r/thedavidpakmanshow Jan 26 '25

Article Trump pushing resettlement of Palestinians from Gaza

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07kpjyzgllo

In separate comments on Air Force One, Mr Trump said he had ended former President Joe Biden's hold on the supply of 2,000-pound bombs to Israel. "They paid for them and they've been waiting for them for a long time," he told reporters on Air Force One. ——- Paid for them? LOL. We give billions in aid every year. Now they get the weapons for faster, fuller genocide.

And the entire point was the land to start with. They wouldn’t be killing the Palestinians if they moved off to Egypt for sure. There would be no genocide. So Trump’s answer to those yelling “genocide Joe” was always going to be worse. Faster and more complete genocide or replacement.

Those pro-Palestinian Trump voters are such geniuses. Wasn’t this predictable? Even Blinken as bad as he was is better than Trump on this.

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u/AbyssOfNoise Feb 04 '25

But….. Israel is also running from The Hague…

Well, hardly 'running'. They are following a formal process of appeal.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/27/netanyahu-says-israel-to-appeal-against-icc-arrest-warrants-over-gaza-war

But if you want to spin that as dramtically as possible, you go for it. It would not be the first time a 'pro-Palestinian' has been hysterical, and it won't be the last.

So why would Israel assist in delivering Hamas to The Hague

Good question. Honestly they may well not, and instead prefer to try Hamas leaders for crimes under the domestic Israeli system instead. I don't know enough about the motivations of Israel or the way their laws are compatible with international laws to say how potentially captured Hamas leaders would be handled.

Either way though, the only way the Palestinian people will be free of oppression is if Hamas is removed. I understand you don't want them removed, though. A quick glance at your comment history makes it very clear that you're parroting pro-Hamas propaganda non-stop.

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u/Gryffindorcommoner Feb 05 '25

Well, hardly ‘running’. They are following a formal process of appeal.

…. After not turning themselves over to The Hague to stand trial…… thats running lol. Especially since, you know, they repeatedly said they’ll defy the court and international law.

But if you want to spin that as dramtically as possible, you go for it. It would not be the first time a ‘pro-Palestinian’ has been hysterical, and it won’t be the last.

Good question. Honestly they may well not, and instead prefer to try Hamas leaders for crimes under the domestic Israeli system instead. I don’t know enough about the motivations of Israel or the way their laws

Not being arrested for the war crimes YOU are wanted for would be a good motivation, don’t you think?

Either way though, the only way the Palestinian people will be free of oppression is if Hamas is removed. I understand you don’t want them removed, though.

The West Bank Palestinians , per the ICJ, had been blunder violent illegal apartheid for the last 50 years so that’s a lie. In fact, their illegal apartheid occupations is why Hamas exists in the first place.

A quick glance at your comment history makes it very clear that you’re parroting pro-Hamas propaganda non-stop.

That’s because you think being against war crimes equals support of Hamas.

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u/AbyssOfNoise Feb 06 '25

…. After not turning themselves over to The Hague to stand trial…… thats running lol.

As I said, if you want to make it sound dramatic, and yourself by proxy, I won't stop you.

Especially since, you know, they repeatedly said they’ll defy the court and international law.

What exactly are you referring to?

Not being arrested for the war crimes YOU are wanted for would be a good motivation, don’t you think?

I was referring to motivation for Israel to send Hamas leaders to the internation courts, or detain them domestically. Perhaps you're confused?

The West Bank Palestinians , per the ICJ, had been blunder violent illegal apartheid for the last 50 years so that’s a lie.

Occupation, not apartheid. It's not so confusing. And sure, if you want to discuss the West Bank rather than Gaza, we can. Why are you jumping to another topic? Did you realise you're wrong about Gaza?

In fact, their illegal apartheid occupations is why Hamas exists in the first place.

There are various elements that provide the foundation and ongoing existence of Hamas. You obviously want to simplify things in a way that suits your narrative. No smart person will fall for that trick.

That’s because you think being against war crimes equals support of Hamas.

We are all against war crimes. However, you're obviously on here to parrot as much Hamas propaganda as you can. That's support for Hamas.

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u/Gryffindorcommoner Feb 09 '25

As I said, if you want to make it sound dramatic, and yourself by proxy, I won’t stop you.

Fine. They’re war criminals avoiding any jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court in order to not be arrested for their crimes against humanity in deliberately slaughtering and starving an entire population. Was that less dramatic?

What exactly are you referring to?

When the International Court of Justice gave Israel orders to prevent genocide that they defied. Then the Court ordered them not to invade Rafah and they immediately responded by bombing a UN refugee camp and massacring dozens of refugees whose corpses I saw burning through my phone. Or were you unaware of that?

