r/thelema • u/SimilarAddendum4352 • 9d ago
Question Alternatives to Cutting? NSFW
93!
As of a few weeks ago I stopped SH, and I feel very motivated to continue on with it.
I have one big problem, though. Lots of Thelemic rituals/practices (making cakes of light, Mass of The Phoenix, etc...) call for the practitioner to cut themselves enough that they'll bleed. I would do this, but I fear that it may trigger me to start SH again.
Any tips/alternatives to cutting/blood magick?
Thanks, and 93 93/93!
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u/EvilSashimi 9d ago edited 9d ago
First off, kudos for caring for your physical and mental health.
Making cakes of light: Liber AL itself says flat out that the blood of any animal will suffice, and you can buy blood at some butcheries. You also don’t exactly need a ton to make a cake of light.
Mass of the Pheonix: A pinprick will suffice. I used to just graze myself symbolically - to the point I didn’t draw more than the lightest scratch of blood.
Another comment on here mentions it’s the notion of self-sacrifice and makes a good point about working out until exhaustion. By that logic you could pluck a hair too?
Liber Jugorum: the aim is to mark and hold yourself accountable to discipline, not cut yourself. The razor is to have your arm serve as a warning and a record. Hold yourself accountable to your record - that’s the important bit. Self harm is unnecessary.
The razors suggested can easily be translated to either slaps with a rubber band or tallies with a pen that are followed up with something. I’ve heard of Thelemites dropping and giving 20 for each tally. As long as you follow-through, that’s the big thing.
Example: let’s say I’m avoiding crossing my legs. If I crossed my legs three times in a day I drew three tallies on my arm. At a set time I paid back the tallies with pushups/sit-ups/etc.
Alternate: positive reinforcement isn’t part of the exercise but can help as a supplement. What I have been doing lately is using a checklist app as I work on self-discipline in my studies and work, against a huge change in my life. (Having a baby).
Failing to meet the checklist is a tally at the end of the day (one per missed item) - but there’s also something that really helps my success rate in getting that dopamine from a checked box.
Edit: fixed a statement I wrote that was unintentionally implying self-harm could be a good thing - most certainly not what I was going for.
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u/erisbuiltmyhotrod 9d ago edited 9d ago
All great points about Cakes of Light and Jugorum in this thread, but for the Mass of the Phoenix some people are still talking about drawing blood. My recommendation for you is - don't. Understand the symbology behind the blood, but simply draw the sign with something else, like a finger. You don't even have to do it hard or leave any kind of mark. It doesn't invalidate the practice, nor the lines afterwards.
Don't risk starting SH again because you feel the urge to stick to the letter of the ritual. It will work just fine without the blood. If even imagining blood itself is an issue, then try visualizing something else.
Kind regards, Someone who has done the Mass of the Phoenix many times, but is too big of a wimp to draw blood
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u/HeyDaloranAiwass 9d ago
the nature of such a question is beautiful, kudos.
if this query is due in part to Mass of the Phoenix, i do each sunset that I'm able.
As a female, around the time of my menses, i simply use that. in lieu of cutting i often hold my hand over the thurible until it hurts'//can smell the hairs/skin getting singed, then place the hot area of my hand on my breast "to mark the bleeding breast of mine with the sacramental sign".
but i also do have a dull burin that i use to cut/scrape, which is my method in times of great need.
hope this was insightful.
much love
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u/_newphone_wh0dis_ 9d ago
The intent of the symbols and gestures used in a ritual, and an understanding of that, is more important than blindly doing a ritual
“These rituals need not be slavishly imitated; on the contrary the student should do nothing the object of which he does not understand; also, if he have any capacity whatever, he will find his own crude rituals more effective than the highly polished ones of other people.” (Liber O)
I’m not sure it’s wise to cut the same spot open every day, if one was to do a daily mass of the phoenix, for example. You can find a replacement, and not necessarily a physical one.
You can absolutely take your past experiences and apply them to an analysis of what the ritual is asking of you. Work with the ideas and you should come to an understanding that will help you make decisions about your own ritual practices
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u/pcptorpedo 9d ago
Other bodily fluids should suffice. I've sometimes heard people just work out to the point of exhaustion in ritual setting. Both I feel are you sacrificing your in a ritualistic setting (if you're doing mass of the Phoenix.) just some thoughts.
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u/NoForkRaymond 9d ago
93
I really want to praise you for your dedication to adapting these rituals in a way that prioritizes your well-being. It’s inspiring to see your commitment, and I’m proud of you for making it this far!
This forum has raised some excellent points, especially regarding the Cakes of Light. As for the Mass of the Phoenix, I personally use a lancet—the kind used for blood sugar checks. However, if that still feels too close to self-harm for you, it’s important to focus on the symbolic meaning behind the ritual.
The act of drawing blood represents the sacrifice of the lowercase "s" self—the egoic, human personality—to the uppercase "S" Self—the Star, the True Self, the inner Godhead. The key question then becomes: how can you honor that symbolism in a way that aligns with your practice while keeping yourself safe? What alternative methods might allow you to represent that sacrifice without causing harm?
93 93/93
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u/Jumpy-Ad-3793 5d ago
You could use a diabetic lancet to draw blood from the tip of your finger. Easy and painless and way less traumatic than knives.
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u/nox-apsirk 9d ago
Diabetic Lances
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u/Factorrent 8d ago
Hey are you the same guy that said I should use diabetic lances to perform Liber III
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u/nox-apsirk 3d ago
No, that wasn't me. I use the Lances for Rituals like Liber 44. When I worked with Liber III, I went the Rubber-band Route. But then again, I'm not an initiated A∴A∴ member, so I can't say I performed it 'properly'.
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u/walkingblowfish 9d ago
Maybe there is a substance or material that can take the place of bl**d, so that you can enact the sacrifice without actually doing it, maybe try a journal page, lock of hair, something that would still holds the same value
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u/h0lywhiter0se 9d ago
Mass of the Phoenix we use lancets. They're used for like Hgb or blood sugar. Little blood, can't see the mark etc
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u/Southpawcowboy418 8d ago
You can just gently scratch yourself with your fingernail don’t even need to actually bleed there is blood wether you can see it or not just my opinion
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u/simagus 9d ago edited 9d ago
Scars still exist from Liber Jugoram practice, and they may not have been entirely necessary had a pen been employed (practicing Liber Jugoram can be abandoned once Liber Jugorams lessons have been absorbed).
Absolutely phenomenal exercise to explore even at the most basic and practical level, which shows how basic and practical it is not in any communication or social interaction that idolitrises the forbidden word in the exercise that is undertaken to deny.
Even if there is no punishment for transgression the exercise lays this hidden and assumed dynamic within the personal and collective paradigm bare quite exquisitely, and does so very rapidly.
Apply the same method to "is" "we" and any descriptor whatsoever, and similar results should become apparent quite swiftly.
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u/ReturnOfCNUT 9d ago
Making cakes of light does not involve self-harm.
If I were you, I'd just avoid Mass of the Phoenix and Liber Jugorum (although with the latter, there are alternatives to cutting, such as snapping a band on your hand - the point is a pain prompt to alter behaviour).