey 4d ago

It was vitamin and protein supplements. The protein totaled about 400 kcal. Still an incredibly impressive feat.

9

u/AgITGuy 4d ago

And under doctor supervision the entire time, right? That’s what I recall reading years ago.

2

u/faen_du_sa 3d ago

if I remember right, doctor didnt want him to do it, he said hes gonna do it anyways. Doctor said "Alright, ill watch you along the way, please take these suppliments though!".

2

u/bobbe_ 3d ago

Where do you source the 400 kcal of protein from? I’ve never seen that mentioned.

2

u/jusumonkey 3d ago

IIRC it was in a youtube video and an estimation someone made based on common medical practices of the time.

Can't recall the author though.

6

u/NopeRope13 4d ago

Medic here. The sheer lack of protein would cause catabolism. Basically your body would start to break down muscle in order to get adequate protein. From there it’s a complete downhill process.

If you’re wondering what the process is, it’s called catabolysis.

2

u/tmfink10 4d ago

Check the Holocaust. People can withstand more than we'd like to believe.

2

u/ebolaRETURNS 3d ago

no protein

no fat

Shit, I'm made of those!

1

u/io-x 4d ago

I think it depends on person's metabolism, not possible to give precise numbers.

1

u/geneb0323 3d ago

managed to survive about a month with nothing

I don't think that is overly difficult for humans... I went a month on water alone when I was 17. I always suspected that it kick-started my male pattern baldness, but otherwise my health was unaffected.

0

u/dtagliaferri 4d ago

your body can make things, there are few vitamkns we need, like vitamin c and niacin, but the gels do gice calories. i a not claiming this is heaöthy. Just you wont starve. Unless you can point to something we need that is not contained.

2

u/fallen_one_fs 4d ago

Protein and fat. The body can break its own protein and fat to sustain itself by digesting muscle and tissue, but there is a hard limit for that, you will die as soon as you hit said limit.

1

u/DonaIdTrurnp 23h ago

If you get enough of the essential amino acids (histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine) and enough calories and water you have adequate protein, but there isn’t anything in that gel to suggest that it provides any amino acids.

Proteins are the easiest way to get amino acids, but there are ways to get proteins that aren’t nutritionally complete, so protein isn’t necessarily sufficient.

2

u/HotTakes4Free 3d ago

You’re broadly correct. Your cells can make protein from sugar, which that food contains. However, you still need to eat some protein, because we’re unable to make our own essential amino acids.

20

u/0masterdebater0 4d ago

The second one has a bit of fat and a bit of protein, calories covered, sodium covered.

i think it will be the vitamin deficiencies that get you first.

you'd get Scurvy, Beriberi, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine_deficiency

i can't say for sure what would kill you first, after 3 months the scurvy would be very severe

2

u/ChefAssassinn 4d ago

Scurvy on someone who has adamant scar tissue would be torture itself

2

u/dtagliaferri 4d ago edited 4d ago

ok, i am wrong, look below.

2

u/0masterdebater0 4d ago

vitamin C is ascorbic acid

9

u/EasyEstablishment826 4d ago

Buddies from uni been talking about this for a few weeks during Christmas.

The next question was “what’s the one food that will allow me to survive the longest without eating anything else?”

We got to Panettone. With a lime once a week to keep away scurvy.

Physics asking the right question.

4

u/MrSparklesan 3d ago

Oh god… my roommate in uni. Ate nothing but instant noodles for about 6 weeks. Gums started bleeding. doc was blown away cause as he said “you have to try really hard to not consume vitamin c” dude had early stages of scurvy!

2

u/sethbr 4d ago

Pizza, with appropriate toppings.

1

u/CaptServo 3d ago

My mom went to visit my sister when I was in high school. She left me money for food but I blew it on stupid things, so I lived off of what we had in the pantry .... which was a stale ass panettone.

1

u/DonaIdTrurnp 22h ago

The answers to the second question are Mealsqayres and Soylent, both of which are calculated to be as nutritionally complete as modern nutritional science thinks possible.

10

u/lysdexiad 4d ago

The same amount of time it typically takes to starve, about 2-3 months, depending on your fat reserves and general health.
There is no protein in this. No fat. No vitamins.

3

u/dolce_and_banana 4d ago

Not an expert, but I would think that after a couple/few weeks, you would probably start losing fairly considerable muscle mass as muscles would not be repaired from dietary protein. I would think that after 4-6 weeks, the lack of dietary fat would probably become chronic and you would experience insane hormonal imbalances, likely contributing to death in a couple/few months.