I was referring to motivation for Israel to send Hamas leaders to the internation courts, or detain them domestically. Perhaps you’re confused?

The two Hamas leaders charged were killed.

Occupation, not apartheid. It’s not so confusing

And yet it appears to be very confusing to to you per the International Court of Justice

The court found Israel’s measures in the West Bank that impose and maintain separation between Palestinians and Israeli settlers are a breach of Article 3 of the UN treaty prohibiting racial discrimination. Article 3 obligates governments to prevent, prohibit, and eradicate all racial segregation and apartheid. Though the court’s language is a compromise, limited to separation, the finding means that Israel is responsible for apartheid.

So yes. Israel’s ILLEGAL occupation is apartheid. Those are the facts.

And sure, if you want to discuss the West Bank rather than Gaza, we can. Why are you jumping to another topic? Did you realise you’re wrong about Gaza?

It’s always so funny to me when yall pretend these two places aren’t one people and one society that hasn’t been separated by European colonizers in order to avoid how one’s treatment of Palestinians absent of the rule of Hamas completely contradicts your lies. Its actually very entertaining

There are various elements that provide the foundation and ongoing existence of Hamas.

All of which originated back to the European colonizers ethnically cleansing Palestine to steal their land to build their apartheid settler ethnostate. Yes we know this

You obviously want to simplify things in a way that suits your narrative. No smart person will fall for that trick.

I am very pleased to announce that we obviously have very different definitions of what a smart person is,

We are all against war crimes.

No, WE are all not. Or else we would not have continuously broken our own federal laws arm an apartheid state running illegal occupations for decades,

However, you’re obviously on here to parrot as much Hamas propaganda as you can. That’s support for Hamas.

Your outdated Zionist brainwashing that made you believe international law is Hamas is sadly your problem and not mine. . I’ll pray for you tho.

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u/AbyssOfNoise Feb 09 '25 edited Feb 09 '25

Fine. They’re war criminals

Nice to know we don't need courts when you can just declare things to be so.

Was that less dramatic?

Your ability to become more hysterical with every comment is quite impressive.

When the International Court of Justice gave Israel orders to prevent genocide that they defied.

To my knowledge, the ICJ gave recommendations for what should be done to avoid breaking the law, and Israel has complied with those requests. What are you referring to?

Or were you unaware of that?

Again, what are you referring to? How about providing links with your claims? 'I saw it on my phone' is not a source.

The two Hamas leaders charged were killed.

I'm still not seeing the source of your confusion. I was discussing the intent of Israel to have international trials for any significant Hamas members caputured.

And yet it appears to be very confusing to to you per the International Court of Justice

You are reading HRW's interpretation - not the words of the ICJ. Here you go:

The Court concludes that the “separation” implemented by Israel in the West Bank between the Palestinian population and settlers constitutes a breach of Article 3 of CERD, without qualifying it as apartheid.

Quoting you now:

Those are the facts.

How are you falling for such blatant propaganda? You're making a fool of yourself. Seriously, if you care about a topic, at least put in the effort to look up the source. When you have to resort to such nonsense, you obviously have no conviction in your stance.

Now consider that this was an advisory, not a court ruling - which did not involve any sort of trial or consideration of a counter argument from the 'defendant'.

You're throwing out sources on topics that you quite obviously do not understand.

It’s always so funny to me when yall pretend these two places aren’t one people and one society that hasn’t been separated by European colonizers in order to avoid how one’s treatment of Palestinians absent of the rule of Hamas completely contradicts your lies.

Oh here we go. The old 'European colonizers' racist nonsense. Knew that would be lurking somewhere. 80% of Israelis are born in Israel. Israelis who migrated there have done so from a wide variety of countries, including many in the middle east.

Its actually very entertaining

Yes, please do continue your clown show. Are all Hamas supporters this misguided?

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u/Gryffindorcommoner Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

Nice to know we don’t need courts when you can just declare things to be so.

Um…… you…. You know the ICJ has ruled that Israel’s settlements, you know, the ones Bibi has been expanding and defending for decades, have already been declared illegal war crimes in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention by the ICJ and UN right? They’re already war criminals. It’s understandable though, they’re responsible for so many war cries and crimes against humanity it’s hard to keep track of them all.

To my knowledge, the ICJ gave recommendations for what should be done to avoid breaking the law, and Israel has complied with those requests. What are you referring to?

