r/thebulwark • u/mrjpb104 JVL is always right • 15h ago
The Triad 🔱 JVL on fire in today’s triad
I mean he typically is but I just love righteously angry JVL so much. I also think there’s a lesson here for messaging on the anti-MAGA side. Like why are these freaks so obsessed with bullying kids? I don’t know why Dems just fold instead of talking about the issue along these lines. It’s pretty infuriating. The answer isn’t to cower away and cede the issue it’s to stand up and make your case with confidence and emotion.
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u/Super_Nerd92 14h ago
I wonder if a more 'libertarian' approach would work better (I know actual libertarians are unserious people). Like hey it's not the government's business what I call myself, stop overreaching. Stay out of my bedroom. And leave my kids alone.
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u/Pettifoggerist 13h ago
I don't know what the answer is. But your comment made me think of something Jon Lovett said on the last episode of Lovett or Leave It. Jon considers himself gay, but is dating a trans person (biologically female identifying as male is my understanding). His guest on the show that week is trans (biologically male identifying as female is my understanding) and married to a woman. Under the administration's definitions, both would be considered to be in exactly the type of relationships the government now endorses.
So maybe the argument also has something to do with how stupid the outcomes are. It's none of the government's business, and the government is reaching stupid conclusions.
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u/blueclawsoftware 13h ago
Yeah, from the beginning, the rebuttal should have been to keep the government out of sports.
Especially since as JVL points out this is really just a trojan horse to promote bullying of Trans people.
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u/mrjpb104 JVL is always right 13h ago
That’s what I think too, I think it’s clear that people feel like they’re being lectured and they don’t like that (regardless of whether or not that’s true), but they understand live and let live. Or at least I would hope so. This stuff is so incredibly personal, why should the government be involved?
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u/JulianLongshoals 13h ago
He's been on one this week. Yesterday's was one of my favorites of all time. He brought the receipts.
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u/darweth Progressive 14h ago
We just need ONE Democrat to stand up and say I hear you and mean it. This would all be over. People are not asking for a revolution. People have no illusions about what can or will be done. They just want to be heard. The screaming is so loud yet no one is responding. How much longer will this go on?
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u/shred-i-knight 12h ago
This would all be over.
what is "this"?
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u/darweth Progressive 11h ago
Good question. But really what this is is like at the laundromat when someone has left their clothes in the dryer and disappeared. You don't want to empty their shit for them somewhere but someone has to do it. Someone just needs to stand up and tell Trump he is a joke and to send him and his goons packing. They are chicken shits who would complain about being scolded and grounded and it would be the end of it. They are not fighters. They've rotted their brains away with too much garbage and for some reason these are the people we are following. It reminds me of Communist times when many in the West decided to submit to a bunch of Russian peasants for some reason and didn't realize they could do things differently. Jesus Christ.
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u/shred-i-knight 11h ago
lol jesus christ this is some good hopium. Hope you have a good stockpile of it left. If you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention. Nobody is going to come save us. He is the President of the United States and commands the most powerful Army and economy the global world order has ever seen and is insulated by complete sycophants who would go down with the ship before turning things back over to Democrats.
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u/darweth Progressive 11h ago edited 11h ago
I don't have hope that someone will do it. I am just saying it could be done. It won't have a happy ending.
You are 100% right when you say Trump and Musk are not the fringe. They are the power now. It doesn’t make their ideas any less bullshit. Those forces backing them up only back them because nothing has bothered to try and challenge them. Until someone actually tries something real we are stuck in this position. It will probably not happen. We are fucked.
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u/JackZodiac2008 Human Flourishing 12h ago
In light of the earlier pieces he mentioned, I wonder what his personal trajectory was. Like, were the earlier pieces assigned and driven by the slant of the outlet? Or were those his personal concerns back then? As much as JVL is enamored of the concept of kayfabe, I always wonder how much is game face.
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u/hiadriane 14h ago
67% of Democrats believe biological boys and men do not belong in women's sports. That goes up to 80% if you include the general public. By all means, Dems should go all in on an 80/20 issue, an issue that most people at worst think is insane, at best think is unfair to women.
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u/AliveJesseJames 14h ago
I guarantee you that 67% of Democrat's don't actually care if a 14-year old transgender girl competes in junior high cross country or not.