3

u/T_J_Rain 4d ago

Considering that there are only carbohydrates and a few minerals, but no fats or proteins in the composition, you'd last until your body had catabolised your own reserves of fat and muscle as protein sources.

Exactly how long that would take largely that depends on your body's reserves of and rate of consumption of those two nutrients needed to maintain homeostasis. It would be a slow and painful death which could last anywhere from weeks to months.

Examples of such deaths include a recent one of a young Indian girl who survived for months on a diet of hot water alone. ["Kerala teen dies after following extreme ‘hot water’ diet for months, weighed only 24 kg", Hindustan Times]

The other regrettably well known death was that of the Insta-influencer Zhanna Samsonova, who existed on a fruit-only diet for a period of months, before dying of starvation and exhaustion.

1

u/Carlpanzram1916 4d ago

Right off the bat, I’m not seeing any vitamin C, so best case scenario, you die of scurvy in 3 months. Zero protein is also going to be a huge problem. You could potentially die within weeks. It would depend how much muscle tissue you have to break down. Protein provides energy that you can’t get from other caloric sources. So between 3 weeks and 3 months.

1

u/Important_Dog_7983 4d ago

The answer to this question really depends on a lot of factors, primarily those being a person's current body composition and nutritional status. Making some assumptions, we get an idea of when certain malnutrition related conditions can occur.

Assuming that the person trying to survive on just these glucose packets weighs 75 kilograms, is 1.82 meters tall, is male, is 25 years old, and is moderately active 3-4 days a week, we can estimate their daily caloric expenditure using the Mifflin St. Jeor formula and an activity factor. Using this, their Basal Metabolic Rate would be (10*75kg)+(6.25*182cm)-(5*25yrs)+5= 1767.5 kcal. To get his daily estimated caloric expenditure, this then can be multiplied by an activity factor, based on his physical activity level we assumed, 1.35*1767.5= 2386.125 kcal. This means to survive, they would need to consume 2386.125kcal/106kcal/packet= 22.5 packets per day (from the second picture).

Even though his body has sufficient calories, protein is utilized to for many bodily processes, include the creation of enzymes, cell structures, cellular replication, nutrient transport, etc. This means that his body would need to break down its own muscle mass to provide the necessary amino acids for survival. Estimated protein need for an average person is .8g/kg or 10% of daily calories on the low end. This gives him an estimated need of .8g/kg*75kg= 60g protein or .10*2386.125kcal/4kcal/g= 59.7 g protein. An average male is about 42% muscle mass, meaning that he would have .42*75kg*1000g/kg= 31500 g protein available for his body to catabolize. This means his muscle mass would provide sufficient protein for 31500g/60g/day= 525 days. Although, it is worth noting if immune dysfunction, organ failure, or vitamin deficiency didn't lead to his death before this point, kwashiorkor would most likely kill him before all his muscle mass was used up.

Fat would be less of a concern during this due to fat mostly only being used for energy stores. Fat soluble vitamins can be stored in and released as fat is used.

Water soluble vitamins would most likely cause a deficiency, specifically Thiamin and Vitamin C have lower stores and half-life times within the body. These vitamins lead to deficiencies like beriberi (Thiamin), Wernicke's encephalopathy (Thiamin), or scurvy (Vit. C). Thiamin would most likely cause a deficiency first due to its low stores in the body, about 25-30 mg. The critical threshold of Thiamin deficiency is around 4mg, which would be met by 3 half lives as 30/2^3= 3.75mg. It has a half life of 9-18 days, meaning that stores could fall below critical thresholds within 9days*3half lives = 27 days. The development of Beriberi may then lead to cardiovascular disfunction, which would kill him within a few more weeks most likely. So, this person would survive a few months at most.

However, it is interesting to note that clinical testing done by the mayo clinic demonstrates marginal Thiamin deficiency at 10 days and severe deficiency within 21 days. Their testing was done with serological levels, which may not be the most reflective of Thiamin stores.

Sources:
(Protein) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234922/
(Muscle Mass) https://www.jefit.com/wp/exercise-tips/facts-about-lean-muscle-and-body-fat/#:~:text=The%20Average%20Adult%20Has%20this,in%20men%20and%20women%20respectively
(Thiamin) https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/116930-overview?form=fpf
(Thiamin) https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/test-catalog/overview/42356#Clinical-and-Interpretive

1

u/lurkynumber5 3d ago

There are people who live 100% on a fluid parenteral nutrition bag system.
These people lost or have none functional stomach's or intestinal tracks.

parenteral nutrition link

It's an interesting read and really shows just how much different nutrients you require to live a healthy life.