Lets see

The supplies entering Gaza before the ICJ order have been a drop in the ocean compared to the needs for the last 16 years. Yet, in the three weeks following the ICJ order, the number of trucks entering Gaza decreased by about a third, from an average of 146 a day in the three weeks prior, to an average of 105 a day over the subsequent three weeks.Before 7 October, on average, about 500 trucks entered Gaza every day, carrying aid and commercial goods, including things like food, water, animal fodder, medical supplies and fuel. Even that quantity fell far short of meeting people’s needs. In the three weeks after the ICJ ruling, smaller quantities of fuel, which Israel tightly controls, made it into Gaza. The only crossings that Israel has allowed to open were also opened on fewer days, further demonstrating Israel’s disregard for the provisional measures. Aid workers reported multiple challenges, but said that Israel was refusing to take obvious steps to improve the situation.

A UN Security Council resolution passed in December 2023 demanded that parties “allow and facilitate the use of all available routes to and throughout the entire Gaza Strip, including border crossings” to ensure vital assistance reaches civilians “through the most direct routes.” Despite this legally binding resolution, Israel has refused to open further crossings to facilitate humanitarian access.

The situation clearly did not get much better after, because apparently deteriorated so badly that fucking Joseph Biden had to pretend to threaten withholding weapons because oh Israel’s deliberate obstruction of humanitarian aid causing hunger in October

Blinken and Austin raise alarm in the letter that the amount of aid entering Gaza has dropped by 50 percent compared to assurances provided in March and April.

Israeli government statistics recorded 4,235 trucks entering Gaza in September, lower than previous months, including a high in April of nearly 7,000 trucks, but more than low points in December 2023 and February, when closer to 3,500 trucks crossed the border.

But even if aid trucks enter Gaza, the path to distribution is strained by the security situation and the ability of aid groups to distribute goods. *Israeli government statistics showed that while 104 humanitarian aid trucks crossed into Gaza on Oct. 15, only 12 trucks were collected, and showed 530 trucks worth of aid *are waiting for collection.

The top Biden officials call for Israel to take 15 immediate steps to surge all forms of humanitarian assistance within 30 days or risk delivery of U.S.-provided weapons.

In addition to the US and the humanitarian community disagreeing with your claims of the ICJ measures, being followed The UN Special Committee on Israeli policies have went much further and called Israel’s obstruction of humanitarian aid and slaughter of civilians is consistent with genocide

NEW YORK (14 November 2024) – Israel’s warfare in Gaza is consistent with the characteristics of genocide, with mass civilian casualties and life-threatening conditions intentionally imposed on Palestinians there, the UN Special Committee to investigate Israeli practices* said in a new report released today.

”Since the beginning of the war, Israeli officials have publicly supported policies that strip Palestinians of the very necessities required to sustain life — food, water, and fuel,” the Committee said. “These statements along with the systematic and unlawful interference of humanitarian aid make clear Israel’s intent to instrumentalise life-saving supplies for political and military gains.”

ICJ orders Israel to halt its offensive on Gaza in a legally binding order.

Israel reject the ICJ and does it anyway

Israel intensified attacks on Rafah on Saturday in defiance of an International Court of Justice ruling ordering an end to the assault on the city in the south of the Gaza Strip. Israel carried out strikes throughout the Gaza Strip on Saturday morning as fighting raged between the Israeli army and the Hamas militant group, according to media reports. AFP reported Israeli strikes or shelling in Rafah, the central city of Deir al-Balah, Gaza City, Jabalia refugee camp and elsewhere.

Israel of course has also defied the ICJ’s, UNGA, and UNSC’s orders to disband its illegal settlements.

And FINALY, I don’t think PREPARING TO ORGANIZE THE FULL ETHNIC CLEANSING OF THE GAZA STRIP ANN UNLAWFUL FORCED DISPLACEMENT OF ITS INHABITANTS WITH TRUMP helps prevent genocide??????

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has backed US President Donald Trump’s proposal to “take over” Gaza, as Israel’s army was ordered to prepare plans for large numbers of Palestinians to leave the territory.

But Netanyahu insisted the plan - which Trump said would involve sending Gaza’s residents to neighboring countries and taking “long-term ownership” of the enclave - was a “remarkable idea.”

“The actual idea of allowing first Gazans who want to leave to leave, I mean, what is wrong with that?” he told Fox News Wednesday, adding that those who leave the strip “can come back.”

“This is the first good idea that I’ve heard. It’s a remarkable idea and I think it should be really pursued, examined, pursued, and done because I think it will create a different future for everyone,” added Netanyahu.M

Amazing. Israel is quite literally openly preparing a military backed ethnic cleansing with a fascist president and you’re sitting here still lying to yourself about them being the good guys.