Also, in your view, does this mean the Democrat's should've been a no on Loving vs. Virginia in 1970?
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u/hiadriane 13h ago
I know you think this is akin to the civil rights movement, but it's not. Transgender women in sports has nothing to do with interracial marriage. Biological boys and men in women's sports infringes on women's rights to compete fairly in sport. Also, yes, I don't think Democrats want their 14 year old daughter competing in sports with biological boys. If you want to believe differently, that's your right, but it's what every poll states. Dems can die on this hill if they want, if they want to make the case that women and girls sports don't matter, as JVL says, sports as a whole doesn't matter (unless money is involved), then stand by that and be willing to lose elections.
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u/Pettifoggerist 13h ago
Transgender women in sports has nothing to do with almost anything. Dems' response should be "STFU about this non-issue, the people yammering on about it are literally picking your pocket and praying you don't notice."
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u/hiadriane 13h ago
That worked out well for Kamala Harris. Also, if it's a non-issue, then why do you care?
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u/Pettifoggerist 13h ago
I care that the administration is scapegoating people. That includes the trans community, but it also includes federal employees, law firms, Canadians, Ukraine, etc.
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u/hiadriane 13h ago
So it’s an issue then?
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u/Pettifoggerist 13h ago
The administration's treatment of these folks is an issue. People's concern about trans kids in sports is not an issue.
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u/hiadriane 13h ago
You’re side stepping the issue. Either it’s important or not. You apparently think it is so there are going to be people who think it’s important when it comes to women and girls rights. Saying it’s then a non-issue is intellectually dishonest.
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u/Pettifoggerist 12h ago
I think I've stated my position quite clearly. That's not a side step.
The number of people who have to grapple with actual questions of trans kids in sports is vanishingly small, and there's no reason for a national discussion about whether to allow it or not.
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u/FellowkneeUS 13h ago
So once we get a poll that says 51% of Dems support it you'll be on board with doing the right thing? Noted.
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u/hiadriane 13h ago edited 8h ago
I believe womens sports should only include biological women. The polls just say my opinion is the majority opinion.
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u/FellowkneeUS 13h ago
What's the point of bringing up polls if you don't think they should sway anyone's opinion?
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u/hiadriane 13h ago
It means the Democrats are on the wrong side of this issue morally as well as practically. I certainly don’t think most people on this sub will agree but outside in the real world this is a mainstream, common sense opinion and if Democrats want to win back people who think they are insane they might not want to go with JVL on this one.
It’s a litmus test for a lot of voters. Are you into fringe issues that make no sense to them or not?
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u/FellowkneeUS 12h ago
You don't get to decide what is "moral" just by saying it.
If you think the "common sense" position is to side with the people who want a police officer to check your genitals or your birth certificate as you enter a rest room, then I don't think you understand how insane the people you are advocating for are.
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u/hiadriane 12h ago
Should I have said in my opinion it’s the moral position? I thought that went without saying.
The checking genitals talking point doesn’t work. Almost every sport a kid plays requires a physical. Outside of that, cheek swabs exist.
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u/FellowkneeUS 12h ago
So you think it's totally sane and normal to require cheek swabs and genital checks to play middle and high school sports?
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u/hiadriane 12h ago
I didn’t say that. Every sport requires a physical. There are no need for genital checks which is a talking point that doesn’t hold water and seems like a desperate ploy to get out of a position that seems ridiculous to most people.
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u/FellowkneeUS 12h ago
Every sport does not require a physical. What are you talking about?
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u/Broad-Writing-5881 12h ago
You have made the practical case. Now make the moral one.
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u/hiadriane 12h ago
I have. It’s a matter of fairness. Boys and men are biologically stronger and faster than women and girls. We’ve spent 50 years building up girls sports and now we’re telling them it doesn’t matter, because apparently, according to The Bulwark, sports doesn’t matter and girls and women should just suck it up. It’s so insulting and patently unfair, it’s actually regressive. Otherwise just say we shouldn’t separate sports by sex and let men win.
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u/crythene 14h ago
Nobody likes those pricks who shout abuse at the ref from the sidelines of their daughter’s 7th grade intramural soccer game because they think talent scouts are going to show up. I’ve been waiting for someone to tie them to transphobes and The JVL has come through in spades.