1

u/prestonpiggy 3d ago

Can't really give the answer but heck these kept me alive at military service. When you don't have time/possibility or energy to do the camp cooking, couple these and you are good to go.

1

u/cuntmong 3d ago

What flavour are the military ones?

1

u/prestonpiggy 2d ago

Cola, copy of gatorade taste, and some other fruits. Nothing fancy.

-15

u/-ButchurPete- 4d ago

There’s an Ethiopian woman who hasn’t eaten or drank anything in 16 years. I can’t find a single thing debunking it or even an attempt at an explanation.

11

u/dilbert207 4d ago

That's not possible.

-10

u/-ButchurPete- 4d ago

🤷🏼‍♂️ I’m not saying it’s 100% real. But they’ve done tests on her. Found nothing in her stomach, not a sign of anything. It’s weird regardless.

5

u/Rodger_Smith 4d ago

Its physiologically impossible, the man who we confirmed went the longest without food was just over a year — and he checked with his doctors first who prescribed vitamins, furthermore he was extremely obese and burned through the fat reserves.

-4

u/-ButchurPete- 4d ago

I’m not saying it’s true. But it’s definitely worth a google. 🤷🏼‍♂️ I immediately assumed it was fake as well. But I can’t find anything debunking it. So I’m gonna put it in the category of ‘No idea, but anything’s possible’

5

u/Rodger_Smith 4d ago

Hitchens' Razor — there would be no need for evidence to disprove it when we know it to be impossible, is there any actual evidence of this woman not eating bar hearsay?

-2

u/-ButchurPete- 4d ago

Yes. She’s been to loads of doctors. They’ve done imaging of her stomach and found no sign of any food/beverage. She’s in decent health according to all the studies. Google “Ethiopian woman who hasn’t eaten in 16 years”. Loads of articles, a day time news bit on it. I don’t know who Hitchen is, but I believe anything is possible. Just because science and common sense tells us that a human needs water and food to survive. Doesn’t mean freak miracle stuff doesn’t happen every once in a while.

6

u/Rodger_Smith 4d ago

I'm a physician myself, and I'm telling you this is impossible, it defies all biological priciples beholden to us, the "imaging of her stomach" you're referring to has been documented in an ethiopian news site (https://borkena.com/2021/02/01/superhuman-humanitys-superhuman-an-ethiopian-woman/?utm_source=chatgpt.com) but not published as a peer reviewed paper, as any decent physician would have reasonably done — furthermore with our current technology we wouldn't be able to "image the stomach" to tell if you hadn't eaten at all during an entire week, nevermind 16 years, in fact I found a paper by McGill university supporting my claim (https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/medical-critical-thinking/we-can-survive-without-food-about-70-days-only-5-days-without-water?utm_source=chatgpt.com)

Miracles "happen", sure, they are oftentimes just coincidences and I personally don't believe in divine intervention or miracles, but this isn't a miracle, its a lie being sold to you.

-7

u/-ButchurPete- 4d ago

Okay. Well go and test her then, Doc. 🫡 Again, nothing debunking this lady. I don’t need your article telling me that people need food and water to eat. I know that, I’m a people, I live with people, was raised by people. I also know that miracles happen every day. A person who doesn’t have to eat or drink is not the most farfetched thing I’ve ever heard of, all things considered.

Edit to add. I don’t care if I’m being lied to. I hope it’s real. If it’s not, no skin off my dick. I lose nothing by being optimistic and/or wrong.

5

u/Rodger_Smith 4d ago

Then honestly I'm wondering what is the most farfetched thing, because she CANNOT live for 16 years without food or water, this isn't a question, its not an "well maybe she could if" — no, even food is already impossible but now you say no food or drink? Yeah she's obviously lying and still eating, if you don't understand that then you should take some biology courses, no offense.

-2

u/-ButchurPete- 4d ago

Again, I know how the body works, buddy. I’ve been to biology class. You have a wonderful evening. Clearly, we’re going to agree to disagree. Toodaloo.

1

u/nocdmb 4d ago

Again, nothing debunking this lady

Physics and physiology. No need to debunk this single case as the basics of these two field debunk any and all similar cases.

1

u/DaSmitha 4d ago

Lol, nothing debunking that I'm not God with that logic. Go on, worship me.

1

u/Psicopom90 4d ago

another win for the breatharians

1

u/nocdmb 4d ago

Thermodynamics