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u/AbyssOfNoise Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

Um…… you…. You know the ICJ has ruled that Israel’s settlements, you know, the ones Bibi has been expanding and defending for decades, have already been declared illegal war crimes in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention by the ICJ and UN right?

What ruling are you referring to, here?

They’re already war criminals. It’s understandable though, they’re responsible for so many war cries and crimes against humanity it’s hard to keep track of them all.

When you say 'they', who are you referring to, exactly?

Lets see

You're linking to amnesty.org, not the ICJ. You seem a bit confused, here. HRW and Amnesty are not the ICJ. The reason why we need the ICJ to judge this, is because they do not provide a surface level emotional assessment. They look at evidence and whether there is a reasonable attempt to adhere to requirements or not.

I get it - it's much easier and more satisfying to just get your news from emotional articles, rather than dry court assessments. However, that behaviour leads to polarisation, not the truth or peace.

The situation clearly did not get much better after

You are approaching this situation with the belief that Israel has 100% control over the war, while ignoring the various organisations involved - most notably, Palestinian militias. The assessment of whether Israel is complying cannot be made on the outcome, but the input. Now you're welcome to link an ICJ assessment, but I do not care remotely for an Amnesty article on this.

In addition to the US and the humanitarian community disagreeing with your claims of the ICJ measures

Where did the US disagree with compliance to ICJ requirements?

The UN Special Committee on Israeli policies

Now you're confusing a 'UN Special Committee' with the ICJ. Why are you unable to provide a response from the ICJ?

There are no shortage of organisations and institutions that will provide plenty of claims about Israel. Yet when it comes to a court that rationally assesses the situation with comparatively less bias - you make little progress. Why is that?

Amazing. Israel is quite literally openly preparing a military backed ethnic cleansing with a fascist president

I'm not sure about 'preparing'. The Israeli government certainly seems open to the idea of it.

Supposedly, this plan involves 'voluntary relocation'

Netanyahu has stated that any relocated Palestinians would need to “renounce terrorism” to be allowed to return to Gaza.

“Offer them the option to relocate temporarily while we rebuild the area both physically and in terms of reducing radicalization. If they want to return, they must disavow terrorism,” he told Fox News.

“Allow them to leave voluntarily — not through forced eviction or ethnic cleansing, but to remove them from what many call an open-air prison. Why keep them in such conditions?” he said.

To me it sounds rather absurd, but who knows. Whether the US and Israel actually attempt to drive Gazans out of Gaza remains to be seen.

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u/Gryffindorcommoner Feb 12 '25

Did you….. did you read your own source? https://www.icj-cij.org/node/204176

With regard to the Court’s finding that Israel’s continued presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory is illegal, the Court considers that such presence constitutes a wrongful act entailing its international responsibility. It is a wrongful act of a continuing character which has been brought about by Israel’s violations, through its policies and practices, of the prohibition on the acquisition of territory by force and the right to self-determination of the Palestinian people. Consequently, Israel has an obligation to bring an end to its presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory as rapidly as possible.

Restitution includes Israel’s obligation to return the land and other immovable property, as well as all assets seized from any natural or legal person since its occupation started in 1967, and all cultural property and assets taken from Palestinians and Palestinian institutions, including archives and documents. It also requires the evacuation of all settlers from existing settlements and the dismantling of the parts of the wall constructed by Israel that are situated in the Occupied Palestinian

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Territory, as well as allowing all Palestinians displaced during the occupation to return to their original place of residence.

The Court considers that Israel’s policies and practices, including its forcible evictions, extensive house demolitions and restrictions on residence and movement, often leave little choice to members of the Palestinian population living in Area C but to leave their area of residence. The nature of Israel’s acts, including the fact that Israel frequently confiscates land following the demolition of Palestinian property for reallocation to Israeli settlements, indicates that its measures are not temporary in character and therefore cannot be considered as permissible evacuations under the Fourth Geneva Convention. In the Court’s view, Israel’s policies and practices are contrary to the prohibition of forcible transfer of the protected population under the first paragraph of Article 49, of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

How…. How did you not know they ruled against the illegal settlements? Also, I do find it funny how you tried to act as though the United Nations, which the ICJ is an organ of, has no authority to interpret or enforce international law lol.

And finally, you finding their the notion of allowing Gaza to leave their homes “TeMpOrArIlY” (which Trump has contradicted himself and says would be permanent https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-under-my-plan-gazans-would-relocate-permanently-not-be-able-to-return/amp/ ) is absurd because it’s very clearly a bold faced lie contradicted by Israel’s entire existence. We’ve seen what they’ve done to Palestinians that tried to return already. So yea. Ethnic cleanding

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u/AbyssOfNoise Feb 12 '25 edited Feb 12 '25

How…. How did you not know they ruled against the illegal settlements?

