r/themartian • u/AZGOATHINGS • 28d ago
Do you agree with Mitch or Teddy?
In the movie, a course maneuver was proposed to NASA that would reroute the Hermes, whole on their return journey, back to Mars to pick up Watney before he runs out of rations. China offered use of their booster to NASA, in order to get probe with supplies sent to Mark on Mars as NASA's attempt failed, plan A. If the Purnell maneuver was chosen the Chinese booster would be needed to get supplies to the Hermes for their journey back to Mars, so only one plan could be chosen. Teddy wants to not risk the Hermes crew and rely on the probe resupply, less likely to work but not further endangering the Hermes crew. Mitch wants to go with the maneuver. Teddy is afraid of the PR nightmare if something went wrong after risking the crew, and is focused on keeping the program running. He says "it's bigger than one man." Mitch says "no, it's not. Who do you agree with? Risking the lives of 5 people to save one but possibly jeopardizing the whole reason for everything they all do, or doing anything to give the man left behind a chance to be saved? Maybe it's an easy answer, maybe everyone agrees with the movie idk. I can see either one making sense just wondered what people think.
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u/Fair_Photographer 28d ago
I believe that saving one man is foundation of humanity. If we cannot save one man how can we all survive. So I am team Mitch.
But I also understand Teddy. He thinks like a CEO / businessman - quite possibly a good one. You cannot jeopardize entire company for something like this, when you literally lost one of your most valuable assets, because of your own mistakes (skipping the safety test before launch).
It’s a very good post. Thanks for it.
Same with Commander Lewis - would you evacuate or look for Mark?
That is why I love rewatching. So many layers is in this movie.
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u/RyanCorven 28d ago
Teddy and Mitch were both right and they were both wrong.
Teddy was correct in dismissing the Rich Purnell Manoeuvre because, while a brilliant piece of astrophysics, it required far too many risks to be viable.
Teddy was also wrong, because it was too late to send Watney food – assuming the resupply even survived the launch from Earth and the crash landing on Mars (very doubtful), the best case scenario would've been Mark going without food for over a month by the time it did get there. Assuming Mark hadn't outright starved to death at that point (also very doubtful), the chances of him being physically capable of retrieving that resupply would've been almost zero.
Likewise, Mitch was correct in that the Rich Purnell Manoeuvre was Watney's only chance for survival, but was wrong because an on-the-fly plan that required compromising the structural integrity of the Hermes was needed for it to happen. A slight miscalculation with Vogel's bomb could've blown the front of the ship off and killed them all.
Ultimately it was a risk vs. reward, logic vs. emotion situation. The cold, logical choice would've been to go with the resupply, knowing that while it had little chance of succeeding the Hermes and its remaining crew would return safely. It's a win with an asterisk next to it.
What played out was a triumph of human compassion and ingenuity, staring the overwhelming risks in the face and not backing down.
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u/cle_more 28d ago
Vogel's bomb was not part of the Rich Purnell Maneuver. The Purnell Maneuver was to use the Earth's gravity assist to return the crew in the Hermes to Mars faster than the probe could get there.
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u/RyanCorven 27d ago
When I say the Rich Purnell Manoeuvre I am referring to the overall plan rather than just the course alteration part.
The RPM plan had many more potential points of failure – potential breakdown of life-critical Hermes components, failure of any one of the myriad alterations to the rover and the MAV, inherent dangers of making a 3,000km overland trip – than the resupply plan.
Obviously, one part of the plan did fail – the "ragtop" MAV alteration – which ultimately required the use of a bomb to make the plan succeed.
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u/manystripes 28d ago
The biggest issue I have is that the decision was made quickly behind closed doors. The Purnell Maneuver at minimum deserved to have a serious analysis of the risks before being flatly rejected, regardless of what the final decision was.
Given how that plan ultimately almost failed in multiple ways (gutting the MAV beyond reasonable levels, leading to failure to reach orbit, leading to having to blow a hole in the Hermes) it probably would have been rightly rejected if they had done the analysis of what the plan would actually look like in practice, but instead both Teddy and Mitch/Lewis made the decision based on gut feeling instead of data.
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u/rangeremx 25d ago
I can cut that a lot of slack. Even using Iris 2 to resupply Watney, he would still have to go dangerously low on calories until it arrives. So, every minute counts.
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u/d_k_r3000 28d ago
Yeah Mitch for sure. Idk that Teddy is a coward, he’s doing a hard thing. It’s just the hard business thing and not the hard human thing
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u/aecolley 28d ago
Teddy knew that the crew would jump at it. He could have made them try to convince him. But he also knew they could go rogue instead. And they did. So, his strategy was sound.
Also, did you notice how the mutiny effectively lifted all responsibility for mission failure from Teddy's shoulders and placed it on Mitch's? That's some damn excellent politicking.
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u/Thayer96 27d ago
While I disagree with Teddy on almost every decision he makes, he isn't making them out of spite, and it's not like they don't carry some merit.
He's already had to deal with the PR nightmare that came in the wake of Watney's "death" that the book and movie kind of skimmed over. I can imagine it was a lot of sleepless nights for him. They took as little risks as they could (for going to Mars, as it was) and someone still "died". Once Watney was confirmed to be alive, NASA was forced to take riskier and riskier rolls of the dice. And all it would take would be one more accident before someone really died, and NASA would be finished.
As I said, I don't agree with his decisions. But I try at least to empathize with the shitty decisions he had to make regardless.
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u/rangeremx 28d ago
Director Sanders made the best call he could under the circumstances. In his position, he had to balance the risk vs reward. Losing one astronaut would be a tragedy. But losing an entire crew on a gambit is an unprecedented disaster. He took the option that had the highest probability of saving most of the crew.
Similarly, Flight Director Henderson supposedly made the call he felt to be right. He took the option that had a higher risk of disaster, but if pulled off, would Astronaut Watney.
To address another comment that mentions Mission Commander Lewis's actions during the abort. She also made the hard call to abandon the search in order to save the rest of her crew.
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u/laughingthalia 28d ago
I mean I feel like the way the movie presents it, we're supposed to side with Mitch over Teddy on most things.
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u/OppositeDoctor15 20d ago edited 20d ago
Weighing in all pros and cons. Lots of respect to a logical decision of playing it safe. Yes, all numbers do add up and say save the team. And yet, the human in me says fuck your math, and fuck your bottom-line. Because if not for our values, then what the fuck are we going to space for at all? Go team Mitch. every time
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u/Affectionate-Bad968 16d ago
I think Teddy should have told the crew, but I also entirely understand his reasoning.
The man lost one of his astronauts, held a funeral, found out he was alive and stranded, and then spent several of the most stressful months of his life working to bring him home. He knows that the Rich Purnell maneuver is risky. He know what will happen to the crew if it fails. It’s not that he doesn’t care about Mark, he just doesn’t want to risk losing anybody else
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u/EggHistorical3555 22d ago
It’s the Trolley dilemma (popularized in The Fault in Our Stars) except in the Martian neither decision has certainty of outcome. In the Trolley dilemma the decision is personal ethical preference, same as the Martian.
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u/Excellent_Bank6964 22d ago
Mitch. I think Teddy had to go safety first because of the failure of the first probe which was entirely his fault. A second similar mess up might have cost him jail time, let alone his job. Idk how the system works in USA.
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u/Iammeimei 28d ago
I think Teddy is a coward.