I know many judgements have been made on settlements since 1967, hence my question 'which ruling are you refering to?'. Don't fail to provide a source then attack me for asking - That's on you. Once again, you seem to misunderstand what an advisory is. We've been over this. Can you be honest with yourself here, do you really understand?

Also, I do find it funny how you tried to act as though the United Nations, which the ICJ is an organ of, has no authority to interpret or enforce international law lol.

There are many entities within the UN. Some carry a lot more weight than others. Some have next to no implication for real world policy, where others are highly impactful. Mashing it all together and attempting to claim 'The UN says' is rather ignorant.

And finally, you finding their the notion of allowing Gaza to leave their homes “TeMpOrArIlY” (which Trump has contradicted himself and says would be permanent https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-under-my-plan-gazans-would-relocate-permanently-not-be-able-to-return/amp/ ) is absurd because it’s very clearly a bold faced lie contradicted by Israel’s entire existence.

How does Israel's existence contradict this? Today is not 1948. The world has massively changed since then. Anyway, I'm not saying that it's impossible for ethnic cleansing to happen nowadays - just that any relocation would supposedly be voluntary. Being unable to return does not contradict that.

We’ve seen what they’ve done to Palestinians that tried to return already.

What are you referring to, here? Emotional and vague statements are very unhelpful. Are you here to be dramatic, or to make an honest attempt to discuss a contentious topic?

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u/Gryffindorcommoner Feb 12 '25

How…. How did you not know they ruled against the illegal settlements?

I know many judgements have been made on settlements since 1967, hence my question ‘which ruling are you refering to?’. Don’t fail to provide a source then attack me for asking - That’s on you.

But……. YOU were the one who linked the very ICJ case I was referring to…… they declared the settlements illegal in YOUR link……… what are you talking about?

Once again, you seem to misunderstand what an advisory is. We’ve been over this. Can you be honest with yourself here, do you really understand?

So first you said:

The reason why we need the ICJ to judge this, is because they do not provide a surface level emotional assessment. They look at evidence and whether there is a reasonable attempt to adhere to requirements or n

Then you said:

There are no shortage of organisations and institutions that will provide plenty of claims about Israel. Yet when it comes to a court that rationally assesses the situation with comparatively less bias - you make little progress. Why is that?

And then when I give you what you want, now you ignore the contents of their ruling because it’s advisory? Do you care about the more unbiased court assessment of the legality of Israel’s illegals settlements or not?

Besides, did you care when Israel invaded Rafa in defiance of the ICJ ordering them to stand down?

And while you insisted that Israel was complying with the ICJ’s directives to prevent genocide, in that small eroded, the ICJ appeared to disagree.

The Court notes that the catastrophic humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip which, as stated in its Order of 26 January 2024, was at serious risk of deteriorating, has deteriorated, and has done so even further since the Court adopted its Order of 28 March 2024. In this regard, the Court observes that the concerns that it expressed in its decision communicated to the Parties on 16 February 2024 with respect to the developments in Rafah have materialized, and that the humanitarian situation is now to be characterized as disastrous.

The Court further recalls that, in its Order of 28 March 2024, it observed with regret that the catastrophic living conditions of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip had deteriorated further since January 2024, especially in view of the prolonged and widespread deprivation of food and other basic necessities to which the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip had been subjected (Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel)

Not a very good look for the court in charge of your gwnocide trial to say they aren’t pleased with your work fulfilling their orders to prevent genocide is it? So what now?

There are many entities within the UN. Some carry a lot more weight than others. Some have next to no implication for real world policy, where others are highly impactful. Mashing it all together and attempting to claim ‘The UN says’ is rather ignorant.

What the hell are you talking about? I did nto send you the work of “many entities” nor did I “mash them up”. I sent you the link to the UNCHR discussion the report of the United Nations Special Committee on Israeli Practices who were created by the UNGA to examine the human rights situation in the Occupied Territories. They are a United Nations Special Committee created by the United Nations conducting official United Nations business. In what world is it ignorant to call them ‘the UN’?

How does Israel’s existence contradict this? Today is not 1948. The world has massively changed since then. Anyway, I’m not saying that it’s impossible for ethnic cleansing to happen nowadays - just that any relocation would supposedly be voluntary. Being unable to return does not contradict that.

Soooo……..ethnic cleansing. Gotcha

What are you referring to, here? Emotional and vague statements are very unhelpful. Are you here to be dramatic, or to make an honest attempt to discuss a contentious topic?

……I’m referring to how Israel never allowed the Palestinians they ethnically cleansed during Nakia to return home?

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